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Old 31st December 2008, 14:28   #16
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Quote:
some more interesting facts :

even the swift ddis and the palio mjd are quicker than the verna from 20-80 and 40-100!
U will find so many such examples.

The biggest example is the top gear test where JC races a 400bhp Evo FQ400 against some rented station wagon with less than half its power.

He then slots both cars into 5th gear and drags them from a speed which is too low for the Evo to produce any turbo boost.

Result is that the rented car starts pulling away from a car with more than twice its power and torque.

This doesnt mean the Evo is slow, its just that at that given vehicle speed and gear, the engine rpm on the Evo puts it at a disadvantage.

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Old 31st December 2008, 14:29   #17
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I would prefer 20-80 kph in 3rd gear rather than 0-100.

@ shanty: I feel you should also include 1.6 Fiesta also. Then the comparision would be appropriate. It beats them all. It is around 9.52 secs 0-100 kph.

You are comparing a Diesels & Petrols together? Unable to understand this. When you are comparing with 1.6 SX4, you also should have Verna Petrol, Fiesta 1.6. When you are comparing Diesels, verna CRDI, Fiesta , Linea should be OK.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:36   #18
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You will have to do some reading on how gear ratios, engine rpm and vehicle speed are related, to understand it better.

Shan2nu[/quote]

i guess both of us share the same name.
yeah,this is all so damn interesting man.thanks to team bhp i have acquainted myself with words like bhp,torque etc.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:40   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
I would prefer 20-80 kph in 3rd gear rather than 0-100.

@ shanty: I feel you should also include 1.6 Fiesta also. Then the comparision would be appropriate. It beats them all. It is around 9.52 secs 0-100 kph.

You are comparing a Diesels & Petrols together? Unable to understand this. When you are comparing with 1.6 SX4, you also should have Verna Petrol, Fiesta 1.6. When you are comparing Diesels, verna CRDI, Fiesta , Linea should be OK.

i guess you are right.
i simply lifted the figures from the car mag where they have given a t.d report of the linea and they have compared the figures with the other cars.
but i think we should omit the sx4 and stick to only diesels
lets include the diesel hatches too.the ddis,MJD,QJD and even the logan and ikon tdci
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:46   #20
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guess what guys!

though the dzire is marginally quicker than the ikon from 0-100kmph its a whole 3 secs slower than the ikon from 40-100 !
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:47   #21
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I drive a petrol car and i have never in my life shifted to 3rd in 20 kmph. If I do that in Swift the car will start knocking. I mostly shift to 3rd at around 40kmph. I remain at 3rd till about 70 or 80 depending on how fast I want to accelerate. The only time I would be doing a 20-80 in third/second if I am stuck in traffic and am too lazy to change gears. But than in that scenario I wouldnt be to worried about the 20-80 timing, would I?

I always thought that diesel cars have better in gear acceleration due to higher torque, and petrol cars have have higher outright accerlation due to lower torque but higher power.... Isnt this funda applicable?

Last edited by aseem : 31st December 2008 at 14:49.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:53   #22
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I usually look at 0-100kmph as well as 20-80kmph in 3rd gear and 40-100kmph in 4th gear. My car stays in the city mostly.

Also even on highway it is important as a car with a better roll on time will stay in the power band easier. A taller gear ratio means more frequent gear shifts.

From ACI I see that the Skoda Laura has the lowest roll on 20-80kmph taking 10.49secs followed by the honda CR-V 2.4MT taking 10.96s then the Corolla Altis at 10.99secs. The Civic in comparison takes 12.23 secs but is quicker in 0-100kmph taking 9.59secs. The Altis does 0-100kmph in 10.42secs.

The new Accord does 20-80kmph in 12.84secs but 0-100 is only 9.19secs.

20-80kmph is more realistic figures. 0-100kmph is hitting red line in each gear which is very rarely done. Even on highways you won't drive red lining in each gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I drive a petrol car and i have never in my life shifted to 3rd in 20 kmph. If I do that in Swift the car will start knocking. I mostly shift to 3rd at around 40kmph. I remain at 3rd till about 70 or 80 depending on how fast I want to accelerate. The only time I would be doing a 20-80 in third/second if I am stuck in traffic and am too lazy to change gears. But than in that scenario I wouldnt be to worried about the 20-80 timing, would I?

I always thought that diesel cars have better in gear acceleration due to higher torque, and petrol cars have have higher outright accerlation due to lower torque but higher power.... Isnt this funda applicable?
That's because the swift has very tall gear ratios resulting in knocking when you shift to 3rd at 20kmph. Try the same in a Santro or an Optra 1.8 and the car will pull effortlessly.

Diesel car's have better in gear acceleration when they are in the power band that is turbo spooled up. 3rd gear 20kmph will be less than 2000rpm in verna and turbo won't have spooled up. till it does the acceleration will be very slow after which it will shoot off.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 31st December 2008 at 14:56.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:54   #23
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Quote:
yeah,this is all so damn interesting man
Ok let me make it clear how all 3 are related.

Consider 1 car with 100bhp@6000rpm. It has a 3rd gear ratio of 1.5:1 and a final drive ratio of 3.8:1. Wheel size is 195/60 R14.

Now at 20kmph in 3rd, this cars engine will be revving at 1039rpm.

Lets say it does 20-80 in 15 secs.

Now take the same car change the 3rd gear ratio to 2.2:1 while keeping everything else identical.

But even though its the exact same car tested before, the shorter 3rd gear will now let this car's engine revv at 1507rpm at 20kmph.

We know that an engine will produce more torque and power as the rpm increases. So this 468rpm increase in engine revvs will oviously make this car gain an advantage compared to its earlier run where it had to start accelerating from 1039rpm.

This is how gearing is related to engine rpm and vehicle speed.

When Hyundai chose the gear ratios for the Verna, they prob wanted the car to perform better from 40-100 in 3rd. This is just a design choice which a manufacturer makes.

If 20-80 in 3rd is more important to you than 40-100 or anything other roll on speed, then you buy a car which has been designed for it.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 31st December 2008 at 15:01.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:56   #24
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I think we should consider them all.

0-100 tells us id we can get ahead of the crowd at the traffic signal.

The other measures tell us how, for instance, the overtaking will be when we need a burst of speed.
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Old 31st December 2008, 14:56   #25
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If we r talking about day to day driving conditions, then none of them really matter. Most of us don't push to 80 on 3rd gear. Maybe sometimes but not always.
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Old 31st December 2008, 15:00   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I drive a petrol car and i have never in my life shifted to 3rd in 20 kmph. If I do that in Swift the car will start knocking. I mostly shift to 3rd at around 40kmph. I remain at 3rd till about 70 or 80 depending on how fast I want to accelerate. The only time I would be doing a 20-80 in third/second if I am stuck in traffic and am too lazy to change gears. But than in that scenario I wouldnt be to worried about the 20-80 timing, would I?

I always thought that diesel cars have better in gear acceleration due to higher torque, and petrol cars have have higher outright accerlation due to lower torque but higher power.... Isnt this funda applicable?

Aseem, swift doesn't knock in 3rd @ 20 kmph. When i'm lazy i don't downshift, it manages quite decently. & shifting at 30kmph is absolutely fine. Why all the way to 40?
Even i thought so about diesel cars, can anyone clarify ?
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Old 31st December 2008, 15:03   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrit7 View Post
Aseem, swift doesn't knock in 3rd @ 20 kmph. When i'm lazy i don't downshift, it manages quite decently. & shifting at 30kmph is absolutely fine. Why all the way to 40?
Even i thought so about diesel cars, can anyone clarify ?
I have a fairly peppy driving style. If I shifted to 3rd at 20kmph it would take forever for Swift to reach decent speeds. I am not arguing whether its theoritically possible or not, but thats just not my driving style. If you are at 3rd @ 20kmph than probably by the time you are on 50 you'd be in 5th gear. I find the Swift to be lethargically slow to go from 90-120 if not at 4th, imagine what it would be like to go from 50-100 in Swift at 5th gear.
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Old 31st December 2008, 15:09   #28
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better 20-80 is most important. in diesels, nil turbo lag and great low end torque will ensure great driveability.
the linea is a perfect example of 'driveable' car whereas the verna, though powerful, has lots of turbo lag.
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Old 31st December 2008, 15:09   #29
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Here are the figures for NHC (the 77BHP I-DSI wonder):
  • 0-60 KPH (secs) 5.23
  • 0-100 KPH (secs) 13.11
  • 20-80 KPH in 3rd gear (secs) 13.56
Quote:
Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
CAR 0-100KMPH 20-80KMPH(in 3rd gear)
sx4 12.10 secs 13.75secs
fiesta duratorq 17.13secs 12.52secs

verna CRDI 11.35secs 12.34secs

linea MJD 15.04secs 11.86secs
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
From ACI I see that the Skoda Laura has the lowest roll on 20-80kmph taking 10.49secs followed by the honda CR-V 2.4MT taking 10.96s then the Corolla Altis at 10.99secs. The Civic in comparison takes 12.23 secs but is quicker in 0-100kmph taking 9.59secs. The Altis does 0-100kmph in 10.42secs.

The new Accord does 20-80kmph in 12.84secs but 0-100 is only 9.19secs.
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Old 31st December 2008, 15:11   #30
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i think cars having better 20-80 kph timings would suggest that the engine has strong midrange??
holds true for linea...
one more thing would'nt doing 20-80 kph in 3rd gear actually reduce FE?
anyone has 20-80 kph figures for vRS?

Last edited by ashish22 : 31st December 2008 at 15:12.
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