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Old 6th January 2009, 00:00   #76
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I still disagree with this 20-80 timing in 3rd. Only a very lazy or a very stupid driver would try that in normal circumstances.

As Shan2nu keeps saying, the only point of this statistic is to tell you how the car's gear ratios are spaced out. Most manufacturers sell cars in India with really tall gear ratios, and so you're forced to downshift to get any decent performance out of the car.



In that case why not just get an automatic?
well..what would you call drivers who attempt an 0-100 in normal circumstances?is it possible under normal circumstances?
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Old 6th January 2009, 07:05   #77
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well..what would you call drivers who attempt an 0-100 in normal circumstances?is it possible under normal circumstances?
I'd call them alive! Haha!

I did a 0-100 two days ago, taking off from a traffic signal on the Western Express Highway here in Mumbai. While such occasions are rare, considering that its not safe to be hitting 100 on most city roads, it is possible once in a while.

Also, God forbid if one was faced with an emergency and urgently needed to get somewhere, that would call for a lot of 0-100 type acceleration.
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Old 6th January 2009, 09:06   #78
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For me my car has to perform no matter what situation I am in 0 to 100 (drag) or its 20-80-100-140 (racing) or slow n steady city driving without any compromise, and do I have a car which is capable, well yes I do.

I might never get onto a drag strip ever nor will I ever do any kinda racing, but it sure does feel good when you know you have a car which can do it given the situation and still be really comfy to drive on Bangalore roads with all the insane traffic around you .

So ultimately its not the 0-100 nor the 20-80 acceleration for me and probably for most car owners (sorry for generalizing) , the passion of owning a car that you love to be in the driver seat all the time will matter the most!!!
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Old 6th January 2009, 10:42   #79
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Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
you are wrong my friend.
the verna is slow even from 40-100 compared to the linea.the VGT in linea kicks in at 1400 rpm compared to 1900 rpm in verna.so even though the power and torque in the verna are better the in gear acceleration of the linea makes for much better drivability in daily running especially when you are driving the medium speed city conditions.same applies for the fiesta too where in the turbo kicks in even earlier than 1400rpm.

my friend... please explain what's the point of VGT opening at 1400 rpm in linea when Verna's turbo will kick in around 40 kmph or may be v close to 1900 rpm mark. once the turbo kicks in, it is way faster than linea for sure. noway linea will come even close to Verna in 40-100 kmph mark. No Offense: but i remember my friends who owns verna and getz, how brutally they smokes 1.3 multijet cars. me myself do it sometimes in Elantra, infact at 40-50 kmph i just engage 3rd gear and blast and the car becomes a killer machine and elantra crdi and verna crdi and getz crdi have almost the identical torque figures.

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Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
the purpose of this thread is only to discuss the outright acceleration versus in gear acceleration and how many of us in daily driving get a chance for out right 0-100 kmph acceleration.
yup exactly.



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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I'd call them alive! Haha!

I did a 0-100 two days ago, taking off from a traffic signal on the Western Express Highway here in Mumbai. While such occasions are rare, considering that its not safe to be hitting 100 on most city roads, it is possible once in a while.

Also, God forbid if one was faced with an emergency and urgently needed to get somewhere, that would call for a lot of 0-100 type acceleration.
haha how many times you will stall the car to zero... lolz mate, in the traffic you need some quick acceleration bet. somewhere around 30-70-80-100 kmph. Remember Verna? 0-100 kmph ... ok good. now 40-140 kmph? Killer. 0-40 kmph... slow slow. as someone said linea has a turbo kickin at 1400 rpm, it is much more easier to drive at normal driving conditions. it all depends on the driver to driver, if he knows the power band for each gear of his car, then he can be really fast. Linea have different power band, swift has different and verna has different.

Last edited by Gangsta : 6th January 2009 at 10:55.
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Old 6th January 2009, 11:55   #80
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0-100 doesnt represent drivebility as it is done using gears which provide maximum accleration, mostly the 1st and 2nd gear (probably third depending on the car) red-lining in each. Many cars having impressive 0-100 are sluggish in crawling speeds.
It will be interesting to see figures in '10 to 30 in 2nd gear', which is not part of standards tests right now. This might represent good drivability in city traffic
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Old 6th January 2009, 12:18   #81
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It will be interesting to see figures in '10 to 30 in 2nd gear'
Absolutely agree, or even some sort of test that does not involve depressing the gas pedal more than half way. Hard to define, I suppose it would be have to 'note exceeding n,000 RPM. This would define real, everyday driving.

Pure, full-out acceleration is something that only people who want high fuel bills use regularly. I've got no time for people who power away from a signal, when they can see there is another red, or a traffic queue, just a few hundred meters ahead and they have to brake hard. On the other hand, acceleration can sometimes get one out of (as well as into) trouble.

Knowing that one's car can produce the goods, though, is part of the pride of ownership. I'm not (I hope!) too much of a crazy driver, but, given a free choice and available funds I'd say that a car ought to do 0-60 (MPH, sorry, I still find the kph hard to think in) in under 10 seconds --- and they say our Swift VDIs are 'powerful'! What is it? 13-point-something seconds? Of course, a good diesel gives us something else for our money; not pure acceleration, but reliable pulling power
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Old 6th January 2009, 13:03   #82
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
what 20-80 kph suggests is that suppose you are travelling at 50 kph in 3rd gear and you have to slow down to 20 kph due to some reasons. in such situations, if you are in a car with good driveability, then you dont have to downshift and can simply press the throttle and move. this is a boon in city as fewer gear changes means you are more relaxed.
where in city traffic will i get a chance to floor my throttle to check the 0-100 performance? at signal lights, not everytime we are at the lead position.

so it not about me driving at 20 kph in 3rd gear but in everyday driving, situation mentioned above can arise many times, so i feel driveability is more important in my car. 0-100 performance are valid only for sports cars.
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Not really Shanty. What Gangsta meant is - Verna will smoke Linea in 40-100 in 3rd gear, where its in the right power band.

0-100 is unquestionably an indicator for outright performance. It need not be a drag - it could be a traffic signal, in slow moving traffic or on highway. A car with a better 0-100 can outrace the other car. The driver just have to just know the right rev band/gear for the car and slot it.

By driveability, we mean the ability to drive with reasonable performance without frequent gear shifts. As Linea has better figures for 20-80 in 3rd, and 40-100 in 4th gear compared to Verna, we can conclude that its a better car in driveability (in city and mostly even in highways)
hmm... i guess you answered your original question anyway!
I agree with both of you regarding driveability being more important for city driving, and hence 20-80 seems to be more pertinent to me.
However, driveabiltiy has two aspects: one is to minimize downshifting, and the other is reasonable performance in the same gear.
The WagonR and Santro immensely fulfill the 1st aspect. For instance, if I find an obstrucion ahead, I can slow down till 25 kmph in 4th gear on my WagonR and avoid a gear change. This is a big boon
However, if I expect performance in the same gear from my WagonR, it is a different story---it takes forever to reach 80 without a gear shift. So for most of the sedate drivers, the first aspect is sufficient for our daily grind.
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Old 6th January 2009, 13:34   #83
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
please explain what's the point of VGT opening at 1400 rpm in linea when Verna's turbo will kick in around 40 kmph or may be v close to 1900 rpm mark. once the turbo kicks in, it is way faster than linea for sure. noway linea will come even close to Verna in 40-100 kmph mark. No Offense: but i remember my friends who owns verna and getz, how brutally they smokes 1.3 multijet cars. me myself do it sometimes in Elantra, infact at 40-50 kmph i just engage 3rd gear and blast and the car becomes a killer machine and elantra crdi and verna crdi and getz crdi have almost the identical torque figures.
Verna has a greater turbo lag as compared to Linea. Linea has a pleasant and surprising linear power delivery, so its good for driveability specially in city traffic where sometimes Verna's turbo lag demands a lower gear. This is not good for driveability in city. This is why Linea will be better for city driving. Its just not possible to do 0-100 daily in traffic conditions and also it wont be safe. Verna is explosive in power delivery, and once it does it pulls very addictively, no doubt, but this feature is not a driver's best friend in case where driveability is concerned.
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Old 6th January 2009, 14:01   #84
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To me 0 to 100 is just a sales trick. If it is outright performance, it has to be the 1/4 mile (0 to 400m) and 1 km (5/8 mile) timings. This is what the streetracers worldwide regard as performance.

Drivability, is the in 2nd gear (10 to 35 to 60), in 3rd gear (20 to 50 to 80) and in 4th gear (30 to 65 to 100 kmph) timings. Just imagine, the no of times you might have found yourself in the wrong gear in the city traffic.
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Old 6th January 2009, 14:54   #85
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20-80 in 3rd gear ... LOL!

Why would anyone do that?
I would call such a person lazy and stupid.

Lazy, because he is not downshifting when it is really required so (3rd gear to 2nd gear when doing 20), and stupid because he is trying to accelerate from 20 to 80 sticking to just one gear (3rd gear).

If you really want to maximize fuel efficiency per km - then I agree that you would try to take your vehicle to 20 while being on 3rd gear.
But if you wanto accelerate (and thats what is being done here) - then why would you start at 3rd gear?
Why not shift to 2nd gear - or even better 1st gear at 20 - and then accelerate annd shift gears accordingly.

My take on 20-80 timing is :
It makes sense to time this if you are a sporty driver - in that case the 20-80 should be THRU the gears - and not in a particular gear.
If you are a sedate driver - then in any case 20-80 timings don't make any difference - so why bother?
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Old 6th January 2009, 16:14   #86
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i guess aaggoswamy has put forth things in a very sinple way.
as the turbo kicks in earlier in linea the driveabilty in city will be better compared to verna whereas the latter is bound to be better on the highways especially on a straight line.
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Old 6th January 2009, 16:18   #87
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Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I'd call them alive! Haha!

I did a 0-100 two days ago, taking off from a traffic signal on the Western Express Highway here in Mumbai. While such occasions are rare, considering that its not safe to be hitting 100 on most city roads, it is possible once in a while.

Also, God forbid if one was faced with an emergency and urgently needed to get somewhere, that would call for a lot of 0-100 type acceleration.
i love 0-100 drags on the highways too.
but its possible only at a signal and that too if you are heading the pack.
other wise with our kind of uncivilised traffic and lane cutting the drivers who are alive are often found dead.
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Old 9th January 2009, 23:36   #88
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with our kind of uncivilised traffic and lane cutting the drivers who are alive are often found dead.
You hit the nail on the head and I should add here that either they are found dead or crippled especially when not wearing the seat belts.
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Old 27th March 2009, 14:38   #89
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i guess the trend is coming where in engines will be designed more for driveability and not for out right performance eg: linea,i20,fabia.
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Old 27th March 2009, 15:32   #90
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Driveability is the most popular excuse among slow cars
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