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Old 2nd January 2009, 13:42   #16
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Re: tyres, saw three ANHCs ready for delivery at the TVM showroom all shod with Michelin Energy tyres. Bound to be better than the GoodYear junk they used to come with.
Oh, don't be so happy just yet. They're still shod with multiple brands variating amongst the above mentioned Michelin's, Goodyear GT3/NCT5's and MRF's.

Michelin was claiming before the launch of the car that it's going to be exclusively on their tyres but seems like they got surprised by the outcome too!
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Old 2nd January 2009, 13:49   #17
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It says: "Besides this, the new City can return 14 kpl even in traffic and deliver decent 150 kph plus performance when you demand it."

14kmpl in traffic on ANHC? Is there something radically different with this i-Vtec? Even dealers don't claim that figure for 100 bhp NHC Vtec.

Had a brief conversation with one G3HC owner. Done 3K Kms.
He said he keeps the AC 100% on as the interiors are built keeping in mind the windows rarely get opened in these cars. He said he was getting 11.7-12 kmpl in city traffic ( vadodara ) and on the NE-1 ( National Expressway 1 ) between A'bad and Vadodara, he was getting around 15-15.5 kmpl. Speeds never cross 110-115 kmph according to him.

The FE is just about average for this class. Its not that great.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd January 2009 at 13:50. Reason: Typing error.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 14:09   #18
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
It says: "Besides this, the new City can return 14 kpl even in traffic and deliver decent 150 kph plus performance when you demand it."

14kmpl in traffic on ANHC? Is there something radically different with this i-Vtec? Even dealers don't claim that figure for 100 bhp NHC Vtec. What I heard from Honda dealer is that, NHC Vtec returns 11-12 in traffic and 14-16 on highway.
Hi RX135,

What you heard from the dealer is correct. I have a NHC Vtec plus (2nd gen), got it on road on 5-Nov-08, almost 2 months now. I have been steadily getting 12.8-13 kmpl (normal petrol) within city and 14kmpl in the highway, all this with 100% AC on and doing 100-130 (on highways only!). Have done around 2295 kms till now.

What the dealers claim in B'lore is, the ANHC (3rd gen) would give around ~12kmpl within city limits, which again I feel is a little far-fetched, owing to 116 horses in it.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 19:36   #19
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

The FE is just about average for this class. Its not that great.
Buddy what do you expect from a VTEC engine ? 12km/l with 100 % A/c IMO is quite good. I dont understand why you expecting more FE when other cars in the class give lesser to closer to ANHC s FE figures.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
It does.

5) High speed stability.
6) Boot space.
7) High seating position than G3HC.
Buddy, I disagree with above points.

5. I had a brief TD of the ANHC and would say its got good highway manners. First of all have you TD the ANHC??
6. Boot space is equal . SX4 has 505 litres and ANHC has around same boot space.
7. Person sitting in middle of rear seat in SX4 will feel uncomfy due to the bulge. But agree seating position is quite lower in ANHC.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 21:46   #20
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Buddy what do you expect from a VTEC engine ? 12km/l with 100 % A/c IMO is quite good. I dont understand why you expecting more FE when other cars in the class give lesser to closer to ANHC s FE figures.

1. I had a brief TD of the ANHC and would say its got good highway manners. First of all have you TD the ANHC??
2. Boot space is equal . SX4 has 505 litres and ANHC has around same boot space.
3. Person sitting in middle of rear seat in SX4 will feel uncomfy due to the bulge. But agree seating position is quite lower in ANHC.
I was pinpointing to the fact that there is nothing that exclusive about FE. Others manage same with not much difference. The Honda service dealer nearer to my home ( earlier it used to be Fiat, but shifted to Honda ) told me that SX4 has 102 bhp, we have 116, and SX4 FE is 11 in city, we offer 14 in bumper to bumper traffic.
So came out with this conversation. No offense meant.

1) Yes, not TD, but a nice drive from an old friend with whom I met in college. SX4 has advantage because of tyres. G3HC needs ugrent upgrade of rubber.

2) I am now finding out this. SX4 is simply massive here. EDIT : Yes, confirmed. They are same. But SX4 is more usable than G3HC.

3) SX4 is best utilized as four seater. Baleno is different here.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd January 2009 at 21:48.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:11   #21
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I was pinpointing to the fact that there is nothing that exclusive about FE. Others manage same with not much difference. The Honda service dealer nearer to my home ( earlier it used to be Fiat, but shifted to Honda ) told me that SX4 has 102 bhp, we have 116, and SX4 FE is 11 in city, we offer 14 in bumper to bumper traffic.
So came out with this conversation. No offense meant.

1) Yes, not TD, but a nice drive from an old friend with whom I met in college. SX4 has advantage because of tyres. G3HC needs ugrent upgrade of rubber.

2) I am now finding out this. SX4 is simply massive here. EDIT : Yes, confirmed. They are same. But SX4 is more usable than G3HC.

3) SX4 is best utilized as four seater. Baleno is different here.
1) I am not sure I got you, have you driven ANHC?

Agreed it needs a tyre upgrade, but with tyre upgrade dont be surprised if City takes to corners better than SX4 due to lower CG and ground clearance.

2) They are the same but SX4 is more usable? Care to elaborate and substantiate the basis of your conclusion.

3) I didnt understand where Baleno came in the picture. SX4 can comfortably sit 4 as opposed to ANHC that can sit 5 due to the rear seat. Regarding high seating in SX4. I dont really see it as a pro. That way those owning Santro would say we are the greatest in riding position and those driving Civic would think they are the worst off with a low driving position. Whereas ingress etc are easy with high seating cars, but all driver inspiring cars have low seating.

ANHC definitely lacks in equipment level when compared to SX4, what makes up for it are the looks and engine of the car. Than again SX4 lacks in equipment level to i20. What one needs to understand is that tts not sheer VFM thats a deciding factor in this segment, else SX4 would have beaten the sales of NHC/ANHC, so far that has not happened.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:19   #22
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starting to see more ANHCs in Mumbai now. Somehow, the ANHC doesn't stand out - appears small and dimunitive from the rear three quarters/profile. Doesn't have the street cred of, say, the SX4 or even the NHC.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:22   #23
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
1) I am not sure I got you, have you driven ANHC?
Agreed it needs a tyre upgrade, but with tyre upgrade dont be surprised if City takes to corners better than SX4 due to lower CG and ground clearance.

2) They are the same but SX4 is more usable? Care to elaborate and substantiate the basis of your conclusion.

3) I didnt understand where Baleno came in the picture. SX4 can comfortably sit 4 as opposed to ANHC that can sit 5 due to the rear seat. Regarding high seating in SX4. I dont really see it as a pro. That way those owning Santro would say we are the greatest in riding position and those driving Civic would think they are the worst off with a low driving position. Whereas ingress etc are easy with high seating cars, but all driver inspiring cars have low seating.

4) ANHC definitely lacks in equipment level when compared to SX4, what makes up for it are the looks and engine of the car. Than again SX4 lacks in equipment level to i20. What one needs to understand is that tts not sheer VFM thats a deciding factor in this segment, else SX4 would have beaten the sales of NHC/ANHC, so far that has not happened.
1) Yes, I have driven it. Better bottom end than our Baleno and also SX4. That is what I felt.
I wont be surprised. SX4 chassis is good, but the body is high. It makes up for this with the tyres. G3HC has lower GC ( unpardonable crime from any manufacturer as far as India is concerned ). But will City have better rubber coming off as stock ?

2) Yes, Kiran motors ( Maruti Suzuki dealer in Vadodara ) and the " new "Honda showroom are side by side. Comapred both the SX4 and G3HC side by side. Came to this conclusion. Agian both of them are better than our Baleno.

3) Baleno is a car I think we all are very familiar. So Baleno came just as reference. It is there in this post also. Regarding high seating position, IMO, its a positive point. Thank you but I know a few concepts. Another problem of low slung car is that headlights even from motorcycles at low beam hits you in the eye. I dont like this. I have driven Baleno on highways more and this problem is more prominent.

4) I would like to say that IMO, all Honda cars are over rated. If we go by the sales standards, then Palio is not a good small car but Alto is the best. It is not this way. Agreed that engine is great, but take G1HC VTEC and it is more revv happy than this. This is a very long storke motor, so its not like G1HC VTEC or even Esteem in this matter. Looks are very subjective. For me G3HC is a short cut.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd January 2009 at 22:29.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:29   #24
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I was pinpointing to the fact that there is nothing that exclusive about FE. Others manage same with not much difference. The Honda service dealer nearer to my home ( earlier it used to be Fiat, but shifted to Honda ) told me that SX4 has 102 bhp, we have 116, and SX4 FE is 11 in city, we offer 14 in bumper to bumper traffic.
So came out with this conversation. No offense meant.

1) Yes, not TD, but a nice drive from an old friend with whom I met in college. SX4 has advantage because of tyres. G3HC needs ugrent upgrade of rubber.

2) I am now finding out this. SX4 is simply massive here. EDIT : Yes, confirmed. They are same. But SX4 is more usable than G3HC.

3) SX4 is best utilized as four seater. Baleno is different here.


No offence were taken buddy. I dont think you should expect FE of 14-15km/l with 100 % A/c in Indian bumper to bumper traffic in an petrol sedan . 12km/l from any sedan is more than acceptable for most of them.
Also didnt know why you deviated from the topic in your reply ( in bold)


1. Well i hope you have really tested it on high speeds to justify your comment that it doesnt score over SX4 in high speed stability.
2. ANHC might have a narrow entry compared to SX4. But how do you find SX4 boot massive when the boot space is same for both cars???
3. As Aseem pointed out from where did Baleno come in?? If rear seat has space for 3 then why utilise it only for 2 in the rear??? I think you need to be clearer to justify your comments.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:35   #25
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Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
No offence were taken buddy. I dont think you should expect FE of 14-15km/l with 100 % A/c in Indian bumper to bumper traffic in an petrol sedan . 12km/l from any sedan is more than acceptable for most of them.

1. Well i hope you have really tested it on high speeds to justify your comment that it doesnt score over SX4 in high speed stability.
2. ANHC might have a narrow entry compared to SX4. But how do you find SX4 boot massive when the boot space is same for both cars???
3. As Aseem pointed out from where did Baleno come in?? If rear seat has space for 3 then why utilise it only for 2 in the rear??? I think you need to be clearer to justify your comments.
1) Drove upto 80 kmph. Was not very confidence inspiring.
2) I think I did EDIT after I realized my mistake. I was mistaken by the looks as the SX4 has less suspension intrusion and the entry made it look massive. I revisited the specs and I have updated the post.
3) Refer to http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1114379-post23.html (Honda City BSM COTY 2009) where I specify that I brought Baleno only as a reference as it is a car we all are very familiar here.
About rear seats, the SX4 has comfortable seating only for 2. Space is not an issue but the seat design is an issue. So made the statement. Not that the third person cant seat. And for reference brought Baleno to compare the rear seat of SX4 with it to give a more appropriate idea about the rear seat design of SX4.
I hope I have clarified my point.


I was just attempting to show my thoughts that I found G3HC to be over-rated and there were other contenders for BSM COTY who were eqaully well engineered. Its just my opinion.
I am sorry if my post were found off topic or offensive.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd January 2009 at 22:49.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:44   #26
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Yes, I have driven it. Better bottom end than our Baleno and also SX4. That is what I felt.
I wont be surprised. SX4 chassis is good, but the body is high. It makes up for this with the tyres. G3HC has lower GC ( unpardonable crime from any manufacturer as far as India is concerned ). But will City have better rubber coming off as stock ?
I am not debating which is the cheaper or more loaded car. Honda can never compete with Maruti on VFM, just like Maruti cant compete with Honda on quality and engineering. Therefore dont expect better tyres on stock City. For that matter even Civic is under tyred as opposed to SX4.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
2) Yes, Kiran motors ( Maruti Suzuki dealer in Vadodara ) and the " new "Honda showroom are side by side. Comapred both the SX4 and G3HC side by side. Came to this conclusion. Agian both of them are better than our Baleno.
Are your conclusion based on a visual assesment of both cars side by side. In either case, I take your word for it as this is not a deciding factor since both cars have sufficient boot space.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
3) Baleno is a car I think we all are very familiar. So Baleno came just as reference. It is there in this post also. Regarding high seating position, IMO, its a positive point. Thank you but I know a few concepts. Another problem of low slung car is that headlights even from motorcycles at low beam hits you in the eye. I dont like this. I have driven Baleno on highways more and this problem is more prominent.
I am not debating the benefits on a high seated car position. But true drivers car will always be low slung. So its not really a pro, as than WagonR, Santro etc become better than Civic using this logic. Its an individual choice, lets leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
4) I would like to say that IMO, all Honda cars are over rated. If we go by the sales standards, then Palio is not a good small car but Alto is the best. It is not this way. Agreed that engine is great, but take G1HC VTEC and it is more revv happy than this. This is a very long storke motor, so its not like G1HC VTEC or even Esteem in this matter. Looks are very subjective. For me G3HC is a short cut
Please compare cars across segments to make a logical argument. Dont compare a Pailo with 800 or Alto, they are segment apart and ppl that buy Alto dont buy Palio as they cant afford it SIMPLE! Want to compare Palio with Swift or Getz, and we will have a clear winner. Even though Swift is more expensive than Palio, it outsells it.

Ppl that buy NHC or AHNC shell out more to buy it over SX4. They are more than capable of buying SX4, but buying NHC/ANHC says something... doesnt it? Thats the logic I am trying to make when I talk about sales. Of course a manfacturer makes car in the end to drive sales, if the car or marketing strategy cant achieve that, than they need to relook in to what they are doing. A manfacturer that can outsell its competitors and still have the highest margins speaks volumes about the product. Dont all compaines want to be in this position?

Agreed the new i-Vtec pales in driving pleasure when compared to OHC Vtec. Just the same way that Baleno engine was more driver freindly than SX4 M-Series engine. However we are comparing ANHC with SX4 not with OHC Vtec.

I dont deny for a second that Honda takes us for a ride and charges a premium, but their engineering and quality surpasses MUL by far. Thats the sole reason they are able to be in their position. Till the day Hyundai, Toyota or MUL bring more refined products to compete in C/D segments, this trend would remain.

Peace!

Last edited by aseem : 2nd January 2009 at 22:58.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:47   #27
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I was just attempting to show my thoughts that I found G3HC to be over-rated and there were other contenders for BOTY ( BSM COTY ) who were eqaully well engineered. Its just my opinion.
I am sorry if my post were found off topic or offensive.

I dont think they were offensive. You are free to have an opinion . People Any idea COTY from ACI and Overdrive ??
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Old 2nd January 2009, 22:51   #28
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Ridiculously overpriced car & now its the COTY 2009. IMO its another media rubbish and totally undeserved accreditation for the ANHC!

Probably the OHC owners would be able to comment on the 116ps that Honda claims for the ANHC i-Vtec. My TD of the ANHC left me completely disappointed. The FE that Honda claims for the ANHC also seems to be a gimmick!
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Old 2nd January 2009, 23:04   #29
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Tata gives you a fully loaded Vista for the cost of a base 1.2 Petrol i20... isnt that good enough?
A star is nothing but crap... a 4 lakh rupee hatch with rear seats designed for monkeys with short legs, a feeble 3 cylinder motor and styling that looks like it was inspired by an infant's toy!
I never expected this from BSM... and for the first time I have to say that the choices look influenced. Credit crunch takes its toll.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 23:08   #30
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At least the Indian car buying public don't think so. When other in the segment are happy to touch 4 figure mark, ANHC sold, 2972 in Dec 08 !!!
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Ridiculously overpriced car & now its the COTY 2009. IMO its another media rubbish and totally undeserved accreditation for the ANHC!

Last edited by diabloo : 2nd January 2009 at 23:12.
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