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Old 2nd January 2009, 23:12   #31
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Tata gives you a fully loaded Vista for the cost of a base 1.2 Petrol i20... isnt that good enough?
A star is nothing but crap... a 4 lakh rupee hatch with rear seats designed for monkeys with short legs, a feeble 3 cylinder motor and styling that looks like it was inspired by an infant's toy!
I never expected this from BSM... and for the first time I have to say that the choices look influenced. Credit crunch takes its toll.
I am not a fan of A-Star and really appreciate Tata's attempt with Vista. They have come a long way from their Indica V1 platform. But Tata cars are not selling as much right now. A 4 year old Swift still has a waiting period after being priced higher than Vista (more margins for MUL). Tata's are having a tough time in todays economic crisis, their yoy looks dismal. A-Star on the other hand would do well in its segment.... Thats what matters to the manfacturers bottom line at the end of the day. Its not about who has the most VFM product, its all about the number of units you can sell. Shouldnt Hyundai be happy that they have high margins with i-10, 1.2 ltr petrol engine, but still they outsell Indica Vista which is a more VFM/cheaper proposition. Tata need to work on their image and finishing quality in order to compete in todays market.
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Old 2nd January 2009, 23:45   #32
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At least the Indian car buying public don't think so. When other in the segment are happy to touch 4 figure mark, ANHC sold, 2972 in Dec 08 !!!
Public turn a blind eye to everything once they see certain badges on these cars. When this attitude changes in the Indian Automobile market we will see more cars which are more worth the price with loads of features. Till then it would be only us wasting space & time if we want to discuss the sales numbers.

COTY award for ANHC is ridiculous! Leaves a stinking feeling in my mind about BS Motoring being more biased or forcefully biased by the ruling International credit crisis.
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Old 3rd January 2009, 00:41   #33
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With the amount of sales that has occured, and also the anticipation that has been created(5 months waiting period and all)-maybe the Dzire Diesel could also have been considered!
I agree to this. I'm surprised DZire hasn't made it to the top.

I agree it doesn't look like a very polished product, and that the boot is a force-fit, but they couldn't have ignored cars based on the looks, can they? In what way is a Vista [which has made it to the top 5] a better product than DZire?
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Old 3rd January 2009, 08:07   #34
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anachronix, if the car was junk, surely those 3000 odd people who bought the thing will start complaining all over and the effect will be seen.

Everybody says that Honda is overpriced and are really junk cars. When you see the sales numbers, you say people go for the badge. Do you truly believe that the buying public are that moronic? If the Civic was overpriced (as many claim), it still outsold everything in its class until the Altis came along. A month later, the Altis was selling lower numbers than the Civic.

The ANHC came along, it wiped the floor with everything else and is still doing so. You'd think such a waste of a car would actually make it's stupid customers make some noises and create a wave of negative publicity through word of mouth that would drag the sales down. Funny how that isn't happening.

Fact is, Honda provides bullet proof reliability, low running costs and engines which provide fuel economy and power in a good balance. People apparently are morons to like all that and should instead go with cars which come bundled with rattlesnakes.
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Old 3rd January 2009, 09:39   #35
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1) Everybody says that Honda is overpriced and are really junk cars. When you see the sales numbers, you say people go for the badge. Do you truly believe that the buying public are that moronic? If the Civic was overpriced (as many claim), it still outsold everything in its class until the Altis came along. A month later, the Altis was selling lower numbers than the Civic.

2) The ANHC came along, it wiped the floor with everything else and is still doing so. You'd think such a waste of a car would actually make it's stupid customers make some noises and create a wave of negative publicity through word of mouth that would drag the sales down. Funny how that isn't happening.

3) Fact is, Honda provides bullet proof reliability, low running costs and engines which provide fuel economy and power in a good balance. People apparently are morons to like all that and should instead go with cars which come bundled with rattlesnakes.
1) Overpriced and hence we call it under-equipped, but not really junk cars. They offer the second best engines after Toyota IMO.
And again if sales are anything to go by, lets say Swift is much better than palio and offers bullet proof reliability, low running costs and engine that provide FE and power in a good balance. Sales are not the perfect parameter to judge a car. Sonata Embara, Suzuki Baleno are another good examples to prove that high sales = excellent product is not always applicable.

Can you please share the source of data regarding the sales of Altis and Civic ? You can PM me the link and I will check it out.

2) Certainly, India is badge crazy, specially above the small car segment. In the small car market, badge wont sell much ( it still affects ). But above that, things change. Sonata Embara is a nice car with better A.S & S. than VW group ( includes VW and Skoda ), but VW cars sell more. The reason is badge. Elantra also faced the same problem.

3) What about recalls in Rs. 15lakh + accord ? What about not offering ABS and airbags for so long in G2HC ? Others also manage to give bullet proof reliability, low running cost and a good balance of power and FE.
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Old 3rd January 2009, 09:48   #36
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People apparently are morons to like all that and should instead go with cars which come bundled with rattlesnakes.
They do, and the car is called the swift Dzire
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Old 3rd January 2009, 12:08   #37
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Of course, City should always win most of the awards. However, I personally am of the opinion that these mag awards are not worth the paper they are printed on. Reg. City, I am tempted to consider AT City as a replacement for my wife's Corsa. What is holding me back:
1. Corsa has got some life.
2. At that price, City is perhaps not too compelling given the features (cars with half the price are now going for auto climate control).
3. Perhaps I shall wait for a segment alternative from Toyota (2010?) before buying a replacement.
4. Finally, most important, as reflected in auto sales figures, consumer confidence (income, jobs) is not as it was as in 2007-08.
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Old 3rd January 2009, 12:22   #38
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
...

Can you please share the source of data regarding the sales of Altis and Civic ? You can PM me the link and I will check it out.

....
Please check the excel sheet posted by Vasudeva for the month of Nov 08. It clearly shows that sales of Altis is below that of Civic, even after considering that about 100 units of Civic Hybrid might have been sold. Civic has sold 382 cars in Dec 08 as well. No news on Corolla sales.

Corolla: 3424 cars in Sep 08, 1110 in Oct 08, 302 in Nov 08
Civic: 672 cars in Sep 08, 422 in Oct 08, 462 in Nov 08
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Old 3rd January 2009, 13:38   #39
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
anachronix, if the car was junk, surely those 3000 odd people who bought the thing will start complaining all over and the effect will be seen.

Everybody says that Honda is overpriced and are really junk cars. When you see the sales numbers, you say people go for the badge. Do you truly believe that the buying public are that moronic? If the Civic was overpriced (as many claim), it still outsold everything in its class until the Altis came along. A month later, the Altis was selling lower numbers than the Civic.

The ANHC came along, it wiped the floor with everything else and is still doing so. You'd think such a waste of a car would actually make it's stupid customers make some noises and create a wave of negative publicity through word of mouth that would drag the sales down. Funny how that isn't happening.

Fact is, Honda provides bullet proof reliability, low running costs and engines which provide fuel economy and power in a good balance. People apparently are morons to like all that and should instead go with cars which come bundled with rattlesnakes.

I never quoted anywhere that the ANHC is junk or Honda is junk! Honda makes good cars which have proven reliabiliy not just in India. Its also a respected brand Internationally. People buy Honda cars for this particular fact. I cannot deny facts & stats.

BUT! The ANHC some how dont do much justification to be called the COTY 2009! It felt like a car made for the Indian market and charged a premium for the badge! Its the opinion I could come out with from the TD I had taken. I am not talking about looks, I am talking about the driving dynamics of the ANHC. I still feel the OHC Vtec is the BEST ever City!

There are always people who buy cars only by looking at the badge on the hood or the boot, otherwise we wont see much rattlesnakes on the roads !
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Old 4th January 2009, 11:23   #40
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Bollywood producers think alike - they sign up top actor/actress hoping that their name ensure the movie is hit. Alas, even top actor/actress have their share of bad movies & flops.

Like it takes more than a name ensure a movie is hit, it takes more than badge for a car's success.

Case in point: Mitsubishi had built great trust, great value among public with offerings like Lancer, Pajero. But this didn't ensure success of Cedia, because people didn't see value in it.
After OHC, NHC consistently hit 3000~4000 cars per month. Now ANHC is clocking 3000s in bad economy. That means people see value in these offerings.
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Public turn a blind eye to everything once they see certain badges on these cars.
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Old 4th January 2009, 16:02   #41
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Case in point: Mitsubishi had built great trust, great value among public with offerings like Lancer, Pajero. But this didn't ensure success of Cedia, because people didn't see value in it.
After OHC, NHC consistently hit 3000~4000 cars per month. Now ANHC is clocking 3000s in bad economy. That means people see value in these offerings.
Mitsubishi built great cars and their reputation couldnt sustain anymore beyond 2004-2005, thanks to Hindustan Motors who simply screwed up on the marketing side. Also the tight competition from Honda(Civic), Toyota(Corolla) & Skoda(Octavia & Laura) ensured that the Cedia or any Mitsu product would sink in sales.

The Cedia isnt a great looking car like the other models, but IMO practically it was the best in the 9-10 Lacs price band as the prices were comparable to G2HC. The Cedia did provide ABS & Other safety features as standard through all its variants at a comparable price than the G2HC and great performance too.

People missed to see the VFM in a Cedia since its badge was a Mitsu backed by HM India.
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Old 4th January 2009, 16:08   #42
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Case in point: Mitsubishi had built great trust, great value among public with offerings like Lancer, Pajero. But this didn't ensure success of Cedia, because people didn't see value in it.
After OHC, NHC consistently hit 3000~4000 cars per month. Now ANHC is clocking 3000s in bad economy. That means people see value in these offerings.
Agree that value is a prime driver, but then it does not entirely convey that overpriced and under equipped Honda sells because of value.
Its the badge that sells Honda and definitely Honda has an advantage as far as Indian market in concerned, both for two wheelers and four wheelers.
A car selling better in that segment need not prove to be the best value. SX4 is also good value for money and when compared with G2HC, it was better, so why did it eventually lose to Honda.

And I am really surprised that NHC i.e. G2HC was selling well despite the lack of ABS and airbags that were available in competetion. Its wasnt untill the SX4 arrival that really threatened Honda and they come up with those features. Is it that not offering ABS and Airbags is adding value in a car that was also priced more than what it deserved ?


PS : No offense meant to anyone. I am just posting my opinion that Honda cars in India are under-equipped, overpriced in India and they are not able to provide a good dealer experience in India as compared to what they do internationally. So for Honda India, its badge that sells, that is what my opinion is.
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Old 4th January 2009, 16:36   #43
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I am just posting my opinion that Honda cars in India are under-equipped, overpriced in India and they are not able to provide a good dealer experience in India as compared to what they do internationally. So for Honda India, its badge that sells, that is what my opinion is.
yes, badge sells. true for many other things in life, BRAND sells. but it has taken a long time to establish the HONDA BRAND in india and abroad. but honda responds to competition. (as introduction of SX4 has had an effect)
therefore, honda will give equipment if competition gives it. if tomorrow toyota launches Vios with better equipment at the same, honda will also provide them..till that happens HONDA CAN ENJOY (its challenges)cheers:
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Old 4th January 2009, 17:29   #44
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The badge sells, I accept. But how did it happen? Indians aren't born imprinted in their brain "A Honda won't let you down.". They got that reputation. They earned it. The G2HC, pre-ZX and post-ZX, must've done something right for it to have trounced everything else. That reputation will help sell the ANHC. And the buying public is saying they're continuing their dream run.

I'll tell you what I think - you can take away my electric wing mirrors, futuristic dashboard, and whatever meager features Honda deemed worthy in the Civic. Let me have the car as long as it revs to the moon, never lets me be stranded at night in the middle of nowhere and doesn't burn a hole in my pocket every time I go to the service center and I'll happily pay the premium for peace of mind.
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Old 4th January 2009, 17:41   #45
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you have to add the good looks too. if the altis and the civic swapped looks, which car do you think would sell more ? I think it would be toyota who would have waiting lists bigger than maruti has now
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