Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th January 2009, 22:12   #106
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Driven a cousin and not the VGT, but read about it. Its not good for a car as large as Linea. A larger heart is required for the asking price.



1) No way. There I was clearing doubts raised. Do you know that the 1910cc Fiat Palio was not as powerful as Octy. And that same 1910 produces 140+bhp internationally ? And Way back in 2002, Fiat launched the 1.9, but in 2009, they wont come out with 140+bhp 1.9 ? Why ? So is it that the 1.9 D even with VGT and commonrail cannot perform as good as 1248cc, and that's why Fiat is not coming up with it ?

2) No. Many things and not badge.

3) Sorry for this.

4) No, I havent. But read a lot about it. I have no itentions to crack a joke.

5) No, SX4 is not underpowered. 1.6 Jetta is. You get the idea now. Dzire is not underpowered but linea is.
Sometimes its better to just let go than to keep on arguing for the sake of it. Your arguments are counter intutive, with different standards for different cars. First its the engine capacity even if they have the same bhp, if that doesnt hold good, than its the displacement, else power, in case of Verna as power is more than Octy, so build and badge.

In case of SX4 that comes with VTVT abroad and non VTVT in India, its ok with just 100 horses 145 nm torque with almost same weight as Linea which has a better in gear accerlation and torque. But than displacement becomes important.

> You claim Linea is underpowered at 90 bhp

> Than you claim but Octi with same power is better and worthy of its price

> Than it becomes the engine displacement with Fiat Linea being just 1.3 ltr

> Than you're told that Fiat Palio had a 1.9 D, you claim it had no power

> We give you a 1.6 ltr Verna with more power, than its the build

> The facts that Linea has better in gear accerlation than Octi is meaningless to you as you want a higher top end? Even though 90% of usage would demand in gear acceleration.

I get it dude, you like SX4 but too many ifs and buts in your theory, so please do yourself a favor and give it a REST!

Last edited by aseem : 11th January 2009 at 22:21.
aseem is offline  
Old 11th January 2009, 22:26   #107
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Allright. I just saw the Autocar Show on UTVi and ACI's Sorabjee has justified the ACI COTY 08 for the Linea saying that SIAM has released figures that 130 Lineas were sold by FIAL in Dec-08 and these are on the road. Thus the Linea was technically released in 2008 which therefore justifies the award! Now, has anyone seen a single Linea on the road?

Last edited by SumitB : 11th January 2009 at 22:28.
SumitB is online now  
Old 11th January 2009, 22:30   #108
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,250
Thanked: 1,241 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
Allright. I just saw the Autocar Show on UTVi and ACI's Sorabjee has justified the ACI COTY 08 for the Linea saying that SIAM has released figures that 130 Lineas were sold by FIAL in Dec-08 and these are on the road. Thus the Linea was technically released in 2008. Now, has anyone seen a single Linea on the road?
Same case was with ANHC! Launched in September. When did people get to drive those cars? Atleast the TD. It happened in November!
anachronix is online now  
Old 11th January 2009, 22:34   #109
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,062
Thanked: 291 Times
Default

I have one question. Can someone explain to me how a Palio can be more powerful than the Linea? I'm talking about the petrol engine. I've not driven the Linea, but atleast on paper, the Palio has 100 horses and the Linea has 94 horses right? I couldn't understand the logic behind this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
SIAM has released figures that 130 Lineas were sold by FIAL in Dec-08
They sold it in Black is it? How can they sell before launch?

Last edited by blue_pulsar : 11th January 2009 at 22:36.
blue_pulsar is offline  
Old 11th January 2009, 22:34   #110
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Same case was with ANHC! Launched in September. When did people get to drive those cars? Atleast the TD. It happened in November!
For the ANHC, Honda was only taking bookings in September and had informed its customers that deliveries will be made only in December. Here, ACI is claiming that FIAL actually delivered 130 units of the Linea to customers in December 2008! This is astounding and comes as a big surprise to me! Who got the 130 units and where?
SumitB is online now  
Old 11th January 2009, 23:37   #111
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,012
Thanked: 147 Times
Default

Who said you cant actually sell before launch? My Best friend got his new Honda Accord three weeks before the official launch. His was the First one delivered in India Apparently. He got bored with it after two months and sold it and bought a "couple" of Mercs though!!
Cyrus43 is offline  
Old 11th January 2009, 23:41   #112
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,062
Thanked: 291 Times
Default

Ok. May be they sell before the official launch. But is it official? Also, how about the RTO registration process etc?
blue_pulsar is offline  
Old 12th January 2009, 06:33   #113
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,250
Thanked: 1,241 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
For the ANHC, Honda was only taking bookings in September and had informed its customers that deliveries will be made only in December. Here, ACI is claiming that FIAL actually delivered 130 units of the Linea to customers in December 2008! This is astounding and comes as a big surprise to me! Who got the 130 units and where?
I guess he mentioned the Linea was only booked. Are you trying to over quote his statements to say it was actually delivered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Ok. May be they sell before the official launch. But is it official? Also, how about the RTO registration process etc?
Does the RC carry any details on the date the car was launched?

Last edited by anachronix : 12th January 2009 at 06:35.
anachronix is online now  
Old 12th January 2009, 08:38   #114
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
@aaggoswami,
please don't equate larger engine size (as in cc) with superior technology (otherwise the Americans will win every engine war). The Octavia 1.9TDI is a great engine with high fuel efficiency. However, it is a generation older than the Linea's 1.3 MJD with VGT (variable geomentry turbo). The Linea due to the VGT has very little turbo lag whatever unlike the Octavia and almost all other diesels in India. It also makes higher torque than the 1.9TDI and exactly the same BHP and the car is > 100kg lighter than Octavia.
Now, how does that make it a lesser car than the much more expensive Octavia ?
Ofcourse, one would like if 1.9MJD and other higher spec engines are also made available but these will cost more.
Does Linea have a higher top speed ? I believe that Linea is good for city but not high speed long distance cruising. The numbers say so.
If Linea has a very high tech mill and better aerodynamics than Octy, then it must beat octy to top speed also.

The matter here is that I believe Linea is only a good city car and not a good highway car. It has good ride, no doubt, but the mill is lacking.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post

1) You claim Linea is underpowered at 90 bhp

2) Than you claim but Octi with same power is better and worthy of its price

3) Than it becomes the engine displacement with Fiat Linea being just 1.3 ltr

4) Than you're told that Fiat Palio had a 1.9 D, you claim it had no power

5) We give you a 1.6 ltr Verna with more power, than its the build

6) The facts that Linea has better in gear accerlation than Octi is meaningless to you as you want a higher top end? Even though 90% of usage would demand in gear acceleration.

I get it dude, you like SX4 but too many ifs and buts in your theory, so please do yourself a favor and give it a REST!
1) For highway runs. Go to any express highway, try doing consistently above 150. The figures are good for city along with its linear power deliver that others dont have, but I would prefer a more powerful D-segment Linea.

2) Yes, I do. Reason in point number 1 above.

3) Sorry, 1.25 i.e. 1248cc. Same as what they are offering in small cars. It has its own restrictions. Again, point number 1.

4) I am not told, but 1.9 Palio is brought into. I knew about it since 2002. I knew OD test car had some battery issue with 1.9D Palio. Please dont jump on this again and say that battery issue = bad car. I know that, but this is for reference that I am reasonably aware of this thing happening in our car market.
The point is if they could bring in that in 2002, why not bring in that MJD verison and put in Linea, price it along Octy and Civic and then see the results ?

5) Cant get this point.

6) For a D-segment car, it has to better on many counts IMHO.

7) Each and every theory has " If this is like this then ... ".


I would like to repeat that to me ( Yes for me ) a car as a complete package has to be good and I have posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
It looks like I was discussing one thing with someone, and eventually, my posts looks like they are from a confused personality.
Here I would like to clarify my parameters for rating a car as COTY as the discussion is revolving around COTY.

1) Car.
How good is a car as far as chassis ( suspension, brakes, etc ), engine, space, interior build quality, etc.

2) This car is actually going to be used, so what is cost of spares, availability of spares, A.S & S., features like climate control, etc.

3) Price of the car as regards to point no. 1 and 2.

So when I look into car as a complete package ( I have used this word many times ), the car itself has to be good along with the support it would get from manufacturer.

Honda city is good for Point 1, but not 2. Linea fails in both, A-star is good in both aspects. For those who doubt my credibility to post an opinion, I have voted for A-star as per my thoughts in this thread :http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ar-2008-a.html (Team-BHP New Car Launch of the Year 2008)

I think we are down to arguments rather than discussing. Any problem with my post, please PM to me. I will not be arguing on this thread now.
aaggoswami is online now  
Old 12th January 2009, 08:54   #115
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,250
Thanked: 1,241 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Does Linea have a higher top speed ? I believe that Linea is good for city but not high speed long distance cruising. The numbers say so.
If Linea has a very high tech mill and better aerodynamics than Octy, then it must beat octy to top speed also.

The matter here is that I believe Linea is only a good city car and not a good highway car. It has good ride, no doubt, but the mill is lacking.
One question! Have you TDed the Linea?
anachronix is online now  
Old 12th January 2009, 08:59   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) For highway runs. Go to any express highway, try doing consistently above 150. The figures are good for city along with its linear power deliver that others dont have, but I would prefer a more powerful D-segment Linea.

6) For a D-segment car, it has to better on many counts IMHO.
Few things in your theory are grossly incorrect:

0) Consistanly doing 150 kmph on Indian highways, would result you not posting for too long on T-BHP...

1) Linea is not aiming to be a D Segment Car. Nor will it be priced like one.

2) Smaller, lower displacement engines, can be more powerful, fun to drive, and have a higher top end than large displacement engines.

3) The 1.9D diesel in Octi is a generation old and its a pitty that a 1.3 ltr engine is able to extract the same power and even more torque than it.

Last edited by aseem : 12th January 2009 at 09:04.
aseem is offline  
Old 12th January 2009, 09:09   #117
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,376
Thanked: 528 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post

1) Linea is not aiming to be a D Segment Car. Nor will it be priced like one.
I think this segmentation line is really blurring. Fiat may not want to project Linea as a competition to D segemnt cars like Octy, but from buyers perspective it would match the Octy dimensionally, featurewise and power-wise. In fact it may have more interior space than Octavia!
I cant see an area where it lags behind Octy.
Guna is offline  
Old 12th January 2009, 09:24   #118
BHPian
 
sj_koova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 600
Thanked: 148 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

1) For highway runs. Go to any express highway, try doing consistently above 150. The figures are good for city along with its linear power deliver that others dont have, but I would prefer a more powerful D-segment Linea.
Have you driven a Honda city at 150 kmph?

I was never confident enough to take NHC above 120kmph on the NICE road. I don't think it is any different with ANHC. I haven't done a test drive of ANHC, so it is just an assumption based on my past experience.

I agree NHC or ANHC is a reliable and economic car, but don't even tell me it is a highway car.
sj_koova is offline  
Old 12th January 2009, 09:42   #119
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Fiat Linea has won the ACI COTY award, leaving behind the likes of i20, ANHC etc.
Interesting choice considering that it hasn't been launched officially.
But certainly this is one car which can give its competition hard time.
Well it was originally scheduled to be launched in Dec, so really ACI must have based their award on that. FIAL messed it up by delaying it to '09. Another point is that if they wait till Dec '09 the newness of the car will be gone by then.
Mpower is offline  
Old 12th January 2009, 09:51   #120
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I guess he mentioned the Linea was only booked. Are you trying to over quote his statements to say it was actually delivered?



Does the RC carry any details on the date the car was launched?
Sorabjee said that FIAL "sold" 130 units. I don't know if this means "delivered" or not!
SumitB is online now  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda City BSM COTY 2009 sidindica The Indian Car Scene 75 8th January 2009 12:43
Hyundai i10-CNBC TV-18 COTY 2008 blue_pulsar The Indian Car Scene 18 15th January 2008 16:14
COTY 2007 Awards sandeep108 The Indian Car Scene 28 8th January 2007 21:24
Did Topgear,UK just outsource their COTY awards to Mumbai? merve_extreme Shifting gears 0 8th December 2006 02:32


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:47.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks