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Old 12th January 2009, 09:53   #121
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Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Have you driven a Honda city at 150 kmph?

I was never confident enough to take NHC above 120kmph on the NICE road. I don't think it is any different with ANHC. I haven't done a test drive of ANHC, so it is just an assumption based on my past experience.

I agree NHC or ANHC is a reliable and economic car, but don't even tell me it is a highway car.
I had a NHC and agree with what you said about it's highway abilities. But ANHC is a different car with different abilities. Based on the reports and a short TD I am convinced enough to book this car. But yes, it would be still a car optimised for city which is also adequately competent for occassional highway trips.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:00   #122
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Another point is that if they wait till Dec '09 the newness of the car will be gone by then.
OT : Overdrive has voted Fabia as COTY which was launched in starting of '08.


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Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Have you driven a Honda city at 150 kmph?

I was never confident enough to take NHC above 120kmph on the NICE road. I don't think it is any different with ANHC. I haven't done a test drive of ANHC, so it is just an assumption based on my past experience.

I agree NHC or ANHC is a reliable and economic car, but don't even tell me it is a highway car.

Agree that NHC didnt have good highway manners , but then comparing it with ANHC without even TD it and that too with assumption of past experience is quite ridiculous!!! ANHC is build on flaws of NHC. Though ANHC too has many flaws
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:01   #123
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Few things in your theory are grossly incorrect:

0) Consistanly doing 150 kmph on Indian highways, would result you not posting for too long on T-BHP...

1) Linea is not aiming to be a D Segment Car. Nor will it be priced like one.

2) Smaller, lower displacement engines, can be more powerful, fun to drive, and have a higher top end than large displacement engines.
0) Seriously, I want that day to come early in my life. The sooner it comes, the better for me.

1) The pricing of top end models end that way.

2) This at least not the case with Octy and Linea. I think Fiat should have seriously considered the 1.6 MJD to crush others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Have you driven a Honda city at 150 kmph?

I was never confident enough to take NHC above 120kmph on the NICE road. I don't think it is any different with ANHC. I haven't done a test drive of ANHC, so it is just an assumption based on my past experience.

I agree NHC or ANHC is a reliable and economic car, but don't even tell me it is a highway car.
G2HC i.e. NHC had some problem with regards to design. It actually shifted lanes at above 140 kmph. But from my drive of G3HC, its better but needs rubber upgrade. After that its much better than G2HC.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:02   #124
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I have TD'ed both ANHC & NHC and i can say i felt a good difference between the dynamic capabilities of the ANHC. I wont take the NHC to 120 on highways due to the silly steering, but ANHC would do that quite well (and pretty quickly too). I cant really say for 150 - to be frank i have not driven much in India at that speed.

But that being said A Civic or a Linea or an Octy will my much more conformable at 120 than ANHC.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 12th January 2009 at 10:04.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:03   #125
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Exciting and animated topic. My observations:

1) I was extremely disappointed at learning that Linea is launched with 'just' a 1.3 and not the 1.9 mjd!
2) Even with VGT the 90 bhp sounds 'sufficient' on paper maybe not enough (I thought)
3) The fact that it has been priced so competitively makes it clear that Linea is not going after the enthusiasts but for general mass (makes business sense - unfortunately)
4) The other cars in the segment (read "Similar Price Bracket") are Ford Fiesta, Suzuki SX4 are nowhere close to the Linea in terms of interiors and equipment. The steering wheel looks and feels mindblowing! Performance is competitive when compared to these 2. (Consciously I leave the Verna out - thats clearly the fastest car this side of Civic-Altis)
5) The Optra, Octavia, ANHC are atleast a couple of lakhs or more above the Linea depending on the model (pls correct me if Im wrong here) - so its an unfair comparison - the fact that Linea punches above its weight speaks loads about it!
So to summarize - I think its a winner - may not still appeal to those prefering a drivers car (including me).
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:21   #126
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Good to hear ANHC has good highway manners. I plan to TD it pretty soon. But still 150kmph is something I will have to try to believe

I am already impressed with the makeover they have done with ANHC.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:57   #127
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Considering what is being offered and in general what is being offered as A.S & S., I made the above statement.
You want A.S&S and spares to be a consideration while pricing the car? Ok then pay Honda Civic prices for the Maruti 800 since it has the widest service network in India! Octavia should be priced at Nano levels then! And BMW 3 should be then priced at Swift level. Wow, I'll buy one every year!

Quote:
A D-segment car
Why do you keep saying Linea is a D segement car? A few Octavia buyers may prefer to buy the Linea and for good reason but I don't see a Accord or Laura buyer buying a Linea.

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Why Fiat allowed Suzuki to produce engine under license in the first place. If we keep history aside, Maruti has a logical reason to ask for more money for Dzire.
Maruti is incompetant enough to not develop a diesel engine of it's own so they buy a engine from another manufacturer and then tell their customers that they should pay more for their incompetency?! Wow, I'd like to see how a prospective customer reacts to that on a Maruti showroom floor!

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What I meant is that Linea does not even have that good features available.
A car thats everyone agrees is loaded with features and you say it doesn't have good features? You can buy a diesel engine with ACC, ABS , Airbags, Blue&Me for almost the same price as a Honda City PETROL with no ACC and alloys.

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But SX4 never targetted the D-segment price with B segment engine
Neither is the Linea. I don't know how you believe the Linea is targetted at the D segment?!

Quote:
No, SX4 is not underpowered.
Have you driven the SX4? The car is bloody dead upto 2500rpm. In first and second gears the car just refuses to move unless flogged.

Quote:
Car.
How good is a car as far as chassis ( suspension, brakes, etc ), engine, space, interior build quality, etc.

2) This car is actually going to be used, so what is cost of spares, availability of spares, A.S & S., features like climate control, etc.

3) Price of the car as regards to point no. 1 and 2.

So when I look into car as a complete package ( I have used this word many times ), the car itself has to be good along with the support it would get from manufacturer.

Honda city is good for Point 1, but not 2. Linea fails in both, A-star is good in both aspects.
Have you driven both the Linea and ANHC? One area where the Linea has no equal in the C segment today is suspension and ride quality. And you say the Linea fails in that area while A-Star does better?!! You say Honda City is good in features and Linea is not! No alloys and ACC with a petrol engine car is good features against a ACC and Blue&Me in a diesel engined car? Wow, great logic.

Since you want A.S&S. to be a consideration for price of the car, the ANHC should be avaliable for Swift prices if you go by the high handedness of Honda and it's dealers.

Quote:
about features, does Linea have directional headlamps ? They are again safety feature. Does it have Xenon lights in all models ?
directional headlamps and Xenons? The Civic, Jetta, Corolla Altis and even Mercedes C class don't have these.

Since you talk about features, your COTY, the A-Star doesn't have rear wash wipe even in the top end Zxi variant.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:58   #128
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Note: I am giving examples where people have put in 30K, 40K Kms on their car and have intimate understanding of their machinery.

To take any car over 150, you need some experience driving that car. What happens is people go for test drive and in the 1st trial itself they try to hit 150. When they can't they say car 'doesn't instill confidence'.

On NICE road I have been on (77BHP) NHC which did 170. Forget NICE road, on the Bangalore Mysore road, I have done 165. I am sure there are better drivers who take it higher.

Actually driving NHC on high way is breeze - just slot to 5th gear when you cross 50 and forget changing gears till you reach your destination !! All overtake maneuvers can be done without changing the gears !!!

Sorry for being slightly off-topic - I am clearing misconceptions and putting things in perspective.
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Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Have you driven a Honda city at 150 kmph?

I was never confident enough to take NHC above 120kmph on the NICE road.
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:10   #129
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Note: I am giving examples where people have put in 30K, 40K Kms on their car and have intimate understanding of their machinery.

Actually driving NHC on high way is breeze - just slot to 5th gear when you cross 50 and forget changing gears till you reach your destination !! All overtake maneuvers can be done without changing the gears !!!
This deserves the JOTY 2009 award. Yeah, Joke Of The Year award !
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:14   #130
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Care to explain why you feel so?
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This deserves the JOTY 2009 award. Yeah, Joke Of The Year award !
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:27   #131
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Care to explain why you feel so?
My family owned the NHC for over 2 years and I quite know how funny it is when you talk about the NHC(not the Vtec) breezing on the highway!
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:29   #132
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Care to explain why you feel so?
My family owned the NHC for over 2 years and I quite know how funny it is when you talk about the NHC(not the Vtec) breezing on the highway!

Its a totally underpowered & unstable at speeds beyond 150KM/H.
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:35   #133
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If you had driven the car for 5000 Kms, you would have found out yourself.
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
My family owned the NHC for over 2 years and I quite know how funny it is when you talk about the NHC(not the Vtec) breezing on the highway!
Obviously if there are 4 or 5 people in the car then the car sticks to ground better. With just the driver the car may seem unstable, but it is not so.
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Its a totally underpowered & unstable at speeds beyond 150KM/H.

Last edited by diabloo : 12th January 2009 at 11:38.
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Old 12th January 2009, 11:42   #134
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
To take any car over 150, you need some experience driving that car. What happens is people go for test drive and in the 1st trial itself they try to hit 150. When they can't they say car 'doesn't instill confidence'.
Hello friend,
To some extend I would agree with you. One should understand the machine before he can push it to its capacity.
And I do not say NHC can't do 150kmph. My debate is about how well it can do and how much is improved in ANHC. Also how ANHC compares with Linea.
From the comments of many others (including NHC owners), I understand that NHC did not do it so well, but ANHC is capable of doing it. We do not have a concrete answer about Linea yet!

Now in my case, my speculation is just not based on TD of NHC. I have driven it enough and NICE road is where I wanted to try its capability. I was at 125kmph and I knew I can push the car further, but the feedback I was getting from car was too little as if it was going to take off from a runway. Thats not how I wanted a car to behave at greater speeds. The car should be in my control, but NHC was doing it the other way at greater speeds.

On the other hand the the first TD of cedia and Fiesta was so neat and inspiring. I was so confident to take it to 150kmph. If this was the case with NHC, I would have been NHC owner today. I was getting a great deal through a know person at Honda India.

Also I have driven cars in India and abroad extensively at greater speeds. So it was not very difficult for me to understand its capability. Your argument may be true in some cases, but not in mine for sure.
I know you are big time fan of Honda, so you may have counter arguments. But most of the people here will not be interested in our debate. So the verdict is, you believe that NHC can do over 150kmph with ease and I believe the other way. Let it be so.
Let me TD ANHC and Linea before I can comment more.
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Old 12th January 2009, 12:00   #135
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
0) Seriously, I want that day to come early in my life. The sooner it comes, the better for me.

1) The pricing of top end models end that way.

2) This at least not the case with Octy and Linea. I think Fiat should have seriously considered the 1.6 MJD to crush others.
1) The price of top end models is cheaper than Honda City. Honda City is C+ segment. Same is true for Linea which covers from C to C+ segment depending on model/features

2) I cant see the point of comparing Linea with an ageing Octi, which is low on technology (non CRDI), low on torque, expensive A.S.S., is 2 lakhs more expensive, when models are compared like for like.

I wish ANHC had an option for 1.8 ltr engine like it has in China, I wish Civic Type R was launched in India, I wish 150 BHP 2.0 ltr VGT was launched with Optra TDCI, I wish SX4 had considered 2.0 ltr engine like US or VTEC head for the engine in India, I wish Corolla had considered the new engine for Altis in India, I wish Skoda had considered phasing out the pump duse engine and the old Octi chasis in India, I wish i20 had considered a 1.4 ltr CRDI in India, I wish Ford Fiesta had considered a 1.6 ltr diesel engine in India, I wish Skoda had launched Laura vRS....

^^ I guess all manfacturers realized that launching such engine options in India is not feasible at the current prices/road conditions. I can go on an on... but the point I am trying to make here is that there is no need to single out Fiat Linea for a crime commited by all. Its a C/C+ Segment car that offers road presence that can match many D segment cars. Of course its not priced like them so we cant expect everything. If you want a D Segment car, buy a Laura. For others who want a car close to 8 lakhs ex-showroom there is not many other options of Deisel car with comfort, size, suspension, look, space, chasis, features offered by Linea.

Last edited by aseem : 12th January 2009 at 12:03.
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