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Old 18th January 2009, 12:28   #31
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@ skywalker: I did mention that Honda would never do that.

Having owned an OHC, I admire Honda for their motors and their practice of bringing in the latest from their stables. Was trying to put across the point that models do grow in dimensions and move up segments; giving manufacturers an oppurtunity to sell them side by side!
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Old 18th January 2009, 12:46   #32
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@josepeter. damn- i should learn TO READ. sorry about it - you are right.
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Old 18th January 2009, 13:34   #33
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in europe a replacement model becomes pricier,larger and often moves up by a segment higher than the car it replaced..in a big market like india why would a manufacturer discontinue a model that was doing good in a particular segment and replace it with the new model? why will it lose a sizeable chunk of its market?? this is why octavia-laura & accent-verna exist..in india its easy to sell an outdated car...people really dont know,they are not much AWARE..would you still buy an ikon?? its been there since donkey's days..most maruti suzukis are outdated as well
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Old 18th January 2009, 15:36   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
In the end no manufacturer can fool the public for long. If one is doing it there's an option for others to stand up an provide better features @ good prices (and thereby capture the market)

But then again the equation is complex:

1) Arcane tax systems. We all know the heavy tax implications for cars, the implications on imports and the push towards smaller engines due to tax breaks
2) Relatively high running costs: India has higher running costs. Fuel is expensive in absolute and relative (earning potential) terms. Cant blame people for thinking about fuel efficiency as a top-notch priority.
3) Competition : if another manufacturer provides better cars at lower costs, then there's competition. We didn't see much of that around. Things are changing with more cars launched. Lets see what happens now.

In a way i am excited about Honda/Toyota launching smaller cars. It should change the landscape a bit.
Maruti 800 still sells despite it being replaced by Alto and now with A-star. all these are Altos, even zen is an alto!

M800
alto
zen
A-star
these are all ALTOS....but still being sold in their current avatars!

i10 was replacement for santro
i20 was replacement for getz
verna was replcement for accent

so many versions of indcas are on the road.

these vehicles prove that its the consumer himself/herself who wants to remain fools and not improve upon their choice of vehicle.

cheers:
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Old 18th January 2009, 15:54   #35
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does that mean that people who buy classic jeeps or land rovers are fools who should have bought the newer models instead ?

they buy it because they see more value in the older product!Its not like these older cars have had their designs frozen during their lifecycles. all of them have had body, interior and engine upgrades, with the basic design still remaining the same.

Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by greenhorn : 18th January 2009 at 15:57.
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Old 18th January 2009, 17:21   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
1) Arcane tax systems. We all know the heavy tax implications for cars, the implications on imports and the push towards smaller engines due to tax breaks
2) Relatively high running costs: India has higher running costs. Fuel is expensive in absolute and relative (earning potential) terms. Cant blame people for thinking about fuel efficiency as a top-notch priority.
3) Competition : if another manufacturer provides better cars at lower costs, then there's competition. We didn't see much of that around. Things are changing with more cars launched. Lets see what happens now.
And which of these influenced Maruti-Suzuki's decision to discontinue the 5 speed M800?

Here is something I have said elsewhere on this forum, and will repeat here - MSIL can sell what they currently sell as the Alto at same price as M800. They can sell a M800 with 5 speed gear box at same prices at the currently available 4 speed M800.

They wont. Because we will not ask for more.

In fact, IIRC, M800 prices were NOT reduced when they reverted to the 4 speed gear box from the 5 speed one.

Edit:-

And then, there was this short thread about the Sri Lankan Swift having better features and a more advanced Engine than the Indian one.

And where are Suzuki's sub 500CC turbo charged petrol engines?

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 18th January 2009 at 17:24.
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Old 18th January 2009, 17:31   #37
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But what is the no of model do you get from each company per year. For example Toyota has just few model in India where as same toyota sell many good and advance model out side India even in Bangladesh.
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Old 18th January 2009, 18:40   #38
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Ford is still selling IKON for nearly ten years on. The model has been discontuined long time back. And replaced by new fiesta, which we get in India.

Same story with Mitusbishi they are selling Pajero and Montero. Top range Shogun = Montero sells for 35,000 GBP in UK. Where as in India its about 40lac. The Lancer has been distcontuined time back and the new Lancer has been lauched. They are still selling Cedia, why can't they replace it by the new Lancer.
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Old 18th January 2009, 23:24   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Maruti 800 still sells despite it being replaced by Alto and now with A-star. all these are Altos, even zen is an alto!

M800
alto
zen
A-star
these are all ALTOS....but still being sold in their current avatars!

i10 was replacement for santro
i20 was replacement for getz
verna was replcement for accent

so many versions of indcas are on the road.

these vehicles prove that its the consumer himself/herself who wants to remain fools and not improve upon their choice of vehicle.

cheers:
I don't fully agree with you, if the replacements (i10, or A-star or...) priced the same as the older version, how many of us or Team BHPians or the common people will go for the older versions. So you can't put all the blame on consumer, there needs to be some change happening from the manufacturer .
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Old 19th January 2009, 00:59   #40
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Eureka!!!

i got the solution to stop ourselvs beings fooled by the auto manufactures in india.....

....lets top buying cars made in india! lets import cheap and cheerfull chinese copies!
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Old 19th January 2009, 08:31   #41
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"There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." - G.W.Bush

lol
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Old 19th January 2009, 10:22   #42
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I think the best option is to vote with our feet (wallets) and not encourage discontinued hardware. I expect a lot of this to vanish in by next year when the E-IV regulations come in.

As for the M800 5-speed I guess this was discontinued to try and separate it from the Alto. As the Alto VX (1.1l) was not selling well, MS decided to eliminate it and at the same time.
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Old 19th January 2009, 10:47   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
And which of these influenced Maruti-Suzuki's decision to discontinue the 5 speed M800?

Here is something I have said elsewhere on this forum, and will repeat here - MSIL can sell what they currently sell as the Alto at same price as M800. They can sell a M800 with 5 speed gear box at same prices at the currently available 4 speed M800.
(2) price & (3) competition. 800 is the cheapest car available in India as of now. Lets not forget that there are still many people in India under 2L annual income, who wants to buy cars. Maruti still might want to keep it as a reasonable option against Nano.

But if you see, Alto has taken over the 800 as the highest selling hatch. So apart from Nano competition, the day is not far away when 800 gets replaced (same as Zen & Baleno)
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Old 19th January 2009, 11:10   #44
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Talking Another Way.....

This thread is doing well than I expected...

Have you notice this.. First models when launched have normal glass lens over front headlamps/ tail lights, and body colored trims and after 2 years they go ahead with facelift with clear lens lamps and chrome trims...

Cars as below:
1. Alto
2. Swift (Tail lights)
3. Tata Indigo

And yes.. Toyota... what is the major difference in the facelift Innova... just clear lens lamps and more chrome...

Honda - All New Honda City.... just check this model in next January... it will sport following:
1. Clear Lens Head Lamps
2. Chrome Grill


Hehehe......
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Old 19th January 2009, 12:27   #45
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here are some photos of the new civic 2009 with mid-life face lift and cosmetic changes.

1. headlights now sport "kajal" instead of chrome lining.
2. tailights are now oval shaped instead of round.
3. integrated music system in the dashboard.
4. change in front bumper.
5. the front grill has small changes too

here are some photos....
Attached Thumbnails
How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07441a.jpg  

How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07442a.jpg  

How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07444a.jpg  

How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07445a.jpg  

How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07446a.jpg  

How Car Manufacturers Fool Us-dsc07447a.jpg  


Last edited by Parm : 19th January 2009 at 12:29.
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