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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:29   #181
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I feel thats down to the tyres, with Linea have 195 rubber vs 175 stock for City.
Tyres would contribute significantly, but I guess the brakes themselves are more effective as well - maybe someone has specs for the front disc size etc.
Linea is also heavier than ANHC.

Lastly, its Honda's fault to shod ANHC with that completely inadequate 175 tyres knowing the power the car has. One could even say it was irresponsible - just to boost FE to the highest possible! If one wants to change the tyres, there will be additional cost 10-12k after trading in the original set.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:36   #182
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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Might be OT:

But here we go with FIAT Reply to the Honda City Ad. FIAT is getting aggressive with Ads after aggressive pricing. "Even While Standing Still, It's Miles Ahead"
I didnt understand how that advertisement is a reply to the Honda City ad...
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:37   #183
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Talking Thrilling story !!

I will make your story thrilling - Top end variants considered:

Exteriors - Linea 4, City 4
Some like it retro and some like it modern, so evens

Interiors - Linea 4, City 4.5
Linea is big but less space so less points

Features - Linea 4, City 4
Features evenly matched

Safety - Linea 4, City 4
Both have same set of safety features

Ride and Handling - Linea 4, City 4
Linea is unknown entity. So benefit of doubt gets even points

Performance - Linea 4 City 4.5
Again Linea is unknown, so based on specs City gets more.

Economy - Linea 4 , City 4
Again Linea is unknown, Fiat is not known for FE. But Linea costs less. So even points.

Total - Linea 28, City 29

So City just manages to scrape through by just one single point

What a finish !! What a thrilling match

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
Below is what I think the rating should be:

Exteriors - Linea 4, City 3.5
Linea looks good from every angle

Interiors - Linea 4, City 3.5
Good quality plastics on the Linea, more space

Features - Linea 4.5, City 3
Linea gets Climate control, Blue & Me, CD Player

Safety - Linea 5, City 4
Linea is based on the Punto (EuroNCAP rating of 5) while City is based on the Jazz (rating of 4)

Ride and Handling - Linea 4.5, City 3.5
Better Ride on the Linea, better handling, wider tyres

Performance - Linea 3 City 5
City is faster in the 0-100 sprint, Linea is better in the 80-0

Economy - Linea 4.5 , City 3.5
FE should be comparable, but Linea has the diesel advantage

Total - Linea 29.5, City 26
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:45   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I will make your story thrilling - Top end variants considered:

Interiors - Linea 4, City 4.5
Linea is big but less space so less points

Features - Linea 4, City 4
Features evenly matched

Ride and Handling - Linea 4, City 4
Linea is unknown entity. So benefit of doubt gets even points
Could you explain what features city has that is not present in Linea. There is no way that both city and Linea can be given same ratings for features it should be 3 to city and 4.5 to Linea. In all the above mentioned factors i felt after driving both the car Linea is better than Honda city.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:50   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Top end variants considered:

Features - Linea 4, City 4
Features evenly matched


Quote:
Safety - Linea 4, City 4
Both have same set of safety features
OK.

Quote:
Ride and Handling - Linea 4, City 4
Linea is unknown entity. So benefit of doubt gets even points
Wow thats interesting. Now people are comparing products that are unknown to them and giving points on perception, benefit of doubt and their likings!

If a product is unknown to you and/or you have not expereinced it, leave the comparo's to the experts like ACI and OD.

Quote:
Performance - Linea 4 City 4.5
Again Linea is unknown, so based on specs City gets more.
Same as above.

Quote:
Economy - Linea 4 , City 4
Again Linea is unknown, Fiat is not known for FE. But Linea costs less. So even points.
Same as the above two points.

This is easily the best comparision thread I have ever seen on team-bhp!

Last edited by amit : 22nd January 2009 at 10:54.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:52   #186
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Actually a few glaring mistakes in your calculation and rating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I will make your story thrilling - Top end variants considered:

Exteriors - Linea 4, City 4
Some like it retro and some like it modern, so evens
Agreed.

Interiors - Linea 4, City 4.5
Linea is big but less space so less points
Agreed

Features - Linea 4.5, City 3.5
Features evenly matched
No chance. Way off the mark. Why are you not considering the Blue&me, the rear AC vents, the climate control and other small touches like service reminder, speed limit reminder.

Safety - Linea 4, City 4
Both have same set of safety features

Ride and Handling - Linea 4.5, City 3.5
Linea is unknown entity. So benefit of doubt gets even points
Unknown entity to you since you didn't drive it. So you can't rate it.

Performance - Linea 4 City 4.5
Again Linea is unknown, so based on specs City gets more.
Again unknown for you but yes not as powerful as City.

Economy - Linea 4.5 , City 3.5
Again Linea is unknown, Fiat is not known for FE. But Linea costs less. So even points.
Linea costs less and is diesel. City is way behind in FE compared to Linea.

So City just manages to scrape through by just one single point

What a finish !! What a thrilling match
So Linea is 29.5 and 27.5 for the City. What a thrilling finish indeed.

I must say that your rating is invalid since you have not driven the Linea. Actually I doubt you have driven the ANHC.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 10:52   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
The problem with Linea is poor driveability due to turbo lag and tall gearing which gives the feeling of being underpowered. In fact, if they throw out the VGT turbo and go back to the 75 bhp spec it will be better for them.
If ACI figures are to be believed, Linea beats everyone else including mightly Verna, Magnum and AHNC in terms of 20-80 in 3rd and 40-100 in 4th. I would say it indicates better driveability, if not downright acceleration i.e. 0-100. (I am using ACI only to get numbers, actual feel will depend on individual liking).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Eddy View Post
Although FIAT themselves haven't mentioned any figures, I don't think it would be that bad compared to the VTEC. For one, turbo-charging always improves efficiency (performance tuning usually off-sets that), and two - its a smaller displacement engine..
Internationally, it is supposed to be frugal yet powerful. In fact, T-JET is one of the best engines in its segment in 2008. (VW TSI engines are rated as the best).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But you have to give it to Honda for the reliability and quality of the cars. Thats enabled them to build a very solid reputation. Cars are not sold on just virtue of car itself, but also reputation and brand trust and image. This is something FIAT has to build up. This is the biggest challenge to Fiat. Many people will dismiss linea without even driving it once because of past experiences. And I am sure that if Fiat repeat any of the past mistakes, its curtains for them in India.
With you 100%. Their challenge lies not in the car itself but more in changing this perception through aggressive marketing and uniform A/S/S across country (and certainly better A/S/S in Kerala :-) ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I feel thats down to the tyres, with Linea have 195 rubber vs 175 stock for City.
Tyres do play a vital role, but you don't get better braking by just upgrading the tyres. That way if you plonk 225 rubber, you should be able to stop within 20m, which is not possible. Anyway, 175 for 116 bhp City seems skinny, isn't it?
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:00   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Linea Safety
The top Emotion Option pack model gets Airbags, ABS/EDB, 3 point seat belt system. But Fiat has left us wanting here, specially as Honda has done a one up on them as providing ABS and Airbags as standard on all varians. Fiat does not give an option to have Airbags even in Dynamic variant and they dont come as standard in Emotion. Its not a move that I like, as I dont think Indians should be given an option of safety or saving the buck. Force safety like Honda even if it means increased price.

Safety Rating: 2.5/5 (As I dont see many buying Emotion Option Pack)

Honda City Safety
It seems to me that Honda have taken all the negative feedback of NHC and tried to revert that in ANHC. However in doing so they forgot some of the key things that NHC was famous for, mainly interiors and FE. Having said that they do seem to have upped the game for all cars in this segment by making ABS and Airbags as standard across all models. Even they could have priced the car less by 40-50k by not giving these features or launching another model without these features. That would have meant more sales, but they have taken the higher moral ground here and I salute them for this!

Saftey Rating: 4.5/5
Your points would have made sense only if Fiat had not provided ABS/Airbags as optional.

The Linea MJD Dynamic comes with ABS as optional and estimated OTR cost is well below 9 Lakhs here in Chennai.

Since its available as option pack across 2 variants I feel that Linea should score similar points to ANHC. Well if you also consider the OTR cost between the Linea & ANHC the Linea should outscore the ANHC.

Last edited by anachronix : 22nd January 2009 at 11:04.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:04   #189
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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Tyres would contribute significantly, but I guess the brakes themselves are more effective as well - maybe someone has specs for the front disc size etc.
Linea is also heavier than ANHC.

Lastly, its Honda's fault to shod ANHC with that completely inadequate 175 tyres knowing the power the car has. One could even say it was irresponsible - just to boost FE to the highest possible! If one wants to change the tyres, there will be additional cost 10-12k after trading in the original set.
Honda deserves the blame here, but I guess it cant single out Honda for undertyring. As most manfacturers historically have done this in India.

Linea definitely is better equiped and better tyred and thoroughly deserves to be applauded. Can someone shed more lights on the Linea tyres, I had read somewhere on the forum that they are not suited for our temperature. What was that about?
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:07   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Actually a few glaring mistakes in your calculation and rating.



So Linea is 29.5 and 27.5 for the City. What a thrilling finish indeed.

I must say that your rating is invalid since you have not driven the Linea. Actually I doubt you have driven the ANHC.
Ofcourse. Its all based on "specs". Just like you compare 2 batsmen by looking at their strike rate, average etc

Last edited by Fountainheader : 22nd January 2009 at 11:10.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:08   #191
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@vid - yours sounds like the most balanced one of this entire Thread. I would make two changes - but they are minor - largely i agree with your statements

Interiors - Linea 4, City 4
Linea is big but less space so less points
-> i think this's probably a perception than an actual space problem. Linea's front seats are by default pushed way back - and assuming a driver takes same space in both cars, space should be at least equal

Performance - Linea 3 City 4.5
I would probably rate Linea a little lower here. It should be at least 1 point less.Linea still wins by a point!

Last edited by SkyWalker : 22nd January 2009 at 11:10.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:10   #192
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
If ACI figures are to be believed, Linea beats everyone else including mightly Verna, Magnum and AHNC in terms of 20-80 in 3rd and 40-100 in 4th. I would say it indicates better driveability, if not downright acceleration i.e. 0-100. (I am using ACI only to get numbers, actual feel will depend on individual liking).
Now I dont know if ACI test was done using 90 bhp diesel, as the car was later detuned to 85 bhp. Also the Zigwheels test that was most definitely done after launch states that Linea takes around 17-18 seconds to reach a ton. However from my own driving experience on Gurgaon expressway, I definitely found the car slugish and heavy, it had decent torque over 2k RPM but still took its own sweet time to reach decent highway speeds.

Last edited by aseem : 22nd January 2009 at 11:12.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:13   #193
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Why are you not considering the Blue&me, the rear AC vents, the climate control and other small touches like service reminder, speed limit reminder.
Vid, just like Honda's R&D proved that Indian diesel is not good enough to power their diesel engines, in the same way, their research proved why these features don't make sense in India.

- Blue&Me: None of the software companies globally are able to design a software like this to run Honda's state of the art technologically advanced cars.

- ACC: This system does not suit the climatic conditions prevealent in our country. Also, the Indian skin tone will not take too well to the ACC.

- Rear A/C Vents: The owner does not like full blast of air on his face. It spoils his receding hairstyle.

- Service reminder and speed limit indicator: Indian buyers are not mature enough to understand these features. If the computer starts beeping, the owner will think there is something wrong with his car or that it's rattling.

Rest assured, Honda's R&D is working overtime on these features. When the time is right and when Indian buyers have matured enough, Honda will incorporate these features in their products.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 11:17   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I will make your story thrilling - Top end variants considered:

Exteriors - Linea 4, City 4
Some like it retro and some like it modern, so evens

Interiors - Linea 4, City 4.5
Linea is big but less space so less points

Features - Linea 4, City 4
Features evenly matched

Safety - Linea 4, City 4
Both have same set of safety features

Ride and Handling - Linea 4, City 4
Linea is unknown entity. So benefit of doubt gets even points

Performance - Linea 4 City 4.5
Again Linea is unknown, so based on specs City gets more.

Economy - Linea 4 , City 4
Again Linea is unknown, Fiat is not known for FE. But Linea costs less. So even points.

Total - Linea 28, City 29

So City just manages to scrape through by just one single point

What a finish !! What a thrilling match
Linea - Diesel
City - Petrol

So the Linea gets 10 bonus point on that. Plus the readers votes also counts in.

Total score - 29.5 + 10 bonus points. 39.5!!!! What thrilling match?
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Old 22nd January 2009, 12:01   #195
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Now I dont know if ACI test was done using 90 bhp diesel, as the car was later detuned to 85 bhp. Also the Zigwheels test that was most definitely done after launch states that Linea takes around 17-18 seconds to reach a ton. However from my own driving experience on Gurgaon expressway, I definitely found the car slugish and heavy, it had decent torque over 2k RPM but still took its own sweet time to reach decent highway speeds.
It is officially confirmed by Fiat (read Deepak' post, not sure in which thread though) that the engine is in the same state of tuning as used by the magazines for testing.

@amit, Not that it is relevant, Acura comes with voice activated command system.

Last edited by RX135 : 22nd January 2009 at 12:08.
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