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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th January 2009, 23:48   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntrz View Post
90 bhp/208 NM torque. Linea engine specs are same as Octavia diesel which otherwise is a segment higher and commands a premium, thus making the price difference between Linea and Octavia to 3-4 lakhs. I wonder if this would affect Octavia sales.
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Its been detuned by 5 bhp in India.
Line FIRE (Petrol version) is 90bhp, detuned from 95? The diesel is detuned to 85. Does this make Linea as good as Octavia in performace.
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Old 27th January 2009, 23:59   #272
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Let's not make this a Honda VS Fiat fan war. We have this review and was written with a good intent. I don't own a FIAT or HONDA and I found this thread very informative (loved the drama as well).

What these kind of threads gives out is subjective-individual opinion (not sure about definitive) and folks thats why Forums are available and threads are created.

I'm waiting on a 3rd review so that I can take the best of three vote
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Old 28th January 2009, 00:05   #273
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Originally Posted by grvanand View Post
@aseem, looks like all the Fiat owners are members in this forum to you.

All the factors mentioned can be corrected, if one does customization. Honda needs alloys and wider tyres to bring out its potential, Linea needs engine mapping or ECU upgrade to make it sporty, thus to each his own.

I am a Fiat owner for sure but I do love the beauty of this i-vtec engine in the City. Fiat too are one of the best engine makers but their choice now in India are not sporty. Remember, they brought out the very first 1.6 litre engined hatchback, Linea engines dont set such benchmarks, what it needs is the 1.4 T-jet.

However, these 2 cars when taken as an entire package, if VFM is a criteria, Linea would beat the City with by a margin. If I was in the market with a budget of 10 lacs, I would pick a City too for the engine, please dont catagorise us as "Fiat owners".
Dear GRVAnand, I have test driven both the cars and I totally agree with your choice. I may book the City in a weeks time,have spent most of my day today test driving city extensively and also compared to the City ZX as there is a great offer going on it. Trust me...the new city is in a league of its own in terms of drive and comfort and Linea is nowhere close to in both these regards.
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Old 28th January 2009, 00:51   #274
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post

Driveability and Engine City

Didnt drive it this time, but as far I remember it was silent and smooth with enough pull. It also required less gear changes and the gear shift was slick and smooth. The suspension was not as good as Linea, and bumps could be felt.

Rating 4/5

Driveability and Engine Linea

My freinds first observation SOUND! No matter how loud we put the music the sound could be heard. Those used to diesel I guess its fine, but I found the in cabin noise to be inacceptable for a C+ segment car. The pull in first was lacking, second was ok but above 2k RPM the sound was evident. The third and fourth gear and plenty of pull. But it required me to shift to 4th to reach 100, I am used to reaching 100 on second or third in Swift. The gear shift was notch, but the suspension was butter. Somehow I didnt fine the engine to be as refined as I would have liked, perhaps more due to poor sound insulation. Another thing I noticed this time was braking, which was too good imo.
.
Sir,
The performance characteristics of a Diesel and petrol engined vehicle coupled with gear ratios differ a lot.
In the case of the Linea, It has a short ratio gearbox unlike the ANHC which has a taller ratio- hence you could do 0-100 in the 2nd or 3rd gear in the ANHC. The Swift has a tall 2nd gear, hence you can rev her to around 6K RPM which would not be possible on a diesel engine.
I would say that the FIAT guys have really pulled this off very well to have a diesel linea being cheaper than the petrol ANHC.
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Old 28th January 2009, 02:14   #275
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aseem -- how about the fog lamps in anhc ??? they dont come standard do they..... in cities like delhi were the visibility would be 10 meters in Dec...... Fog lamps become very crucial for safety.....

I think alloys and fog lamps come for some 40K...... this was when i had booked ANHC before its launch.....

If this stands true, how about cutting few points from ANHC on safety ???

I love the dials on Linea... looks like the one on GT 600...

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Last edited by tsk1979 : 28th January 2009 at 04:51.
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Old 28th January 2009, 02:18   #276
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Well firstly I dont think its fair to compare the Petrol Linea with the Honda City as the quality of engines make the two cars a segment apart. So the only meaningful comparison would be of Honda City and Fiat Linea MJD.
Well, if 'the quality of engines' were the yardstick as defined by you, then the comparison between the Linea MJD and Honda City is flawed as well. A 1.3 L 85 BHP detuned diesel engine aimed at fuel efficiency is hardly the right comparison with the iVtec 1.5 L 116 BHP Honda engine.
Perhaps, one reason for such a comparison is the fact they compete in the same category at roughly the same price points.
Another perhaps is the size and features which pits them against each other in the C segment.

Either way, the petrol Linea has every right to get a fair comparison.

Having said that, you have obviously taken great pains to draft this and thanks for a fine effort.
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Old 28th January 2009, 04:49   #277
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Originally Posted by tinkywinky View Post
in cities like delhi were the visibility would be 10 meters in Dec...... Fog lamps become very crucial for safety
Umm, slight correction here, the tiny fog lamps on cars fitted on the bumper offer absolutely zilch visiblity or any other advantage in fog. They are more like all show and no go.
As for comparisons, this thread can actually go nowhere. Its the classic European design philosophy vs Japanese smoothness. There are people who swear by European build quality, and there are others who prefer the silky smooth Japanese motors.
Trying to show each other the point will be pointless. So no point arguing, its a matter of personal preference.
Honda has traditionally been known for better engines than fiat(petrol of course), and fiat has traditionally been known for more VFM cars with better suspension and comfort and more solid build. For a moment, if you forget the A.S.S. track record, and just focus on the cars, they are different philosophically. Car purchase is never an objective decision, so unless the vehicle is an absolute disaster like the 118NE, its very difficult to say whether its better or worse than its contemporary.
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Old 28th January 2009, 11:06   #278
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For once, thank you @aseem for the comparison. The effort is really appreciated, so is the information provided. I hope there are many others in this forum who would agree with me.

let's not spoil the thread unncecessarily. It is always easy to question something being said in a thread. It does take lot of time and energy to initiate one.

If anyone indeed have a problem with the parameters used for the comparison, please go ahead an do your own "definitive" comparison. We would be happy to see that.
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Old 28th January 2009, 12:01   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
let's not spoil the thread unncecessarily. It is always easy to question something being said in a thread. It does take lot of time and energy to initiate one.
Agree. I for one, always admire those who do these initial reviews, looking at each and every factor. I wouldn't be able to do it. Ofcourse there might be some partiality creeping in depending on what our favourite car/brand is, but that is unavoidable. Car mags do it for money/favours, we might do it because we like the brand. And however much we might deny it, 99.99% of the members do have a soft corner for some car/brand, which in most cases would be the one we own/owned/use/used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteKnight
If anyone indeed have a problem with the parameters used for the comparison, please go ahead an do your own "definitive" comparison. We would be happy to see that.
Sounds pretty logical. And while you are at it, do add a poll also to the thread between the City and Linea. Numbers are so much more better than 25 pages of words.
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:02   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
BTW, what is your take on safety rating? Is Linea less safe car since it doesn't offer ABS/Airbags in low end variants, or is it equally secure as AHNC since you get exactly same safety features at same price
Well, you need to give Honda credit for having safety features across the board on all variants. Just like we lampooned them for not having them on the lower variants of the NHC. It works both ways, right.

And if the City has safety features on all its variants, while Linea has it only on the top-end variants, I would think that more points should go to City for safety. Ofcourse, we would end up again in an indefinite debate if we start discussing exactly how many points should be deducted for Linea for this.

Given the general purchase behaviour in India currently where people shrug off safety features when they come as options, I think it is a good thing if these are available as standard. How many buy the Swift-Zxi taking advantage of the airbags, ABS etc ? How many take the ABS option even with the VXi & VDi ? So, to answer your question, in India where most people would buy the lower variants, the Linea would be less safer than the City.
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:11   #281
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Well, you need to give Honda credit for having safety features across the board on all variants.
Very true but at what price?

I think both Linea & City should get the same points for safety.
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:17   #282
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Given the general purchase behaviour in India currently where people shrug off safety features when they come as options, I think it is a good thing if these are available as standard. How many buy the Swift-Zxi taking advantage of the airbags, ABS etc ? How many take the ABS option even with the VXi & VDi ? So, to answer your question, in India where most people would buy the lower variants, the Linea would be less safer than the City.
I read an article recently where a Fiat India official said that most demand is of the Emotion Pack for Linea and even they didnot estimate it accordingly. So, in the manufactured stock, they have available Dynamic and Active models, but there is waiting time for Emotion Pack. So, I think we generalize too much about people will only buy the low-end spec - depends on the pricing and the value, right ?
OTOH, as I posted earlier, Fiat should have provided ABS and Airbags as options on all variants (if not made them standard as Honda as commendably done for the ANHC). They could have priced the options with the right margins, and also given choice to the consumers.
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:19   #283
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Very true but at what price?

I think both Linea & City should get the same points for safety.

if there a rating parameter called VFM or pricing - then we can give poor rating for ANHC over there

but the safety parameter should not get mixed up with price point. otherwise the scoring gets all mixed up.
so on safety - if a car is giving all safety features it SHOULD rank high. if that is coming at a price, that will be taken care of in the pricing parameter
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Old 28th January 2009, 15:26   #284
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I thought the debate was about safety features and the rating each car should get for safety and not about price.

While I do agree that Honda is overpriced (especially the ANHC), there are other factors that decide price than just features. In Fiat's case, they are the underdogs here and Linea would be make or break for them - so they have no option but to price it well. But in the case of Honda, they are segment leaders and they know that their cars are bought even at a premium to the competition, so they can afford it to be priced high. Also add the sorry reputation that Fiat has here to the equation and that would explain the price difference.

@suman, when I mentioned in another thread that the ANHC is grossly overpriced (close to a lakh more) than its predecessor, you said that the increase is justified given the extras that come for the price.

EDIT: @narayan, you have summed it up brilliantly.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 28th January 2009 at 15:27.
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Old 28th January 2009, 16:26   #285
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@suman, when I mentioned in another thread that the ANHC is grossly overpriced (close to a lakh more) than its predecessor, you said that the increase is justified given the extras that come for the price.
I would still say that it is - compared to the NHC

Here what I'm saying is - its easy for an overpriced car (if the ANHC is that) to plonk in ABS & Airbags across the range. Reason why I'm putting Linea & ANHC at par on the safety rating is - if you're going to compare two cars, one of which has multiple variants in two separate engine options, then the least subjective (just my opinion, we may differ) way of doing a proper comparo would be between the absolute top end variants of both.
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