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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
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Old 28th January 2009, 20:47   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post

Sir, I own a Ford Ikon & Chevy Tavera! I beleive I am free to comment since I dont belong to your so called Emerging Pattern in this thread! !
You would have been welcome to comment even if you were owning a Fiat as long as your attitude is to have a constructive discussion and your views not guided by the brand you own or like. The nature of this comparion was to keep it as fair as possible to both cars. This didnt go down well with bhpians leaning towards Fiat and some of the attacks became personal doubting my very intent on writing this review. I tried to keep it civil but was left with no choice when some members retorted to name calling. For the record I am a member of this forum since 2005, dont own either Honda or Fiat. Loved Fiat for bringing in the 1.6 sports, and would hate to see them leave Indian market as less competition means less good deals and choice for the customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
To me, the interiors of the Linea was plush and gave me a premium car feel. It looks and feels defenitely more expensive than those low quality materials used in the City! But if thats your opinion, then you remind me only of your previous thread!
Have you even read my review before you came here claiming things... I closely observed the quality of materials of both cars back to back, and made the following observation in my review. The interiors of the car and materials used are from plush and premium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aseem
The interior of Linea is not as exciting as the exterior. Having said that its not a dissapointment either. At the first look the biege interior look great, the seats have good thigh support, the doors close with the traditional fiat thud, the central console has soo many gizmos to play with. But on a closer look, you'd find cost cutting is evident here. And its quite noticeable too. The quality of plastic users specially on the door panels with black and biege scheme is not upmarket. Now the problem with Linea is that it makes you feel that its an expensive car, so you automatically start expecting high quality finish and material. Whereas since the car is not priced exhorbitantly, its quite obvious that the material used is not of high quality.
I however gave more marks to Lineas interior than to Honda City in the first comparison. However a second back to back comparison, I found more cost cutting in Linea when I looked and inspected interiors more closely. Thus I divided the review in two seperate categories, Interior Quality and Features. In features I gave Linea an outright 5 and in Interior I gave it less than City, as in my judgement the quality of materials looks suspect. Before you jump the gun and call my logic flawed, suspect, and biased, here is what some of the other Bhpians have to say about Linea interiors. Of course they havent been as vocal like some Fiat proponents and nor have they repeatedly posted in threads trying to push an agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSS
The fit and finish of interior plastics are questionable, as the glove box already was hanging loose, and the rear armrest felt quite tacky. Ultimately it boils down to the price equation, and Fiat sure has priced it damn well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrash
I tried to open the bonnet and with a little force, the lever came with my hand. I was able to fix it myself but it showed the quality
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC
Some of the plastics, such as those on the seat adjustment controls and the seat belt receiving piece could have been a bit better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RahulKool
interior are good but plastics could have been little better.
Than you ask this question

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Did you check the Palio or the Linea before you did this comparo?! I feel only sarcasm in your post!
Well I didnt check the Palio dude, but as I had mentioned before Palio is from Baleno Esteem era kind of interiors. Definitely Linea is ahead when compared to Palio, but when you pit it against competition of today, with Honda Civic, Corolla, SX4 (dash shape), ANHC, NHC the dash does look dated. I am not the only one who thinks this. A very respected Bhpian Steeriod has this to add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aseem
The steering is nice, leather wrapped and meaty, but awkwardly looks kind of old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Must say the Linea centre console and steering look pretty dated, almost as though they come from another era.
The interiors of Linea are taken from Grande Punto which has been doing duty internationally since 2005. Its been 4 years already, so definitely the interiors are showing their age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix
The quality of materials used in the Linea interiors were not just better, its much superior to the quality of the materials in the ANHC.
They say a picture speaks a thousand words.... so here is the interior picture of both cars...

Name:  interior.jpg
Views: 752
Size:  101.4 KB
Linea vs City Comparison Report-interior-city.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I wonder whats the whole point in trying to make Linea look bad!
Your post is written in bad taste and your disagreements are personal in nature, however I dont want to make this discussion less civil. This is a hotly debated topic as its a very closely matched contest in many respects. If you have problems with accepting a particular rating, like a respected Bhpian pointed out, ignore this review, or better yet, write your own comparison.

BTW its not an attempt to taint Linea, as I have highlighted several of its quality and even said that those looking for Diesel would primarily choose Linea. Many bhpians who are neutral to both cars have appreciated the effort and primarilly they are my audience. Feel free to respond but I am done arguing here as I dont want to get dragged in to endless debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvation
well written comparison.You have taken into account every aspect - safety,driveability,resale,exterior,interior,featu res e.t.c.
would be nice if you add service costs, accidental repair costs into account as well!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels
This is one fine and detailed comparison. Thanks Aseem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazmaan
Great comparison almost felt as if I was reading some genuine auto magazine
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOLT
Superbly written review. Which ever car scores more is indeed a bit subjective, but Honda deserves kudos just for the fact that they have provided ABS and airbags as standard. I dont think it would cost Fiat much to do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
I enjoyed reading it, quite nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom
Fascinating comparison, and excellent write up. Thank you.

Last edited by aseem : 28th January 2009 at 20:59.
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Old 28th January 2009, 20:56   #287
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@aseem... Prejudice.. oh yes sir! The interior shot for Honda is from the press image while the Linea one comes from probably a mobile cam in rubbish lightening.
Can you please post Linea interior image from Fiat's press release image and then we compare.
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Old 28th January 2009, 21:09   #288
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@Aseem, what are you trying to prove by showing 2 pictures, one taken from probably a mobile camera by an amateur (Linea) and another nice glossy picture taken from official website/brochure snapped by a Pro (AHNC) ? You don't have to do that to prove your point.

It is very easy to selectively quote people, when that's convenient to you. For every bit of appreciation, there has been fair bit of criticism (not flaming by "Fan boys") over this thread. Repeating those quotes again doesn't serve any purpose.

Also a bit about very respected T-BHPian note of yours! How come you have conveniently forgotten about two other distinguished T-BHPians who disagreed with your opinions?

I don't think you need to do all this. You did a good job by starting this thread with detailed description and your own version of ratings, but then not every word written by you can become a gospel truth and hence, not debatable.

On a public forum, people are bound to disagree with you.
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Old 28th January 2009, 21:33   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
@Aseem, what are you trying to prove by showing 2 pictures, one taken from probably a mobile camera by an amateur (Linea) and another nice glossy picture taken from official website/brochure snapped by a Pro (AHNC) ? You don't have to do that to prove your point.

It is very easy to selectively quote people, when that's convenient to you. For every bit of appreciation, there has been fair bit of criticism (not flaming by "Fan boys") over this thread. Repeating those quotes again doesn't serve any purpose.

Also a bit about very respected T-BHPian note of yours! How come you have conveniently forgotten about two other distinguished T-BHPians who disagreed with your opinions?

I don't think you need to do all this. You did a good job by starting this thread with detailed description and your own version of ratings, but then not every word written by you can become a gospel truth and hence, not debatable.

On a public forum, people are bound to disagree with you.
The thing I wanted to highlight is whereas appreciation is muted, critisicms are loud and is mostly coming from same people. They either owning Fiat or leaning towards it (which is perfectly fine as long as they are civil and constructive). I didnt know that they owned Fiat, I just checked their profiles after reading some their posts which I felt were subjective in nature.

So I thought I'd highlight albeit selectively that my observations are not in isolation or fabricated. There are a substancial group that found the same things as I did.

The interior pictures were taken from Google for City and TBHP for Linea. As rightly pointed out, the City picture quality is glossy, so it might appear unfair. Therefore I am posting more pictures taken from Tbhpians for City using a regular camera and no glossiness etc.

I do not wish to spoil the spirit of the forum and sincerely urge everybody to post their views in a civil manner.

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Linea vs City Comparison Report-inside-city.jpg  

Linea vs City Comparison Report-inside-city-2.jpg  

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Old 28th January 2009, 21:51   #290
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Just to make comparison fair -
And ya i believe City's interiors are more bright and lively.
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Linea vs City Comparison Report-fiatlineainterior.jpg  

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Last edited by harry10 : 28th January 2009 at 21:54.
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Old 28th January 2009, 21:58   #291
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Well Aseem, If there is criticism, it is well deserved. While i have no complains about the rest of the ratings - the rating on Safety & Interiors seem way too frivolous to me and a lot of others (not just FIAT owners).

Safety : As a user i take a price point (lets say 8.3L ex showroom), and then compare what i get in that price point. I get a City S model for it and a Linea Emotion Plus for it. Now, the safety level is similar and rating should be the same. Why compare across price points? In fact City should get lesser points due to poor braking.

Interiors - i found the dials (a/c) for City downright cheap & tacky. The same looks classy in Linea. Most reputed magazine (ACI,OD,Top Gear,What Car) mention the interiors of Linea are better than any C segment sedan (including City). But you find the funny reason that fabric can get dirty & then substantiate it by posting a bad pic & a good pic . I would believe at least magazines are less biased than you.

You are entitled to your views, and so are others. if someone points out your logic is flawed, just don't take it personally. I would think that this is a healthy debate rather than any personal attack.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 28th January 2009 at 22:04.
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Old 28th January 2009, 22:12   #292
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Nice Linea pics there Harsh, Thanks!
And if still someone says that Linea central console & steering looks dated, he must be kidding!

Well said Skywalker.
Aseem, If you share a review / comparison on a discussion forum like T-BHP, some will agree, some will disagree for genuine reasons.
If you don't like that, maybe you can blog it somewhere on the net.
Also you own a Honda, so there will be a certain bias towards Honda!
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Old 28th January 2009, 22:16   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Well Aseem, If there is criticism, it is well deserved. While i have no complains about the rest of the ratings - the rating on Safety & Interiors seem way too frivolous to me and a lot of others (not just FIAT owners).

Safety : As a user i take a price point (lets say 8.3L ex showroom), and then compare what i get in that price point. I get a City S model for it and a Linea Emotion Plus for it. Now, the safety level is similar and rating should be the same. Why compare across price points? In fact City should get lesser points due to poor braking.

Interiors - i found the dials (a/c) for City downright cheap & tacky. The same looks classy in Linea. Most reputed magazine (ACI,OD,Top Gear,What Car) mention the interiors of Linea are better than any C segment sedan (including City). But you find the funny reason that fabric can get dirty & then substantiate it by posting a bad pic & a good pic . I would believe at least magazines are less biased than you.

You are entitled to your views, and so is others. if someone points out your logic is flawed, just don't take it personally. I would think that this is a healthy debate rather than any personal attack.
Well its too easy criticize, and retort to name calling, as you did in your very first post in this thread calling things a joke. You perhaps think that writing things in bold makes your arguments stronger Criticism is healthy as long as its in the right spirit, however you didnt display the right spirit perhaps as being a Fiat owner you took Honda coming on top personally. If anything, your views are more biased than me, as you own a Palio and I am neither associated with Fiat or Honda.

Interiors: The Linea interiors are more loaded feature wise, even I have mentioned it and in the first reivew gave it a higher rating. But on close inspection I find the quality suspect and interiors slightly dated as do many bhpians. The fabric used is very downmarket as well, its not just the beige color. If you'd have spent more to read the review than getting excited and flaming the review, you would have realized that I myself have pointed out the poor quality door panel for power windows and ac controls in ANHC being downmarket.

Safety: I feel that Honda chose the higher road, and so do many Bhpians like SupremeBaleno by making safety mandatory. They could have priced their car at 7 lakhs ex showroom and not given airbags and abs. But they have set a precedent in C segment. Why compare the S model, why not compare the 7.5 Lakh ex showroom E model? Unfortunately in India you would find more ppl interested in stereo than safety, therefore manfacturers should make safety mandatory. If Fiat had done that I would have given them full 5.

I am done debating with you further....

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Just to make comparison fair -
And ya i believe City's interiors are more bright and lively.
Its a right hand drive car, the quality of interiors of Linea and quality of material used is not the same as European spec. Now that I have uploaded real pictures of both cars, the arguments should stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Nice Linea pics there Harsh, Thanks!
And if still someone says that Linea central console & steering looks dated, he must be kidding!

Well said Skywalker.
Aseem, If you share a review / comparison on a discussion forum like T-BHP, some will agree, some will disagree for genuine reasons.
If you don't like that, maybe you can blog it somewhere on the net.
Also you own a Honda, so there will be a certain bias towards Honda!
For the record, I dont own a Honda but you most definitely own a Fiat. And I am quite capable of discussing and putting my point across. I suggest you should be more open in accepting criticism about Fiat and its cars. Else I suggest you join a Fiat Owners/Lovers yahoo group or something

Last edited by aseem : 28th January 2009 at 22:23.
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Old 28th January 2009, 22:24   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
@aseem
I am also curious when team-bhpians (even Auto magazines ) say about the quality of plastics in a certain car.

In your case did you go by the 'feel' of the plastics, which is basically a perception of quality? Becasue quality of plastics has many other dimensions from engineering pespective. What we can see and feel are the colour, texture(grain) and the hardness of the plastic used.

We can also see the fit and finish (like spalshes and panel gaps) but they have less to do with the quality of plastic and mostly decided by the pecision of the moulds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post

Interiors - i found the dials (a/c) for City downright cheap & tacky. The same looks classy in Linea. Most reputed magazine (ACI,OD,Top Gear,What Car) mention the interiors of Linea are better than any C segment sedan (including City). But you find the funny reason that fabric can get dirty & then substantiate it by posting a bad pic & a good pic . I would believe at least magazines are less biased than you.
Are we talking about percieved quality of plastics or actual quality? Magazines tend to comment based on what they percive. Of course the feel of plastics and other materials is very important but it does'nt end there.
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Old 28th January 2009, 22:46   #295
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Having sat in the Linea, ANHC and the Fiesta S - one after the other - and soaked in the interiors for about 20 mins in each car - I would rate the quality of plastics used in this order - 1. Fiesta 2. Linea 3. ANHC.

In fact I was more comfortable in the Fiesta and Linea than in the ANHC - in the seats and driving position too. The space inside is almost the same - ANHC feels more spacious only because of the Biege colored interior.

Rear seat comfort for all 3 are the same - very constricted.
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Old 28th January 2009, 23:51   #296
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well said Normally_crazy. people only look at the looks and forget the usage part. I too find the fiesta's interiors to be awesome but understated. The mettallic inserts on both the linea and ANHC are yucky and done in a haste it seems. The curvy central airvents and the chunky steering are awesome ( I Like the ikon steering more though)

I wonder how the Linea has lesser interior space with more outer length. It too is a current gen car and should be making good use of space.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 28th January 2009 at 23:53.
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Old 29th January 2009, 00:09   #297
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
T-BHPian
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Aseem, the very fact that you have so many replies and that this thread is so hot means you have done a very good comparison. Biased or not, thats being debated upon. If you are biased towards the City, some others are biased towards the Linea, so guess things even out.

You have your points but many of the posts here are equally valid as well. So take things in the right spirit and continue the good work!

I'm a fan of the Linea for its pluses but I guess Honda's biggest plus is that generations of Citys have proved reliable and trouble free, hence resale is great. Same cannot be said of Fiats. It is terribly overpriced for what it offers though, dont think you will disagree here. Its almost at the Civic/Corolla price band.
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Old 29th January 2009, 00:24   #298
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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post

I wonder how the Linea has lesser interior space with more outer length. It too is a current gen car and should be making good use of space.
Well this is what amazed me & I had posted on another Linea thread - the one pre-launch. ACI in its comprehensive test report on Linea has shown rear+front leg room which is same as the Ikon!! Here are the comparative numbers for a quick dekko

Car : Length : Wheelbase
Ikon : 4140mm : 2486mm
Linea : 4560mm : 2603mm

I even doubted if there was some typo in the ACI figures for the legroom, but from various tbhp reports, it maybe actually the case. I like the Linea a lot, but it seems to have sacrificed a good amount of practicality for styling and shape (also the rear headroom factor) ?
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Old 29th January 2009, 00:26   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I am done debating with you further....
Should've done that long back. You have posted your review of the two cars and people are free to disagree. In the case of this brand, we know who the usual suspects will be and what they will have to say so there are no great surprises there either.

Dont bother argueing with people who have some very fundamental beliefs that you cannot change. Just state your case and leave it at that for the benefit of those who may find some use for it.

Last edited by Steeroid : 29th January 2009 at 00:27.
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Old 29th January 2009, 01:52   #300
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Well, i OWN NHC and flattered by FIAT LINEA looks + DIESEL ENGINE DUE TO HIGH DEISEL FE but I am very much concerned about quality of FIAT cars and after sales service because we all know TATA MOTORS shaddy practices in various threads here.

Hell, very first reason I am scared to death for buying FIAT is because its guarantee and service will be offered by TATA MOTORS. Yes TATA MOTORS! They are known for their worst after sales service and famous for treating their customers like thugs. Just look at varun roy's thread and my personal experience with TATA group of companies.

Also, I am sure it will have less resale value then HONDA city because honda is honda and the brand has proven itself. Where as FIAT is FAILED BRAND in India.

So, No matter what you say, FIAT is yet to prove itself in India and I will refrain anyone from buying LINEA before its real life report is out. Let people buy it and drive it, buy it next year for the safe side, otherwise its your money and you have right to do whatever you want with it.
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