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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17th January 2009, 19:58   #31
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Originally Posted by amit View Post

In any case, Linea will never outsell Honda City. So what's the point of all this comparisions? The only car that's going to get slaughtered by the Linea is the Fiesta. SX4, Verna and even Logan may take a hit to some extent but not the City.
The other day when I was discussing the Linea release with a few colleagues, most of them didn't give it a second thought to it. Reason - FIAT. And when I said it is in the C/C+ segment competing against Honda City, Fiesta and Verna, there response was spontaneous. Is it competing with Honda? Honda is Honda man!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post

City is a very wrong and overambitious target for the Linea. It looks like its more in Fiesta/Verna territory. Perhaps that would be a more realistic comparison but there it would be blasted out by the Verna in the engine department and outclassed by the Ford on interior quality.
True! As has been stated before Fiesta is the mostly likely car to suffer. Let's wait and watch.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:01   #32
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One more thing I would like to add, I have never seen such a buzz in a Fiat/Tata Showroom. Mostly ppl coming to have a look at Linea. So certainly this car can hopefully revive Fiat's fortune in India. It does set a benchmark for many categories in its segment and has definitely upped the bar.

Lastly lets not make this a Fiat or a Honda bashing thread. Both are great cars so lets keep the discussions academic rather than getting emotional over the cars we like. I for one definitely want this car to suceed as I would be very unhappy if Fiat were to pack their bags and leave.

Last edited by aseem : 17th January 2009 at 20:11.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:10   #33
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
One more thing I would like to add, I have never seen such a buzz in a Fiat/Tata Showroom. Mostly ppl coming to have a look at Linea. So certainly this car can hopefully revive Fiat's fortune in India. It does set a benchmark for many categories in its segment and has definitely upped the bar.

Lastly lets not make this a Fiat or a Honda bashing thread. Both are great cars so lets keep the discussions academic rather than getting emotional over the cars we like. I for one definitely want this car to suceed as I would be very unhappy if Fiat were to bag their bags and leave.
Well said. I think this thread also marks a sort of "coming of age" for Senior BHPian aseem.

Great job, aseem! I've rated the thread.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:21   #34
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
One more thing I would like to add, I have never seen such a buzz in a Fiat/Tata Showroom. Mostly ppl coming to have a look at Linea. So certainly this car can hopefully revive Fiat's fortune in India. It does set a benchmark for many categories in its segment and has definitely upped the bar.

Lastly lets not make this a Fiat or a Honda bashing thread. Both are great cars so lets keep the discussions academic rather than getting emotional over the cars we like. I for one definitely want this car to suceed as I would be very unhappy if Fiat were to bag their bags and leave.
+1 to that. I like good cars, I don't care what stable they come from. I like ford mondeo, hyundai i10, maruti swift, honda city, skoda vrs, gm optra tdci, mahindra classic and now fiat linea. There's no point claiming the superiority of one car over another (even in the same segment), each car caters to a certain niche who might have their own reasons to prefer one over another and rightly so.

Hope fiat gets it's act together this time and the linea becomes the success it deserves to be.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:32   #35
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
... but its not a drivers car by any criteria. The car is heavy and the MJD which famously does duty in the Swift struggles to pull a car thats nearly 1300 kg kerb weight. ...
Having driven the 1.6 S10 for quite some time now, I can fully agree to that part. With the superb handling & ride quality (as reported by more than one car magazine) it would be a pleasure to have the power of 120+ horses under the hood.

Quote:
.. Fiat has begun their second innnings in India and I hope things get better!.
More better cars & competition is always better for customers. LINEA will probably NEVER outsell the HONDA or maybe other cars -- but it could for sure force them to come out of their comfort zone.

I really hope & pray that FIAT doesn't mess up this time. The LINEA & other planned cars deserve better than what FIAT have managed till now.
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Old 17th January 2009, 21:26   #36
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I hope you appreciate the effort to collate ideas and write a review, before you jump the gun and call someones difference of opinion a joke!
well, a joke is a joke, whether it takes 2 years to write or not. When you write something which many in the forum disagrees (safety) to and calls it a "definitive" comparison, dunno what else to say

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I don't think its fair to compare the Linea FIRE engine with the iVtec of Honda at all.
I agree. And its fair that you reduced points for engine here. (if i understand right 2.5/5 for the engine). fair enough. I also agree wholeheartedly that hardly any enthusiast will go for Linea due to ordinary engines.

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
But they didn't give user an option to choose safety versus low initial cost. This might result in loss of sale but they have set the precedence imo that needs to be appreciated.
And the point i am saying is that Honda can afford to (due to the brand value), and FIAT cant risk to loss any potential sale here. Compare the S model and Emotion+ and you will see that FIAT provides the same safety features and lesser price, so your logic is flawed.

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I can promise you that not many will opt for the Diesel Emotion Plus or Petrol Emotion Plus pack (Just like we have more Swift Vxi than Zxi on road).
Bingo! And manufacturers would bring out airbags/ABS in lowest price variants when at least the models with airbags sell half as much as the models without it. If Janta don't want safety - who is to argue with the customer?

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Everyone has the right to disagree and I appreciate that
me too, as long as people think their views aren't "definitive" for everyone else too

Last edited by SkyWalker : 17th January 2009 at 21:27.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:06   #37
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why dont we have a poll on this topic i.e. Linea vs ANHC.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:24   #38
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Linea Safety
The top Emotion Option pack model gets Airbags, ABS/EDB, 3 point seat belt system. But Fiat has left us wanting here, specially as Honda has done a one up on them as providing ABS and Airbags as standard on all varians. Fiat does not give an option to have Airbags even in Dynamic variant and they dont come as standard in Emotion. Its not a move that I like, as I dont think Indians should be given an option of safety or saving the buck. Force safety like Honda even if it means increased price.

Safety Rating: 2.5/5 (As I dont see many buying Emotion Option Pack)
Aseem, a good review with comparision in all aspects.

Suppose if one is contemplating the emotion pack variant of linea with ANHC S variant, what rating would you give to the safety parameter of Linea?

Last edited by vvrchandra : 17th January 2009 at 22:25.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:25   #39
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Default The only reason it might not sell in large numbers

Other than TATA service the only other thing that can kill the Linea is the extremely underpowered engines both petrol and diesel. I had sent umpteen number of sms and emails to Mangesh to influence the FIAT think tank to put in the 1.6jtd engine but they have not complied and the result is for all to see who have taken a test ride.
I had suggested that they put in the 1.6 engine from the GTX for the Petrol version and for the diesel the 1.6jtd engine.

Fiat Bravo: All the strengths of the new 1.6 Multijet 16v engine

Alas they have gambled heavily and hope and pray they succeed.
There is a possibilty that they will get out the 1.6jtd in the Grand Punto sometime in April/May and if so thats going to be in my stable in lieu of the GTX which I will sell off then.
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Old 17th January 2009, 23:45   #40
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post

There is a possibilty that they will get out the 1.6jtd in the Grand Punto sometime in April/May and if so thats going to be in my stable in lieu of the GTX which I will sell off then.
Amen to that Doctor! By the way, got in touch with a guy responsible for the development of the indian version of the Grande Punto at the Linea launch. Let me tell you, that guy was as passionate as any of us here on this forum, an absolute enthusiast. And he is honing the car to be a driver's delight. According to him, the GP is a better drive than the Palio and will be complimented with befitting engines. Did not reveal much about the engines that will be available at launch, but said that the GP "may" get a performance variant. Also, it will not be launched before June/July '09 timeframe.

P.S. - There are people from Fiat visiting team-bhp on a regular basis and taking feedback. Good sign that.

Last edited by roms : 17th January 2009 at 23:48.
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Old 18th January 2009, 00:06   #41
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Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
While I agree with most of the review, here is my take on this comparison-

1. You have given 2.5 for the linea on the safety parameter, assuming that most people will not go in for the emotion pack version. However in my case, if I do get myself a linea, it will be the emotion pack version which has ABS and airbags. So just like the city, my rating on that front would be 4.5. This makes it 19.5 for the linea and 19 for the city.

2. I would also include another parameter- FE and keep it separate from engine or driveability. I would rate the linea as 4.5 on this front and the city as 3 or 3.5. This would make it 24 for the linea and 22 for the city.

3. Lastly, I'm sot sure if I would add up all the ratings to come up with an overall rating. In a generic comparison, maybe I would, but realistically, I would give different weightage to each of these parameters. In my case, outright power and accereleration is not half as important as safety, FE or build quality (and the linea scores better on the last 2 points). I try to stick to the speed limits as much as possible, which means most of the time I do 40-60 within city limits and 80-100 on the highways. I'm sure there are others for whom it might be the other way round so it all boils down to individual prferences.

I agree completly, most of the bhpians have booked emotion pack only.....

Also, the suspension of linea is far ahead than the city hence linea should get more points on the engine and driveability , same should ofcourse be deducted out of the city.


One important point which we might be missing here.... Linea petrol emotion pack on road bangalore is 8.27 and Honda SMT on road bangalore is 9.77 a difference of 1.5 lakhs...

agreed that Linea petrol is still not available and hence the comparison on that might have to wait for a month or so...
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Old 18th January 2009, 00:18   #42
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Out of interest, how come 90 (or is it 85?) bhp on the Linea feels slow when there are other sedans like the Fiesta with 68bhp engines that seem to be doing pretty okay? I've heard of comparisons with the Verna where the Fiesta comes across as slowER, but I've never heard that car being labelled SLOW..
As per ACI, Linea has much better roll-on figures, both in 20-80 in 3rd gear and 40-100 in 4th gear, than even much more powerful AHNC (and Diesel Verna too, I suppose).

Based on my experience with Fiat and non-Fiat cars, Fiat cars always feel slower than their actual speed (just like many Fords feel faster than their actual speed). Not sure if it has anything to do with the cocooned feel inside cabin. Others will vouch for this.

And though Aseem is entitled to his views, rating safety at 2.5/5 just because lowest end variant doesn't have ABS /Airbags is bit too hard to digest. May be higher end variants of the same car will score much better on safety count.

Last edited by RX135 : 18th January 2009 at 00:22.
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Old 18th January 2009, 00:25   #43
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There are 4 parallel threads currently on this forum, all about Linea , and 2 threads comparing City Vs Linea. Mods! cheers:

Why City is being chosen to compete with this car in the thread titles? Linea will affect sales of all C & C+ segment cars which include Dzire, Logan, Aveo, SX4, Fiesta, Verna, Cedia & even Magnum! So, why not start a thread for Linea Vs each car?

Moreover, people are jumping to give ratings of 19/20 OR 20/25 without TD of petrol version! which actually should be compared with ANHC.

Had linea been launched in July'08 (which was the original launch schedule as per FIAT at Auto expo'08), I wonder how the same people would have compared it to the 77bhp NHC ( Airbags/ABS ???) with Linea variants?

But there comes Verna (FL) with ABS/ Airbags ... ..again comparisons will start....VFM etc... & then T-jet from FIAT... , no doubt ivtec is a futuristic engine & with ABS & Airbags, Honda has rights to overcharge!

BTW, got an SMS from a HONDA dealer, 1.5 EMT available for Rs.7.499 lacs ex-showroom Delhi, ... Linea effect , it was Rs.7.7 lacs earlier.

Now, what price will Hyundai decide for new(FL) Verna? Another thread ?
Just my 2 cents

Last edited by breezydrive : 18th January 2009 at 00:27.
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Old 18th January 2009, 01:00   #44
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Hey, neat write up and thanks for taking the time and effort to compare the two cars. "Jokes" apart, how is the build quality of the Linea? I've always been impressed with their build quality and hope the tradition continues? Also is the diesel engine very noisy or pretty ok.
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Old 18th January 2009, 01:10   #45
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An excellent comparo, and a lot of mature responses. I was getting tired of this Fiat vs Honda thing.

I can see Tata-Fiat pushing hard. They have been selective in choosing their dealers for the Linea and yet ensured it is being sold in Meerut, Karnal and other smaller towns. They have opened two new dealerships in NCR (Rama and ABS Motors).

The biggest asset that the Linea has is a diesel engine and a frugal one. I know most TBHP-ians are disappointed with the performance, but we are a minority. Having a frugal diesel engine immediately widens the potential market. A case in point is the Fiesta, whose diesel variant heavily outnumbers the petrol one on Delhi-NCR roads atleast.

Fiat is associated with poor FE by most people in India, which is quite ironical considering they have given the MJD technology to others. I can see Tata-Fiat not wanting to take a chance with that one, hence, the target for an engine with class-leading FE and least running costs.

It will probably not outsell the City, anyway. Which makes me wonder how many more Hondas could have sold in India if they had competent and frugal diesel engines?
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