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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19th February 2009, 23:16   #496
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Yes, when you have no facts or anything substantial to share, all you can do is pass sarcastic remarks!
Not really! Sarcasm hits you the most only when it involves truth.
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Old 19th February 2009, 23:52   #497
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*post removed because there is no point*
Finally you got around to the point that there isnt any point... save your arguments for some other thread... this isnt the place.
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Old 19th February 2009, 23:57   #498
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
To me this is unwanted sarcasm.
We must disagree. To me it is saying it like it is. What I've written here is pretty much what happens day in and day out for some people. Denying it would be denying the most obvious phenomenon on this forum.

What exactly is unwanted - the sarcasm or the subject of it?

I would think its the latter.

Why do I say this? For about 3 years now we've heard the same bunch of people go on and on about the Linea like it was the ultimate car in the world. There were hundreds of threads on Linea this and Grande Punto that. People who owned the Palio seemed to believe that they have this automatic, god-given right to talk about these two cars (Baby Maserati, BAH!) without anyone disputing what they said. Regardless of the fact that the Palio and the Linea have nothing in common. People driving that underpowered 1.2 Palio automatically spoke authoritatively on these cars like they had made them in their backyards. Nevermind that the 1.2 wouldnt hold its own against my 55 year old 1.1 in either power deliver or mileage or sheer driving pleasure. It was assumed that owning Fiat gave you ownership of the brand.

Now the car is out, and frankly WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT! For all that tall talk it fails to deliver power, driveability, usable space or consistent interior quality.

Read up all the threads leading up to the launch of this car and then sit in that car. You will realize where I'm coming from.

In my opinion, these people are Fiat's biggest enemies.

Last edited by Steeroid : 20th February 2009 at 00:08.
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Old 20th February 2009, 00:47   #499
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Default Changing tacks

I received an interesting phone call yesterday (Wednesday).

One of my friends was toying with the idea of buying an ANHC. He popped into the Honda showroom and according to him, the supercilious attitude of the guys there put him off. He was looking at anything from a Swift to just under a C Class. I told him to check out the Linea as it was a new car and was priced better than the ANHC.

He popped across to the notorious Tata-Fiat shop and had a dekko at the Linea. Then, he went back to the Tata-Fiat shop and had another dekko.

He called me yesterday that he had made up his mind. He was buying the 1.6 Palio Sport!

His logic - he pays about 60% of what he would have paid for the ANHC (his first choice), gets a more powerful and rugged car with interior space to match the ANHC. He says the higher resale value and FE of the Honda dont work out in his favour once he considers the savings in initial cost and the interest thereon.

I am thrilled to bits as he has promised to let me use it when he is not in town \/ !

Changing tack now.

I was one of those who was genuinely happy to see this thread regain an even keel and lose some of the acrimony. At one point of time, the direction of the suggestions in the posts had me worried sick. I refer in particular to a proposal aired herein, that members who own or have previously owned a vehicle made by a manufacturer or company are somehow biased and/or disqualified from commenting on products from that manufactgurer or company.

Over the years I have owned or used:

1.Lambretta,
Then made by API under license from Innocenti, Government of India obtained limited rights to the brand name ‘Lambretta and passed it on to Scooters India Ltd. Which sold Lambrettas as ‘Vijai’ in India. After an association with British Leyland, the brand finally passed to Fiat.

2 Jawa,
Made in collaboration with a Czech manufacturer of motorcycles. The evolved version was later sold as the Yezdi in India

3 Ambassador,
Made by Hindustan Motors, from the Morris Oxford Series III. Morris went on to become a part of the British Motor Company or BMC, BMC became a part of British Leyland’s Austin-Rover group which was bought by BMW and became a part of MG Rover which was taken over by Ford and sold recently to Tata. Today Hindustan Motors makes the Cedia through a tie-up with Mitshubishi.

4. Standard Herald,
Basically a Triumph Herald, which was made by Standard Triumph which became a part of the Specialist Division of British Leyland. The Triumph trademark was retained by BMW while the rest of the group went on to be eventually bought by Tata.

5. Plymouth Savoy Station wagon,
Made by a division of the Chrysler Corporation, which went on to become the Daimler Chrysler AG on being purchased by Daimler Benz, makers of the Mercedes Benz range. It was later sold, and remains independent. Chrysler corporation has/had tie ups with Tata Motors and Fiat.

6. Standard Gazel, (same as Standard Herald above)

7 P.President,
The venerable Fiat 1100 Delight or 1100D, made by Fiat S.p.A. Fiat group includes Ferrari, Iveco, Maserati, Abarath, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Fiat is the owner of the Multi-Jet technology for Diesel engines and manufactures the Diesel engine used by the Suzuki-Swift.

8. Ind-Suzuki - Supra,
A joint venture between TVS group who now make the TVS motorcycles and Suzuki Motor Corporation make the famous Hayabusa motorcycles. Suzuki are also the major stake holder in Maruti Suzuki.

9. P.Padmini, (same as for Premier President above)

10. Premier 118NE,
A happy marriage between a Fiat 124 body and a Nissan A12 engine. Nissan made the Datsuns and makes the Infiniti vehicles. Nissan has a tie up with Renault and is involved in the Renault-Mahindra venture in India which makes the Logan.

11.Opel Corsa
From the Opel Corsa Series B, which was also sold as Buick Sail, Chevrolet Chevy, Chevrolet Classic, Chevrolet Corsa, Holden SB Barina, Opel Vita, Vauxhall Corsa. Opel is a part of the GM Stable and designs the Opel, Vauxhall and Saturn ranges. Some Isuzus are also sold as Opels. GMs other brands include Cadillac, Daewoo, GMC, Hummer, Pontiac.

12. Skoda Laura.
The Skoda Octavia worldwide. Made by Skoda which was acquired by Volkswagen in 1991 and the car is based on the VW A5 platform (Q35) which is the same as used in Audi A3, VW Golf, VW Jetta, SEAT Leon, SEAT Altea, VW Tiguan and VW Touran.

13. Maruti 800
A Suzuki Alto brought to India by a joint venture between Maruti and Suzuki. The company is now a subsidiary of the Suzuki Motor Corporation whose best known product is their iconic Hayabusa motorcycles.

That makes a total of 3 British, 3 Italian, 1 Jap+Italian, 1 Czech, 1 Germano-Czech, 1 German, 2 Japansese and 1 American product.

Courtesy the myriad mergers & acquisitions, marriages (made in heaven or otherwise), tie-ups, break-ups etc. There are a total of about 50 brands or manufacturers involved from across the globe, this is not counting the various design houses like Pininfarina, Bertone etc.

If that proposal resurfaces and finds favour in the forum - I would not be able to write about anything with wheels on it!

Cheers,

enjoy your drive, leave the quibbling to the politicians.
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Old 20th February 2009, 00:50   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
We must disagree. To me it is saying it like it is. What I've written here is pretty much what happens day in and day out for some people. Denying it would be denying the most obvious phenomenon on this forum.
Precisely and if it happens day in and day out and the people are relentless, better sense should prevail. I read your posts with great interest and you are one of the more sensible member here, the reason I am even more dissapointed.
You dont have to come in every FIAT thread and do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
What exactly is unwanted - the sarcasm or the subject of it?
I would think its the latter.
The post in context of the discussion that was going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Why do I say this? For about 3 years now we've heard the same bunch of people go on and on about the Linea like it was the ultimate car in the world.
And why would you have any problems with it. You are also guilty of the same when it comes to Scorpio Vs Tata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
People driving that underpowered 1.2 Palio automatically spoke authoritatively on these cars like they had made them in their backyards.
They are the owners and we arent so probably they know more about their cars than we do. Let them decide if its underpowered or not and if they are happy with their cars so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Now the car is out, and frankly WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT! For all that tall talk it fails to deliver power, driveability, usable space or consistent interior quality.
You can't quite have it all. I have test driven it and while it huffs and puffs in first two gears because they are very short for the reasons of luggability given that 1.3 JTD has the capacity disadvantage, third gear on its fine. Its not electric or fast but the power is more than enough for a sedate driver. So what if someone cars more for the looks than outright power, so what if someone wants to buy its just because it oh-so-gorgeous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Read up all the threads leading up to the launch of this car and then sit in that car. You will realize where I'm coming from.

In my opinion, these people are Fiat's biggest enemies.
I have driven it and frankly for the price its a mighty fine effort. Speculations leading up to the launch also said that the top end model would cross a million rupees. Its a bargain at that price if you look at other cars in the segment.
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Old 20th February 2009, 01:40   #501
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Default WOW a 1954 1100!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
. . . .

... Nevermind that the 1.2 wouldnt hold its own against my 55 year old 1.1 in either power deliver or mileage or sheer driving pleasure.
..... .
Wow is that a 1953 / 1954 Fiat, commonly known as the "dukkar" Fiat? Does it have a light in the centre of the grille?

I will take your statement about it being more powerful than the 1.2 Palio engine, with a pinch of salt - but agree totally on the sheer driving pleasure bit, which was enhanced by its RWD!

Do you still have that car?

Cheers,
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Old 20th February 2009, 02:35   #502
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A lot of people are arguing on the justification behind comparing the Linea and the City. And that is taking this "segment thing" too far. Segments are decided on many things, and that's what making it confusing to me, at least.

If the Linea is a "D" segment car with a "B" segment engine, then I would like to know how does one classify the NHC ("C" segment car with "B" segment engine?) or the Getz CRDi ("B" segment car with "D" segment engine?)

You pay "X" amount of money and get "Y" car. If you are happy with all that you get from it, buy it by all means.

Substitute "Y" with an "H", "H", "T' or "F", for that matter . This thread seems to be just a "badge-fight" now, no longer a "definitive comparison".
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Old 20th February 2009, 02:54   #503
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This is one of my favourite threads on team-bhp
Can we please get back "really" to the thread's topic ?

If there is nothing left to discover/discuss, i guess we should move on with our lives and request the moderators to perhaps close this thread.

Last edited by kcstheg : 20th February 2009 at 02:55.
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Old 20th February 2009, 08:58   #504
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A friend in my school group was looking for a car withing 3-4 lacs budget. Another pal suggested Honda City. His concept was to get a loan and when he sells the car he gets more money back so he doesnt really shell out the extra money.

My friend from college whose Honda Civic has been driven by me a lot wants to sell it coz it never gave him more than 8kmpl. Now I remember Honda fans shouting 10-12 kmpl FE for this car. Where's the dissapointment? Civic's in Ahmedabad are hardly fetching 7-8 compared to Octavia which hold upto 8-8.5.

The dissapointment is within the Indian mentality that what the others buy is always better. My neighbour buys a specific car doesnt mena I have to do the same.

Our old neighbours actually checked out a Mitsubishi Lancer and got a quote when we bought it.

Last edited by devarshi84 : 20th February 2009 at 09:00.
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Old 20th February 2009, 10:05   #505
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Wondering why all the uproar about this particular sarcastic post when no one seemed to bother earlier about the sarcastic remarks directed at other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra
His logic - he pays about 60% of what he would have paid for the ANHC (his first choice), gets a more powerful and rugged car with interior space to match the ANHC.
By that logic, if he had opted for an M800, he would have had to pay only maybe 25% of what he would have had to dish out for the City. But does that make any sense ? Ask your friend to compare apples with apples and then apply the price advantage and VFM theory.

And I am wondering about the 'more powerful' part. So, the Palio1.6 is more powerful than the ANHC ? Hmm. And while the Palio is 'rugged', everything else is made of straw. Oh, I forgot, the Palio is the only car that can even take on trains. No wonder it is rugged than anything else in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra
I refer in particular to a proposal aired herein, that members who own or have previously owned a vehicle made by a manufacturer or company are somehow biased and/or disqualified from commenting on products from that manufactgurer or company.
Boss, the way you put it makes it sound as if we are in Parliament and someone has put forth a proposal which will soon be written into law.

You might disagree, but 99% of us here would be having some bias (of varying magnitude) for or against some car(s) or manufacturer(s). More so when you have owned/used cars. Even those who have never owned/driven a car could be biased to a brand which in their opinion is good. And it takes only a few posts by a member to make out his bias.

But does being biased disqualify someone from posting here ? No. As long as you can support your posts with logic/evidence, you are OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
The dissapointment is within the Indian mentality that what the others buy is always better. My neighbour buys a specific car doesnt mena I have to do the same.
I don't think all Indians buy stuff because someone else has it. Maybe some might, but not the average guy. And BTW that is not an Indian mentality. It is seen worldwide and they even have a phrase for it in English - "Keeping up with the Joneses".
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Old 20th February 2009, 10:18   #506
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Originally Posted by kcstheg View Post
This is one of my favourite threads on team-bhp
Can we please get back "really" to the thread's topic ?

If there is nothing left to discover/discuss, i guess we should move on with our lives and request the moderators to perhaps close this thread.
I absolutely second my friend there, this is by far even my favorite thread and its quite disheartening to see it going the wrong way. If there isn't anything worthwhile to discuss, let the mods close this thread, at least avoid the heartburns and hard feelings.
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Old 20th February 2009, 10:57   #507
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C'on guys chill !!!!!

Both cars have their positives and negatives, and will suit different requirements. I don't think either city or linea is perfect for everything otherwise only will sell right lol . People have different likes and dislikes, lets give our opinion on that rather than fighting with each other. and to certain FIAT fanboys please guys every FIAT thread gets ruined because of some stupid posts, leave the fanboyism behind .......

Last edited by Rahulkool : 20th February 2009 at 10:59.
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Old 20th February 2009, 11:03   #508
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Even I think that this thread should be closed. People have been waiting for 3 years to buy the Linea and we know their numbers.
People have been buying Citys for all these 3 years and are still buying it in more numbers.
But then the numbers have to be less for a D segment car anyway.
Well, more people are always less intelligent than oneself (thats what we learn in threads that have anything to do with a Fiat)
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Old 20th February 2009, 11:06   #509
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Why? Just because its directed towards the "Sacred Cow" - Fiat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
To me this is unwanted sarcasm.
People on this thread have been taking pot shots at other car manufactures and when for the first somebody did it on Fiat, already a banner of protest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Wondering why all the uproar about this particular sarcastic post when no one seemed to bother earlier about the sarcastic remarks directed at other brands.

Last edited by diabloo : 20th February 2009 at 11:10.
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Old 20th February 2009, 11:41   #510
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@diabloo, is that a question directed at me ? Asking because you have quoted me.

In case you didn't understand, what I meant was, "Why this hullabaloo only about Steeroid's sarcastic post, when others have been posting similar sarcastic comments against other brands (eg.Honda) ?"

P.S. : BTW, ain't it time you updated your signature ? The ANHC has replaced the NHC as the new 'City of Life' & 'Symbol of Luxury'.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 20th February 2009 at 11:43.
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