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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th February 2009, 11:48   #511
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No.
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
@diabloo, is that a question directed at me ? Asking because you have quoted me.
Fellow BHPian has the answer (see below)
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P.S. : BTW, ain't it time you updated your signature ? The ANHC has replaced the NHC as the new 'City of Life' & 'Symbol of Luxury'.
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
I am NOT considering buying ANHC as I did not feel its in the same "class" as NHC!
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Old 20th February 2009, 11:56   #512
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
His logic - he pays about 60% of what he would have paid for the ANHC (his first choice), gets a more powerful and rugged car with interior space to match the ANHC.
Palio 1.6 more powerful and has similar interior space to match ANHC? I know he would like to justify his decision, but this is over the top!
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Old 20th February 2009, 12:13   #513
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I would have preferred ANHC over Linea, if, it would have come with 1.3 multijet and parts to be priced lower and service interval would be 15k or 1 year like linea.

I dont think, my above post towards Fiat or Honda.
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Old 20th February 2009, 14:07   #514
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Why? Just because its directed towards the "Sacred Cow" - Fiat?
You have missed the point completely my dear friend. Unwanted in the context of the discussion going on.

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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
People on this thread have been taking pot shots at other car manufactures and when for the first somebody did it on Fiat, already a banner of protest?
Going by your logic everyone should start taking pot shots but then this thread would become a '****' nothing else.
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Old 20th February 2009, 14:48   #515
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Default Apples and Oranges

I seem to have added to the acrimony and confusion in this thread. I am sorry for that.

Let me begin by clarifying a few things. The chappie who called me is not a petrol-head (or a Diesel-head for that matter). He was giving me his impression which I shared as I thought it showed how the 'aam junta' views things, while we here quibble about a car being a C or C+ or D segment. And, no he was not looking at either a M800 or a scooter, he was looking for (now in hindsight) a medium sized car. I can understand his opinion that the Palio has more power since it is very close to the ANHC in the power to weight and torque to weight ratios (but at lower RPM). Please do note that the ANHC is a mere 40 Kg heavier than the Palio 1.6 though it is over a foot and half longer and about three inches wider, therefore the car will seem lighter - the simple (perhaps simplistic too) conclusion is - heavier is more rugged. My own observation is that is that the Palio's body panels seem to be made of heavier/thicker metal sheets because of the 'thucks' and 'thumps' with which the doors, bonnet and boot close.

Apples and Oranges!

I have read the reports and comparisons given here by people who have driven both the cars in question, it is obvious that each car targets a seperate and distinct audience.

There is the difference in the styling - some people like conservative lines, some prefer radical designs. Some like soft seats, some prefer firm seating. Some like stiff suspensions, some prefer soft suspension. Some like qucik pick-up from start, some prefer a car that merely ticks over at 100 Kmph. So on and so forth. It is ultimately a matter of personal preferences and choice. Personally I would look at the Linea only if it came with something like 1.8 or 2 litres under the hood.

The two cars considered here are as different from each other as chalk and cheese, so we started off trying to compare oranges with apples. Ergo: one cannot be better than the other. I wish that in this thread we could stick to highlighting the differences and leave it at that.

Cheers,
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:00   #516
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Default Remarks too personal!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
People driving that underpowered 1.2 Palio automatically spoke authoritatively on these cars like they had made them in their backyards. Nevermind that the 1.2 wouldnt hold its own against my 55 year old 1.1 in either power deliver or mileage or sheer driving pleasure. It was assumed that owning Fiat gave you ownership of the brand.
I find this very awkward from a senior member at Team BHP to get so personal about things.

And what kind of claims. Just to win an argument.

Most of us here are expressing their own opinions. And not trying to win over the other, not trying to degrade one product over the other. At least not in comparison with products owned by them.

For what?
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:10   #517
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@Raveendra, excellent summary!

That was one of the most sensible posts on this thread so far.
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:11   #518
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
extreme bhai the only problem is people (outside of this forum) dont really fall for Fiat that much!!! Honda doesnt have that sort of problems!

I had a back to back dekho of both ANHC and Linea (and NHC as well) and I felt Linea although looks good in pictures but comes somewhat short in person! It rather belongs to SX4/Aveo/Fiesta class rather than ANHC! Sure that 'thud' was there but not the wow factor. The interiors dont give the same feel as those of ANHC (and there is no comparison at all with NHC!) But these are my personal feelings. I didnt do any test drive or anything. My fiancee didnt like it one bit and that was the end of Fiat for me!

Prices are determined by market forces rather than anything else. ANHC is still outselling every other (even cheaper) cars by a margin!!!
--- I totally agree with you joslicx. I have seen both the cars in person and for me ANHC looks much better in person than the Linea.

As far as the pricing is concerned...if Fiat was in Honda's position they would have never priced Linea so low. Fiat is struggling in India and without a low priced Linea it didnt stand a chance.

We have bought the ANHC and are very happy with the performance.

Linea has some good things which we use sparingly and are not must (e.g. ACC, Fog Lamps, Alloys)

ANHC has the one good thing that we use always (Engine)
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:12   #519
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buying a FIAT is a GAMBLE more like a Girl friend who is a bombshell. she is fun to see and all and show off true modfel type. looks to kill for. lol. but you never know wheather you will get that drive and long lasting effect hehe.


and buying a HONDA is like a girl friend again but yes she is not a bombshell an all but a compromise solution! looks good to some and look bad to some other...not that much fashion oriented. lol. but yes she has the drive alright and yes long time relationship is guaranteed

suit yourslef . hehe

sorry couldnt hold myself back. hahaha
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:29   #520
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ANHC except for front ugly looks (according to me ) excellant class leading Sedan!

Linea on the other hand look smart but I didn't like visibility from driver's seat and few things inside like seat adjustment lever etc.. look too odd. Diesel has not enough power to take off but its enough for Indian congested traffic. With more power one would do rash driving rather than decent driving.

Linea front looks very nice but I didn't like seats. I liked seats in Indica Vista which was parked next to Linea.

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 20th February 2009, 15:32   #521
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Quote:
and buying a HONDA is like a girl friend again but yes she is not a bombshell an all but a compromise solution! looks good to some and look bad to some other...not that much fashion oriented. lol. but yes she has the drive alright and yes long time relationship is guaranteed
However the lifestyle and heritage costs you a bomb here. Lets not get into these analogies, where divorse (resale) will also be helping the decision making

Mostly people buy their cars, because they simply like it. The logic/justification follows for mere convincing/pretending that the decision is factual, defendable and with intellect
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Old 20th February 2009, 16:13   #522
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Why do I say this? For about 3 years now we've heard the same bunch of people go on and on about the Linea like it was the ultimate car in the world. There were hundreds of threads on Linea this and Grande Punto that. People who owned the Palio seemed to believe that they have this automatic, god-given right to talk about these two cars (Baby Maserati, BAH!) without anyone disputing what they said. Regardless of the fact that the Palio and the Linea have nothing in common. People driving that underpowered 1.2 Palio automatically spoke authoritatively on these cars like they had made them in their backyards. Nevermind that the 1.2 wouldnt hold its own against my 55 year old 1.1 in either power deliver or mileage or sheer driving pleasure. It was assumed that owning Fiat gave you ownership of the brand.

Now the car is out, and frankly WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT! For all that tall talk it fails to deliver power, driveability, usable space or consistent interior quality.

Read up all the threads leading up to the launch of this car and then sit in that car. You will realize where I'm coming from.

In my opinion, these people are Fiat's biggest enemies.
Well, if there have been numerous threads over the years on the Linea, then it perceptibly alludes to the fact that the product has generated as much interest in the forum! Team-bhp is the sum of its members and no individuals prerogative - as simple as that!

Also, I beg to see logic in the thoughts that the interest is generated purely from past/present Fiat owners/fanboys! I wonder if there are as many Fiat owners as a Honda or a Maruti? By that logic, the launch of Honda/Hyundai/Maruti's products should have generated as much, if not more, interest on the forum?

While I dont agree completely on all the Honda bashing, what I see is - No sooner does somebody put a Honda down, there are people making sweeping comments like it is thier automatic, god-given right and justifying like the car was made in thier backyards! Although, I have never owned a Honda or a Fiat, I was grouped with the 'fanboys' in one of the Linea threads I got into - I have largely refrained after that!

As for the 'dissappointment' bit, it certainly could be for you, but for every one of us who thinks so, theres also another who thinks otherwise! I would leave it at that! (And, going by our knowledgeable forum, I guess there are more who think otherwise!)

I really believe the Linea has taken the game forward in a lot of ways, the feature list being the call-out. The fact is indicated by the way Honda has reacted to it as a competitor. On the other hand, I have loved the OHC, hated the NHC and liked the ANHC - excepting its unjustfied and exorbitant pricing strategies!
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Old 20th February 2009, 16:20   #523
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Originally Posted by sanstorm View Post

Mostly people buy their cars, because they simply like it. The logic/justification follows for mere convincing/pretending that the decision is factual, defendable and with intellect
Actually I think most people buy best compromise rather than what they like best!

I like Fabia a lot (among small cars) and want to buy it but I'll rather end up buying i20 or Swift(for one reason or the other). This is just an example by the way. The car by itself might be good but there are other factors as well - long term reliability, servicing ease, spare costs, that particular company's future in India etc.

Its just that on all these kinds of extraneous factors Linea falls short of ANHC. Fiat have a bad reputation (and it was not helped at all by their staff's totally indifferent attitude towards me when I visited their showroom in Noida). Wait till Nano comes!!! Who at the tata dealership will have time for Fiat customer then? Its very disappointing that Fiat doesnt realise what harm Tata relationship is doing to them. To me it points at an acute lack of commitment to the Indian customer!

But in the end I would really be glad if Linea does manage to bring Honda down! Long they have fleeced the Indian customer (but they cant be pointed out for giving a bad product, its just pricing is on the higher side!). The likes of SX4, Verna, Fiesta all failed to dislodge City. Lets see if Linea could do it. Otherwise it'll just be another good car and nothing more - just like SX4, Verna, Fiesta etc.
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Old 20th February 2009, 16:35   #524
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@josclix: i doubt if Linea would ever top ANHC sales. ANHC is a fantastic product no doubt. Its overpriced, IMHO - and its overpriced because people are still buying it. I wont blame Honda for it - as a seller - if i can charge a premium and still command excellent sales, i would be a fool to reduce my margin!

I am hoping for some good competition in this range, and an even playing field - so all manfucaturers are forced to price their cars sensibly.Then all potential customers (including the fanboys) would benefit.
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Old 20th February 2009, 16:38   #525
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Its just that on all these kinds of extraneous factors Linea falls short of ANHC.
And there are certain factors by which Linea scores ahead of ANHC!
Both the cars have pros & cons, people will buy the one which suits their requirements the most.
Quote:
and it was not helped at all by their staff's totally indifferent attitude towards me when I visited their showroom in Noida).
Some BHPians have reported the same snobbish attitude by the Honda dealers! What does it prove?
So finally it depends on the dealership how serious they are to win the customers.
Quote:
Wait till Nano comes!!! Who at the tata dealership will have time for Fiat customer then?
Don't worry about that!
Fiat-Tata dealers have a separate Sales team to deal with Fiat and Tata customers.
The same holds good at their Service centres too.
Quote:
Its very disappointing that Fiat doesnt realise what harm Tata relationship is doing to them. To me it points at an acute lack of commitment to the Indian customer!
It is very easy to sit back & pass a comment like that!
The people sitting at the Board of Fiat and Tata are highly knowledgeble and have years of experience in Automobile industry, so if they have taken a crucial decision like this, there would certainly be a big rationale behind that.

Last edited by finneyp : 20th February 2009 at 16:42.
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