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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25th February 2009, 12:31   #571
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but what car is the benchmark for steering feel?
BTW, great summary of both cars!
Fiesta S, I suppose?
I have not driven Fiesta extensively but Fusion steering itself is such a delight compared to ANHC.
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:30   #572
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I don't think the point raised by 'ashthedivx' ie. resale value, is irrelevant in this thread. After all this is a thread for comparing all attributes related to 2 cars and resale value is surely a relevant attribute just like power or looks or A.S.S.

Not everyone buys cars to keep them for a lifetime in which case resale might be irrelevant. A car is a total package with different attributes having different levels of importance for different people.

And BTW, resale was mentioned in the OP also along with A.S.S..

I hope I am wrong, but I get a feeling that when the +ves of the car/brand we like is mentioned, we all join in the chorus/applause. But when someone mentions a point where our car/brand is lacking, out comes the opposition as in, "Hey, it is not relevant here" or "It will start a slanging match" etc.

While pointing out the +ves, let us also make sure the -ves are made clear so that anyone who is looking to choose between these 2 cars can make an informed decision.
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:40   #573
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Brilliant review 1100D. Summed up the cars perfectly and written like a pro. I felt like being in a Top Gear comparo segment.
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Old 25th February 2009, 14:45   #574
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The best comparison report by far on these two cars. Almost everything that matters on a test drive is covered including how the two fare on the highways.
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Old 25th February 2009, 15:03   #575
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Default UTV show

My friend told me that UTVi had a program yesterday - Linea(P) Vs Honda city
It seems that they concluded that the City was a better buy inspite of being 1.5L more expensive.
Anybody seen the show?

Also Autocar and Overdrive seem to have Test Drives/comparisons of Linea in their march issue.
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Old 25th February 2009, 16:20   #576
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Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
My friend told me that UTVi had a program yesterday - Linea(P) Vs Honda city
It seems that they concluded that the City was a better buy inspite of being 1.5L more expensive.
.
Interesting that the same panel (from ACI) gave the COTY 09 to Linea!
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Old 25th February 2009, 16:32   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I don't think the point raised by 'ashthedivx' ie. resale value, is irrelevant in this thread. After all this is a thread for comparing all attributes related to 2 cars and resale value is surely a relevant attribute just like power or looks or A.S.S.

Not everyone buys cars to keep them for a lifetime in which case resale might be irrelevant. A car is a total package with different attributes having different levels of importance for different people.

And BTW, resale was mentioned in the OP also along with A.S.S..

I hope I am wrong, but I get a feeling that when the +ves of the car/brand we like is mentioned, we all join in the chorus/applause. But when someone mentions a point where our car/brand is lacking, out comes the opposition as in, "Hey, it is not relevant here" or "It will start a slanging match" etc.

While pointing out the +ves, let us also make sure the -ves are made clear so that anyone who is looking to choose between these 2 cars can make an informed decision.
No problem with the negatives being mentioned. Each one of the reviewers have mentioned that the Linea is underpowered and that the ANHC's interiors and build quality are not as good. No one has objected, nor can an objection be made to that. The reviewers were stating their observations and viewpoint, on the product, on the basis of tangibles.

I do not know how many ANHCs or Lineas have been sold and bought in the second hand market, though I suspect that the figure for each car is nil as of date, so there is no tangible basis for commenting on the probable, future price that a car might, or might not fetch. Incidentally, I wonder if ashthedivx has taken into account the price of an OHC 1.3 in the second hand car market when he says - "Aren't we missing resale value point which is very important in Indian Context where Mighty Honda rules over Fiat anyday."

Before I am branded as a Fiat Fanboy, let me clarify. Yes I think Fiat makes some great cars, but I have not bought one in about 10 years because I found better cars to buy. I am now looking to buy a Palio 1.6 for its sheer fun factor. I would never buy the Linea in it's present form as I think that it is grossly underpowered.

How I wish the VTEC motors would be made available in the Linea. Yes, I am a fan of the Honda VTEC engines. I do not see any conflict there, people can like, adore, respect, love and admire different cars (or marques) for different things.

Cheers,
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Old 25th February 2009, 18:07   #578
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I can say for sure that Fiat messed it up this time around too. Linea is a good car, but the engines are going to kill it. I think the tried to learn "too much" from their past mistakes. They saw that the Palio did not sell well mainly due to FE, so tried to make the Linea as much fuel efficient as possible and as a result plonked two puny engines. What they failed to see here is that Fiats are no longer going to be bought by the FE conscious crowd anymore because they are brand conscious as well. By not giving decent motors, they killed the enthusiasm of the enthusiasts as well.

I think Fiat has to look at the Fiesta for advice. They had a version for everybody. The 1.4 Petrol for the price conscious crowd, the 1.4 Diesel for the mileage conscious ones and the 1.6 Petrol for the enthusiasts. Actually the 1.4 Petrol was there only to attract customers to the showrooms. Not many actually bought it.

I think Fiat should bring the 1.4L TJet or at least plonk the 1.6L 100PS engine if it has to sell some.
 
Old 25th February 2009, 20:19   #579
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I feel people are going really overboard with this "Linea is underpowered" talk.
If an underpowered engine is really so bad for FIAT, I wonder why NHC with its puny 77bhp engine topped sales charts.

Linea will sell fine because of heavy VFM factor and the all-new gadgets. It is 1.5L cheaper than City and the budget-conscious crowd will surely go for it. I am one who feel japanese engines are best ... but charging so much premium is daylight robbery. The only unknown is the service & spares, which FIAT seems to be doing a good job so far.

1.4Tjet & 1.6MJD will be amazing, but again people will complain about price. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 25th February 2009, 21:09   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
I feel people are going really overboard with this "Linea is underpowered" talk.
If an underpowered engine is really so bad for FIAT, I wonder why NHC with its puny 77bhp engine topped sales charts.
Good point, but I don't think NHC was as heavy as Linea. So 77bhp would have been good enough for that car isnt it?
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Old 25th February 2009, 21:58   #581
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Originally Posted by musicvj View Post
Good point, but I don't think NHC was as heavy as Linea. So 77bhp would have been good enough for that car isnt it?
You are right the NHC was 1055Kg and it was 78PS, while the Linea is 1240 and has a power of 90PS. But then again all that matter is the soul of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
What they failed to see here is that Fiats are no longer going to be bought by the FE conscious crowd anymore because they are brand conscious as well. By not giving decent motors, they killed the enthusiasm of the enthusiasts as well.
Why do you think so? I do not think good FE will be a deterant for potential buyers. IMHO, this car is targetted at the Family segment(see the ad's). Frankly Fiat just forgot about the enthusiasts altogeather. As other member's have mentioned earlier T-Bhp has about 1% of the total car owners in India. So it goes out to say we only form a small percentage and even smaller percentage would be your typical enthusiasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
I think Fiat has to look at the Fiesta for advice. They had a version for everybody. The 1.4 Petrol for the price conscious crowd, the 1.4 Diesel for the mileage conscious ones and the 1.6 Petrol for the enthusiasts. Actually the 1.4 Petrol was there only to attract customers to the showrooms. Not many actually bought it.
There were actually a few cutomers who preffered the 1.4, but that was smooth move by Ford. After a while seeing the response Ford probably pulled the plug on the 1.4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
I think Fiat should bring the 1.4L TJet or at least plonk the 1.6L 100PS engine if it has to sell some.
Now I really wish FIAT does listen to you.
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Old 25th February 2009, 22:59   #582
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Originally Posted by downsouth View Post
Frankly Fiat just forgot about the enthusiasts altogeather. As other member's have mentioned earlier T-Bhp has about 1% of the total car owners in India. So it goes out to say we only form a small percentage and even smaller percentage would be your typical enthusiasts.
How can you be sure that all the enthusiasts in India are the member of this forum?
and thus
What is the percentage of T- bhp enthusiats compared to total enthusiasts in India?
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Old 25th February 2009, 23:16   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
How can you be sure that all the enthusiasts in India are the member of this forum?
Please re-read my post, I did not write enthusiasts in India are the member of this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
and thus
What is the percentage of T- bhp enthusiats compared to total enthusiasts in India?
Dont know actually, What do you think?
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Old 26th February 2009, 00:31   #584
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Default Mods, please pin them to the start of Thread!

Mods!!

Can we make these two posts by 1100D;

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1182241-post543.html
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1187321-post558.html

Pinned to the start of the thread? Many prospective buyers/enthusiasts would surely appreciate this!

What say?
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Old 26th February 2009, 10:47   #585
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All this talk about build quality and doors closing with 'thud' is not so important as reliability. Even OHC appeared tinny, but there were hardly any rattles and everything worked for years. The NHC 77bhp yes, but there was quite a bit of torque so driveability was not compromised. Add the FE, big boot, easy to get in/out, great driver position, relatively cheap to maintain and Honda had a winner. After success of Accord and Civic, they are on a roll and are getting away with premium pricing on ANHC again because of same above reasons, plus 115 BHP and even more FE.

I have nothing against Fiat/Skoda, but ultimately unless they improve their A.S.S. and reliability they will cater only to high mileage diesel crowd, no matter whether all auto magazines give them 5 stars. IMO ACI is very biased in their reports - very slanted towards european marques. But just take a look around - one finds 80-90% of cars from japan/korea/india, simply because TCO is very high or painful for the others.

Will this not affect anybody's decision wrt to City/Linea?
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