|View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?|
|Honda City 1.5 iVtec||113||55.39%|
|Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire||91||44.61%|
|Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll|
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|8th October 2009, 20:30||#826|
It was & will never be my intention to blindly favour one car & bash another. In case I've replied to /quoting any post of yours, its merely my disagreement to the viewpoint & nothing personal to anyone. Similarly, I do not take others disagreement with me personally. Its merely a debate after all. It was never my intention to mean that customers who have bought ANHC are wrong & those who've bought Linea are right or vice versa. It was never my intention to mean that ANHC or Linea is a bad car or Honda or Fiat is a bad company & the buyers who are buying it are right or wrong. Car buying/ preferences are personal opinions depending on requirements & I think we're mature enough to respect it.
I agree with many posts here that VFM is individual opinions & have always believed in it. e.g. for Srini ANHC is VFM, for someone else Linea could be VFM & for others may be SX4/Fiesta could be VFM. Whats wrong with that? Thats why have never replied/debated or posted anything against any individual saying for him xyz car is VFM
I only mentioned my disagreement & views on certain logic that certain car is VFM to the market as a whole because it sells more. Its only a difference in view nothing else - some would agree with it, some would not. No issues, nothing personal.
I do not own Linea neither do I own ANHC. I was looking for premium hatch but I now can see myself drifting towards C Segment Linea/ ANHC/ Fiesta. In my extended family, we've cars ranging from humble Indica, Swift, 2 SX4's, Linea, ANHC, Altis. Yes ANHC also - my direct cousin who is close to me has it.
I'm no expert & am an average customer & in my buying decision process, as a customer I go alongwith age-old saying that customer is a king. Any smell of even the unsaid slightest monopolistic kinda attitude on seller's part puts me off. Thats my personal view, thats how I'm.
ANHC is a very good car. I would take it any day over other cars at a premium upto 75K-80K as long as it comes with all those regular given equipments which are a must in todays competitive times for a premium Rs. 9-10 Lacs rupee car.
I read that the forum loves debates. I also read that the forum takes great pride in being impartial & what better way than debates to demonstrate that.
Again, in case of any such debates in future on this thread or any other thread, if we come at cross roads having debates because of difference of opinions, I assure you guys that from my side there won't be anything personal - neither to any individual nor to any car nor to any brand nor to any company.
Lets get on with life or shall we say debates ? he he
|8th October 2009, 20:35||#827|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Thanked: 103,359 Times
|8th October 2009, 21:10||#828|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: Sep 2008
Thanked: 21 Times
I have never been a part of debate whether which one is better Linea and ANHC, My stand is one is Apple, another one Orange, it depends on what one wants to eat and what is his preference.
If in one month if Apple sells more than Orange, people should not jump and say Apple is better, VFM etc etc Both have its advantages and disadvantages and come in their own packaging, people may still end up buying Oranges @ 70 RS KG while Apples are available at RS 50 per KG. it is their choice.
If in absolute terms in a country, Oranges are consumed much much more than Apples (month on month, everymonth) then one can surely conclude Orange is more popular and preferred by consumers.
In such a situation Apple growers have to think, how to improve the demand, they can not say excuses like consumers does not know where apple market is or people do not know the saying an apple a day keeps doctor away or people do not know english, hence can not read/understand this pro-verb etc. They have make efforts to create awareness (=advertisments, promotions etc consistently), make the best quality apple available in as many places and hope that consumers buy it.
Coming back to Linea & ANHC, both are great cars, Honda and FIAT are both great brands, there are objective as well as subjective comparisons available in this very forum. Ownership threads of both Linea and ANHC are available, FIAT image in India is certainly on the path of improvement, Honda in India is struggling to improve as well.
As of now ANHC sells more than Linea = more custoemrs prefer ANHC over Linea (or for that matter Verna, Fiesta, etc etc), Only other Sedan which is apealing to more number of people is SWIFT D'zire.
What about future ?, my guess is as good as anyone elses ?
Last edited by StarVegabond : 8th October 2009 at 21:22.
|8th October 2009, 21:52||#829|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: Mar 2006
Thanked: 1,290 Times
If the answer is Yes, the Linea could keep up with the TDCi in the stop go bursts while overtaking on the highways!
If the answer is NO!? Am outta here . Keep the debates coming...
|8th October 2009, 22:06||#830|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Thanked: 49 Times
Recently I converted a friend who is senior to me from Fiesta to ANHC.
Mainly because his daily running is less than 40 km and can afford even Civic.He decided on V -MT !.I told him its not VFM and suggested S-MT.
But he wants only the top variant!
I think the psychology of a person (rich) walking into a Honda or Toyota showroom is different.Both Honda and Toyota have utilised it.What do you call it friends? Business strategy?If the Linea was in great demand,will Fiat sell it in low margins?
If we buy a car just for VFM ,high discounts and freebies its most likely that the model will be a faliure soon.If the company is not making enough money on its products how can they survive?,unless its a high volume seller like Maruthi and TATA.
|8th October 2009, 22:09||#831|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Thanked: 0 Times
Awesome two liner which said it all. You have a Fiesta 1.6S right? Have read your car's review too but was not registered then.
Am also deciding between a anhc or Linea and believe me this thread confused me even more than helping me.
I had TD's of both cars, courtesy Linea-friend and anhc- relative. At present am little bit tilted in favour of Linea, the feel i got after sitting in the car was much better+ride comfort+ heavy solid build and features ofcourse. The thing is whether i take the plunge with fiat and save 1.5 L or be safe with Honda with that money and compromise on features and handling or even so, get a MJD Linea for rising fuel costs and enjoy less running costs.
Some comments made me laugh loud:
1. City has a 118PS engine but wheres the handling to enjoy it,
2. Linea has awesome ride n handling but wheres the power from the engine to enjoy it.
I VOTED FOR LINEA at present, the VFM factor for me clicks in for Linea, i felt the 1.4 engine adequate for me and everything else is top notch. If it hadnt been a fiat, i would have had the keys by now so am still giving anhc a second chance.
Honda may give better resale in future compared to Linea (speculation that Linea resale will be low after 3-4 yeas) but i keep cars for 5-6 years and it hardly matters after that time. For the sole factor that i get a 118PS engine, i cant digest paying myself 1.5-2L extra. Can get a R15 for that and reignite the biker in me
|8th October 2009, 22:23||#832|
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Thanked: 125 Times
Putting on my battlegear!
Ok, let me wade into this little battle.
A disclaimer: I've driven both cars a few times, but I do not own either.
The things in a car that are important to me are, in no order of preference. I want all these features if I am plonking down ~10 lakhs on a car!
- Performance - The very top speed limit of the car is less important to me, I put more value on how that speed is attained! Whether I'm driving at 140 on an expressway or manage to reach 80 in a gap in city traffic does not matter as long as I can reach that speed easily read:FAST!
Though I do not doubt that the Linea can do speeds of 140 or 160, the way the current engines power it, will make it an underwhelming experience compared to the high revving ANHC.
A daily smile on my face while driving is worth paying extra $$$ for - anyday.
- Mileage - For me, an everyday car (heavy or lightweight - doesn't matter) should give me a class-competitive FE. Here the more, the merrier. As per reports on this thread, the ANHC leads again, though marginally.
- Safety - It should have ABS, atleast dual AirBags and great brakes. I want to be able to stop the car quickly too if required. I'd put both cars at par here.
- Interiors - They should look worth the money and give me a few crucial (to me) features i.e. a decent mp3 player compatible sound system with controls on the steering wheel, good options for seat adjustment, cubby holes to put all my junk, decent air conditioning system, interiors should look good and feel good. The rest of the interior goodies other than the standard stuff and these specific items don't matter as much to me and i'm very flexible about them. Despite being highly subjective, i'd put the ANHC ahead of the Linea. I think the interiors are good, although I might end up changing the upholstery on either car.
- Ride Quality - Having driven both cars over good and bad stretches of road, I'd say the Linea is better. I felt the ANHC to be a bit soft sprung, though it was not bad.
- After Sales - Well, I need to know that the car can be serviced at any place near my home or workplace and that the spares (if required) will not take ages to source. Both these cars being C/C+ segmenters I assume the prices will be on the higher side and similar. Given that Fiat is still recovering after taking a beating in India, I'd put more trust in Honda.
- Reliability - This depends on where and how the car is driven. I do not think there is any car that cannot be broken down by bad driving . My take on this is that I should have enough faith that the car will not get me stranded and stuck. I've never had that experience with my current Wagon-R in 3 yrs of ownership, but my dad's indigo has broken down multiple times in 1.5 yrs of ownership a couple of times right after it was serviced . since Fiat will also use the same service center, this is a plus for Honda simply because i've already had a bad experience.
- Exterior - well, as far as I care, the car from the outside should not look ugly. Being super beautiful is a plus, but hey, most of the time I will be inside the car, so the exteriors take a bit of a backseat. Here, I feel the Linea scores over the ANHC BIG TIME.
I'm not even considering resale value of the car, yet. Enough has been mentioned about Hondas garnering better value when selling it.
Well, that about sums it up. So any guesses which car i'd plump for if I had that kind of money??
EDIT: 56 pages and only 48 voters??
Last edited by gomzi : 8th October 2009 at 22:30.
|8th October 2009, 22:49||#833|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: Jun 2006
Thanked: 445 Times
|8th October 2009, 23:15||#834|
Join Date: May 2004
Thanked: 8,671 Times
My view points:
Honda is known for its engine's and trust me nothing comes close to it in the line up available for Indian customers, take any manufacturer's at this point of time. Tranny is also equally good, with the drive i had in the ANHC, i could figure out that they have bridged the gap with low rev drivability. How much power curve is contributing or how much gear ratio's are adding up, i have no clue. But definitely thumbs up for Honda.
Driver perception which includes handling and stopping - good. Why good, because apart from the engine and stopping power, nothing much rings the bells for me. Maybe am lil biased with european feel.
Interiors, very good. they have done a great job, overall the evolution from OHC to ANHC is fantastic, this is something which Honda has really put in effort for the Indian market.
Equipment level: bad, when they charge that extra bit i do expect bit more of equipment. When i paid that extra cash for the Vdi over Ldi i remember making an excel sheet trying to figure out if it was worth it.
Service is still decent, though i still am not convinced with the bills. Average bills are more controlled by the dealer and difference is not that much. But compared to a Tata back up for fiat, this one is worth the money paid.
FE: I cant comment much coz the info i have is that its average, just like any other C segment car. I somehow dont buy this 10-15% advantage, in a city like Bangalore with crazy unpredictable traffic this will rarely matter.
Image: H badge all the way, well we can debate for ages why this is. Yes reliability is one of the big factors, where Honda had a long lead and has maintained it through the years. On the other hand brands like Chevy, Ford and for that matter Fiat, have a very bad start and it will take quite a while to change the perception that they have built over the years.
Overall: A very good buy, if you have flexibility with budget at purchase and respect the H badge on the grill.
Engine is the biggest let down! fiat made a big mistake when they read the "average kya hein line" in the market survey they did before the launch. 1.6 liter petrol and a 1.6 or 1.9 lit diesel would have really made sense for urban indians. On the other hand, how many of the Indian buyers really worry about that 20% less power? As long as it gives decent average and pulls decently they will buy. But for an enthusiast, Honda all the way.
Driver involvement is great with linea, its underpowered but man this car has some character. I really cant explain it much but i like this kind of handling. Ok all this at speeds within 100 kph on both cars.
Interior: oops when you want to deliver at cost to market, you have to take a hit. One place or the other. Fiat took the conservative route and loaded it with Gizmo's. Works for some, others will look somewhere else. But is it a deal breaker? hmm for me no. Ok i havent seen any of the punto's or linea's i know dropping parts, BUT if that is happening, i have an issue.
Equipment level: WOW! For this price, i would be really happy especially for a gizmo freak like me.
Service: oh oh nowhere close to Honda, but its improved alot. But i like the longer intervals, mentally reassuring! though i might still take it for service every 5-7k intervals
FE: as i said and to add to that, both linea's i know are diesels, petrol FE figures i know are from TBHP.
Image: this is really a tricky one, as a car this one rocks. It will make you drooool. But overall image along with Fiat badge is a notch below in our funny Indian perception, compared to H. Hard fact!
Overall: A very good VFM package if am paying up. Apart from the puny engines nothing stopping me from putting my money down if i am in the market for a new car.
One thing i would request is for Honda owners to share their real life experience in here, on a regular basis. Jot down the minute details so that it will be useful for other members. I still feel Linea ownership is covered more than Honda, sometimes even making it too overwhelming.
|8th October 2009, 23:21||#835|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Thanked: 23 Times
10lakhs in hand for a car. Without doubt I would put it on ANHC.
If Linea 1.4 Tjet vs ANHC, then I would be inclined towards Linea. But, in the current scenario, if not ANHC, it will be Fiesta 1.6S for me which comes for 8lakhs odd. I would probably add a touchscreen ICE and Sat Nav systems just like Cedia and make it one hell of a drivers car or maybe the Cedia itself if it comes at 10Lakhs.
|8th October 2009, 23:27||#836|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Thanked: 0 Times
Thats the most "unbiased" review about both the cars i have seen till now.
You have exactly written as it is, with no twisting of any point to prove your point or justify any brand bias.
Agree with most of the points. Also i think its a myth the anhc delivery better FE over Linea petrol, both cars give FE around 11-12 in city traffic which is almost the same which i gathered from reviews.
There are hordes of Linea reviews but a dearth of anhc reviews here. Linea activities have also reduced as seems the newer batches are niggle free.
In my friend's Linea, only chrome strip came off at servicing, nothing else, he gets 11-12 in City and is happy with the car.
|9th October 2009, 00:06||#837|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Net City
Thanked: 0 Times
I voted for ANHC for these reasons:
|9th October 2009, 00:25||#838|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Thanked: 49 Times
I dont mind 5000 km service intervals since it can be serviced on Sundays.At 5000 kms they check the sensors,clean the brakes and may be doing some primary prevention to minimise faults.Will try to find out the details.
I think FE can vary depending on the city in which we use a particular car.Our NHC was consistently delivering about 13km/L (40:60 - City:Highway).But when my brother took it to coimbatore (100% city driving) he says it drinks petrol and is draining his pocket money!But when I am using it in Trivandrum I find the FE reasonable.FE is very consistent if we use good quality petrol.
(Just a joke friends,no hard feelings).Unlike many forums in the net I am happy that members of Team Bhp have a balanced view.I have seen many forums with dedicated Honda bashing threads.But I am of the opinion that the response to the ANHC initial reviews were underwhelming compared to the Linea ( and even fiesta) initial report threads.So the motivation to write is a bit low.
My wife is saying that she would be happy if aleast one person benefits from my ownership thread.Because she thinks otherwise I am wasting a lot of my spare time (which was earlier spend on computer games!)
Honestly I am disappointed about the response to my thread(Wife is saying that, may be others dont have much time to waste on this)
May be everyone is keeping a closer look at the Linea .Since it is more VFM and has a fuel efficient diesel engine.
Last edited by Mevtec : 9th October 2009 at 00:28.
|9th October 2009, 00:57||#839|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Thanked: 56 Times
I have not driven either of the 2.
I am following this and other Linea threads to find out more about Linea and frankly, here, I came to know about lot of features in Linea that made me think about it while I was already considering Altis as my upgrade after i complete 1L kms in my Alto. So its actually not the ANHC vs Linea for me but it is Altis vs Linea, features missing in ANHC do matter to me.
So there goes another vote for Linea..
Anyways my 2 cents on discussion on ANHC verses Linea:
Conclusion drawn based on sales would at best be a conclusion based on statistics and nothing more. Yes, it would be based on decisions made by informed buyers in the past, but so will it be based on uninformed buyers with the ratio of informed vs/ uninformed varying between the 2 cars.
Further the term "informed" itself means different for different people
I consider the following uninformed
1. I myself had bought an Alto when I did not knew how to drive! (Well it was about 9 yrs before and back then there were some other factors). "Ride" and "handling" were unknown to me(not that I know or have experienced it in different cars even now), but being almost fresh mechanical engineer I think I knew a bit more that general public then! Other unknowns were what the cost of ownership would be (Alto was just launched then) and also reliability. I did not knew that Indica (some 20-30K costlier than Alto) was more spacious than Alto.
2. I know a NHC owner who did not know the difference between the non-VTEC and VTEC engines and was later surprised to find the difference!
3. I have a very close friend who recently bought a Getz 1.1 when he already had a car in his house and used it occaisionally! He bought it because he received a unexpected payment at that point of time , Getz 1.1 was being offered at a great discount, and he already had a maruti so did not even look at those options!
Now 1st and the 3rd are ridiculous examples by our t-bhp standards but believe me I have more such or a bit less ridiculous examples. I can count informed buyers using my eyes (don't even need fingers!)
|9th October 2009, 01:16||#840|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Thanked: 21 Times
I agree with above as we see comapratively less pages per review of AHNC than Linea.
May be AHNC owners do not have much to write in rather than normal service details and their driving experience.
We saw more Linea pages/thread (IMHO) becasue the first batch of Linea owners (on Team - BHP) were really aggresive in taking up the Fit and Finish issues in the forum and with FIAT. I am sure this has helped next batch of Linea's to be niggle/trouble free to some extent.
I feel the newer threads of Linea has less report of rattles + niggling issues.
As it said by TQM guru's "Quality" is not the end, it's a life long journey. I hope FIAT will act on the feedbacks and imporve the Engine, quality of fit/finish on a continuous basis..
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