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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th October 2009, 02:23   #841
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Originally Posted by rajivn View Post
10lakhs in hand for a car. Without doubt I would put it on ANHC.

If Linea 1.4 Tjet vs ANHC, then I would be inclined towards Linea. But, in the current scenario, if not ANHC, it will be Fiesta 1.6S for me which comes for 8lakhs odd. I would probably add a touchscreen ICE and Sat Nav systems just like Cedia and make it one hell of a drivers car or maybe the Cedia itself if it comes at 10Lakhs.
So you are looking at performance more than anything else, ANHC will be a perfect fit, great choice.

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Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
[*]So many minor issues reported by Linea owners in this forum. I don't want to visit a service center every other week.
Only this i would disagree, niggles doesn't mean you have to find an accommodation near to the A.S.S. This is where the perceptions are built and sometimes blown out of proportion.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
I dont mind 5000 km service intervals since it can be serviced on Sundays.At 5000 kms they check the sensors,clean the brakes and may be doing some primary prevention to minimise faults.Will try to find out the details.
Even i dont mind 5000 service, but dont be surprised if you see that they just change the oil, clean the filter, wash the car and give you a 800 Rs labor bill.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
I think FE can vary depending on the city in which we use a particular car.Our NHC was consistently delivering about 13km/L (40:60 - City:Highway).But when my brother took it to coimbatore (100% city driving) he says it drinks petrol and is draining his pocket money!But when I am using it in Trivandrum I find the FE reasonable.FE is very consistent if we use good quality petrol.
Dear sir i am from TVM and i can confirm with you that traffic there will get you better mileage than BLR.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
The reason may be that ANHC owners are too busy riding them .
Or as i say its too boring that dont have anything much to report just kidding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
But I am of the opinion that the response to the ANHC initial reviews were underwhelming compared to the Linea ( and even fiesta) initial report threads.So the motivation to write is a bit low.
I agree but we still request more members like you to contribute regularly.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
My wife is saying that she would be happy if aleast one person benefits from my ownership thread.Because she thinks otherwise I am wasting a lot of my spare time (which was earlier spend on computer games!)
Thats why they say "listen to your women!" She is 100% true, if the reviews help atleast 1 person in real life, its worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
Honestly I am disappointed about the response to my thread(Wife is saying that, may be others dont have much time to waste on this)

May be everyone is keeping a closer look at the Linea .Since it is more VFM and has a fuel efficient diesel engine.
I dont update or comment because i expect anything, i do it coz i love automobiles and gizmo's. Am just sharing my experiences, somebody like it great, if it helped another member, that makes my day.

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Originally Posted by Ram_NP View Post
I agree with above as we see comapratively less pages per review of AHNC than Linea.
May be AHNC owners do not have much to write in rather than normal service details and their driving experience.
Not really i know a few who can write more, doesnt do it since they dont either have the time or patience to do it. I have spoken to them multiple times with 0 resukts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram_NP View Post
We saw more Linea pages/thread (IMHO) becasue the first batch of Linea owners (on Team - BHP) were really aggresive in taking up the Fit and Finish issues in the forum and with FIAT. I am sure this has helped next batch of Linea's to be niggle/trouble free to some extent.
If this has worked we are very happy for TBHP and would like to take it as a compliment. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram_NP View Post
I feel the newer threads of Linea has less report of rattles + niggling issues.

As it said by TQM guru's "Quality" is not the end, it's a life long journey. I hope FIAT will act on the feedbacks and imporve the Engine, quality of fit/finish on a continuous basis..
Yes i too wish the same and hope they introduce a 1.9 MJD engine!!!
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Old 9th October 2009, 02:50   #842
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Chill, Shall we?

Though I used to love such debates, have stopped actively participating in it as got misunderstood often having owned my 1st Fiat in the form of Linea & having got (in)famous lable of a Fiat-owner.

According to me, there is nothing like better or the best car in such comparisons. Except for being C segment sedan, having 4 wheels/doors, 1 boot, 1 steering & typical sedan necessities there is nothing common in both these cars. Actually, they complement each other. One market leader, the other from a lowly-placed company struggling to re-establish, engine, Ride & Handling, Looks, steering feedback, interiors, Price, A.S.S., Dealer network, resale etc etc. In an individual’s view, if some of these item is high/better in one, the other things are high/ better in another car. If someone gets positives of both these cars together & develops a car, that would be quite a car.

Consequenly, I refuse to (& stopped now to) believe ANHC is better as a car/ product because it sells more. And I refuse to (& stopped now to) believe Linea is better because its priced lower & offers more equipments. I refuse to believe both these as generalization & as absolute/ generic verdict. For 1 individual ANHC would be better & for another its Linea.

Similarly, ANHC would be VFM for some whereas some others would consider Linea as VFM. Buyers of both the cars are not wrong or right in third party's eyes. They are right in their own eyes & there is nothing wrong with that.

I respect StarVegaBond for buying ANHC & for his neutral views in such debates. Same goes for SkyWalker also who used to remain neutral in such comparisons. Same goes for few other ANHC-owners also. I respect few Linea-owners also for always struggling to justify their decisions (which they don’t need to) & for the risk taken. I respect Raavvendrra & amit also for putting faith in Fiat (Palio) when people dare not do it. I respect GTO also for clinging on to OHC VTEC when other modern cars are coming daily with prices getting reduced for equipments offered earlier & now.
There’ll still be people who buy ANHC not for Engine/ Performance/ FE/Interiors etc etc but for status (or the lack of it in other cars)/ badge/ image/ safe bet etc etc. There will still be people who buy Linea not because of Ride & Handling/ Steering/ Equipment/ Price but for Looks/ exteriors/ other non-critical items. To that extent I tend to agree with someone who asks how many would be such customers.

But then what do we want to prove by how many such customers (if its possible) & by such comparison threads? One up-manship ? (prove ourselves right & someone else wrong? ). What else? What benefit do we derive? Beyond a point such debates/ comparisons become repetitive & could benefit / harm Honda or Fiat only & not to us individuals. I’ve decided not to actively participate in such debates beyond a point for this & to avoid being misunderstood. Signing off.

PS: Apologies to use a few usernames (as they came to mind while writing this) without their permission

PS2: On debates on Indian customers being ignorant or discerning – how does buying decision happen generally/ mostly? I would not say a typical Indian customer is ignorant. I would also not say a typical Indian customer goes thro’ technical details on threadbare e.g. Torque/ Power to Weight ratio/ 0-100 etc etc. Most / majority of typical buying decision (remove tbhp from mind for time-being to understand this point) happens thro’ word-of-mouth (which is not rumors but its word-on-street), friend/ parents/ elders/ neighbors as influencers & 1st hand experiences, 1 or 2 TD’s for 0.5 kms to 5 kms in crowded city roads, FE, Net surfing etc etc. For him engine specs are CC, FE & at the most BHP, TD is generally used to see any negative aspect for elimination. I was one such typical buyer in 2003 when I bought Ikon. Did not know anything about Power/pick up/ Ride & Handling/ 0-100 (my profile that time – an engineer-MBA working for Fortune 200 companies in cities like Ahmedabad & Mumbai, having travelled across India & well-read, by grace of God). And more or less similar situation even when I bought my next car this year. Surfed net extensively but inconclusive – was indecisive over ANHC, NHC exi (outgoing model that time), SX4, Verna. Never knew there is a car called Linea already launched (except for fleeting memory of some TV ads). Got confused & called my friend at Ahmedabad (he does not own any super car, has a humble Indica, but he keeps himself abrest with market). Its he who said Linea could ALSO be an option. TD’ed it & liked it imdtly. Too risky. So, next 2 months did extensive research on net & TBHP. In fact, this very thread & the debates between threadstarter & if I remember, amit & others contributed to an extent to my decision making.
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Old 9th October 2009, 08:05   #843
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Voted for ANHC for :
1. I have more faith in their after sales support. The Fiat - TATA deal might be making things easier for their customers now, but i dont want to put my hard earned lakhs on that bet.
2. Looks being subjective, i like ANHC's looks more than Linea's
3. Its easier to improve ANHC's handling (fatter rubber) than Linea's power. I know umpteen people have said they dont find Linea underpowered. Some even compared it with Fiesta TDCi saying 120 kmph is enough (frankly, even alto can do those speeds comfortably). But at the end of the day, i WANT those extra horses. Power isnt just top speed, its also how you get there.
4. Blue n Me stuff. Well, my phone doesnt even have bluetooth. So there.
5. Brand does matter to me.
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Old 9th October 2009, 08:23   #844
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
One thing i would request is for Honda owners to share their real life experience in here, on a regular basis. Jot down the minute details so that it will be useful for other members. I still feel Linea ownership is covered more than Honda, sometimes even making it too overwhelming.
There are about three threads on ANHC i guess with regular updates. I have updated my thread at regular intervals - i have done 6K Kms and going for 3rd service tomorrow. So far no complaints. Overall experience has been very pleasant and the services were extremley quick and efficient. I drive to Magnum usually on Saturday morning around 9:30 AM, give the car for service and hit Metro for shopping. I get a call around 12:-12:30 PM saying car is ready. Avg mileage is 11.x in city with 100% AC.

And while i am at it - i have a long pending thread coming up. 7+ year review of my Palio 1.2 ELX. There has been mentions about FIAT's poor service - but my experience has been so far very good - barring one or two minor annoyances. The car was reliable, sturdy, a great handler. Major cons were lack of power (1.2/72 bhp is just adequate for this heavy hatch ), comparatively lower mileage (10.x in city for a hatch). Overall i would give it a and i am keeping the car for another year at least.

Overall, i think FIAT has done a decent job to get Linea to this levels (1000 cars a month). If i am vocal about the quality issues its because i would like FIAT to handle that. Brand perception doesn't change overnight - it takes time. FIAT definitely would want to distinguish itself from Tata, and these niggles don't help much.

We need good competition in C-C+ segment as it benefits the buyer. Having one car is an uncontested leader doesn't help any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevtec View Post
The reason may be that ANHC owners are too busy riding them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Or as i say its too boring that dont have anything much to report just kidding.
well, if you want rattles, breaking plastics and falling logos to make it exciting - no thanks. I would rather be boring (no offense - i couldn't resist this one )

Last edited by SkyWalker : 9th October 2009 at 08:34.
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Old 9th October 2009, 08:58   #845
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Default Great view @ Amit - VahanPujari.

I normally dislike putting up posts congratulating a good post but, in this case I have given in to the temptation as it is truly called for.

That was a great post by VahanPujari, totally balanced, appropriate in tone and content, a voice of sanity that gives the rest of us a nice clear perspective. Hats off to you Vahan for your maturity and depth that are clearly seen in this post. (Also shows how closely you follow TBHP.) Just for the record - I have no issues with my name being referred to.

Kudos also to Alto99 for a post bringing us down to the reality and reminding us about the Indian Consumer.

Jaggu was his objective and neutral best. IMHO Omar and Skywalker are best placed in this debate as they own both brands and they love both!

Cheers,
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Old 9th October 2009, 09:16   #846
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So then, here you have someone who owns a Linea MJD but has voted for the ANHC. I truly believe that when it comes to Petrol cars, ANHC in the current context beats the Linea albeit by a very small margin.

I also know Linea will catch-up very fast. But then, what lies in the future, no one knows. Awaiting Linea 1.4 TJet, it will change the game!!

Also to confirm, the new lot of lineas are also very boring to own, there are just no niggles!!!
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Old 9th October 2009, 09:20   #847
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Forget about the recent Honda City, compare old City in terms of FE and niggles with the deluge of Linea's .... on this forum.

On my advice, my brother bought a Honda City in 2/2008. Has run more than 20K so far and no problems at all. Contrast that with the specific competition on this thread.
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Old 9th October 2009, 09:49   #848
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Me for Linea MJD. Sadly, that is not there in the poll. Still, I would go for the Linea petrol and save about 2.1 L (Linea Emotion Pk Bangalore OTR is 8.61L while that of ANHC V MT is 10.67L, without auto climate). If I need a little more performance, go for a remap, which will be a much cheaper option, or go straight to the Fiesta S. If I were to shell out 10.7L (V MT ANHC), I would rather look at a better D segment car by pushing up my budget by another 10-15%. Never ANHC at that price.

Last edited by opendro : 9th October 2009 at 10:07.
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:09   #849
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Why is it that for One car to be Good the other has to be Bad ??? Cant there be 2 Good cars on the road?? (or for that matter 200 good cars??)

If a Honda owner has invested his lakhs on a City and is enjoying his experience , it is not going to get any better or worse if Linea is any good or bad (and vice versa) .

I appreciate VahanPujari's note and also would not like to get into a debate here . However , just an example (on how to start a new debate ) :
I read things on this thread like FIAT works on thin margin and so service will suffer ! Now , For one , i know that Linea has to visit (officially) the Service Centre only once in 15000 km for a Service (Oil Change etc.) .
Honda asks its cars to be serviced every 4 months at a cost of approx (3000/- + per visit).

SO, the point is, it is the manufacturer's prerogative to decide how much he makes us shell out from our pocket (for owning and A.S.S.). It is our informed decision to choose our car wisely.

To each his own !
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:09   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Linea:

Engine is the biggest let down! fiat made a big mistake when they read the "average kya hein line" in the market survey they did before the launch. 1.6 liter petrol and a 1.6 or 1.9 lit diesel would have really made sense for urban indians.

I would totally disagree against this! I wouldnt call it a let down. For the size of Linea it deserves more power. Fiat should give it multiple engine options . The 1.4 TJET and 1.6 MJD would be a dream. You cant blame Fiat too much on engine options as Palio 1.2 and 1.6 ( obviously) were'nt really FE . I think they did the right thing, but yes i did find 1.3 MJD Linea tad underpowered. But without a doubt its one heck of a sedan!
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:15   #851
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Have voted for the Linea
1) I would rather put in more money and go for Civic and no I dont think City is 85% of Civic.
2) I have been spoilt by Europeans
3) Last and very important at that, emotional connect and character. Unfortunately there is no character or emotional connect each time I see a city but its completely opposite when I see a Linea. For me cars are not just a medium to go from point A to point B and I value a lot of the intangibles. If not the Linea, I would rather buy the Fiesta 1.6S

P.S. For once can we forget the sales figures in this debate and concentrate on the better car and then give reasons for it. The best selling car isnt the best and its very very true in India.
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:35   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram_NP View Post
I agree with above as we see comapratively less pages per review of AHNC than Linea. May be AHNC owners do not have much to write in rather than normal service details and their driving experience.

We saw more Linea pages/thread (IMHO) becasue the first batch of Linea owners (on Team - BHP) were really aggresive in taking up the Fit and Finish issues in the forum and with FIAT. I am sure this has helped next batch of Linea's to be niggle/trouble free to some extent.

I feel the newer threads of Linea has less report of rattles + niggling issues.

+1 on these thoughts. fully agree, AKS, VahanPujari, Geeash, Sathya_SC, nehaamit etc have really pushed FIAT/Tata to improve.


secondly, as an ANHC owner i have nothing new to report in the car except i drove XX KM per day and/or we went on a long drive vacation
That's what i was doing in my ownership thread, but now the MODS (none other than GTO) have requested me not to post my travel experiences in my ownership thread, most probably, it will see lesser and lesser updates (e.g. only when it goes for service)

Last edited by StarVegabond : 9th October 2009 at 10:36.
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:38   #853
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As far as Indian car buyers making an informed decision is concerned ponder on this

1) When the City was launched in India what was it known for? We never said it was the most luxurious and had the best interiors of the lot or that it has the best ride and handling compromise. Infact it was a complete opposite. What worked for Honda City were the engine power (I still love that 1.5L 100 bhp engine), fuel average and reliability and that built the brand which was already strong in India. European cars like Astra were at disadvantage straightaway because they were heavier so not as efficient but had the ride and handling and interiors to die for but what happened to the brand? There are countless other examples. The fact remains that the majority out there give two hoots about ride and handling and the interiors, whats works according to me is, in order, fuel average, looks, brand, reliability. In some segments the brand would take precedence.

Another good example would be Skoda and you will agree that Octavia has been a reasonable success. The Skoda brand was built on the fuel efficiency aspect of the 1.9 TDi so much so that people overlooked the shocking A$$ and maintenance costs.

I have never heard anyone (except tbhp) say that I have bought the Honda City for engine power and performance, they are a bonus. What works for the City brand is fuel efficiency and the Honda brand. And for all the reliability talk, I find the 5000 kms service interval incredibly ridiculous. There are n number of things that the dealer would want to do to your car when it comes for service and believe me most of them would take the bate.

Another point that has been stressed and much talked about in this debate is the reliability part which to en extent is true but not a determining factor at all. Almost all the cars sold in India have reliable engines. Even an Indica Diesel engine survives for around 2 lakh kilometers and it rarely sees the authorized service center, is abused daily and is not serviced every 5k kilometers. And if we see in the past, there isnt much in Honda City apart from the engine which could go wrong. I mean what can possibly go wrong in car with a manual A/C, four power windows and a de-fogger?

Your views?

Last edited by extreme_torque : 9th October 2009 at 10:41.
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:45   #854
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
European cars like Astra were at disadvantage straightaway because they were heavier so not as efficient but had the ride and handling and interiors to die for but what happened to the brand? There are countless other examples. The fact remains that the majority out there give two hoots about ride and handling and the interiors, whats works according to me is, in order, fuel average, looks, reliability.

Almost all the cars sold in India have reliable engines. Even an Indica Diesel engine survives for around 2 lakh kilometers which rarely sees the authorized service center, is abused daily and is not serviced every 5k kilometers. And if we see in the past, there isnt much in Honda City apart from the engine which could go wrong. I mean what can possibly go wrong in car with a manual A/C, four power windows and a de-fogger?

Your views?
Engines may be reliable and long-lasting but engines do not make the car. Since you mentioned Astra, Ask any Corsa or Astra (and pretty soon ask any `thread car' owner) what happens once the IQS is over, and many (a substantial proportion) would report niggling issues that crop up monthly (like the menses in a pre-menopausal female). These issues may not be major but they do require a visit to a service station or mechanic. How much does that cost in time, money, and uncertainty.
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Old 9th October 2009, 10:58   #855
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Engines may be reliable and long-lasting but engines do not make the car. Since you mentioned Astra, Ask any Corsa or Astra (and pretty soon ask any `thread car' owner) what happens once the IQS is over, and many (a substantial proportion) would report niggling issues that crop up monthly (like the menses in a pre-menopausal female). These issues may not be major but they do require a visit to a service station or mechanic. How much does that cost in time, money, and uncertainty.
Yes and I ask you, what possibly can go wrong in car that in the name of equipments only offers you four power windows, a manual A/C and a de-fogger?
I know two people one of whom had an Astra and another Corsa. The Astra ran trouble free except for some electrical glitches until it was sold off while the Corsa in question was badly abused since it was an official car. It was so badly abused that the engine seized up at 40,000 kms. The engine was opened and no oil was found! The car was banged twice on the front and the underbody and the engine mountings were repaired/replaced when it went into an open gutter. The only other issues were the stupid combination switches for the A/C and the headlight which worked loose and then fell off!
But inspite of all this, the car remained taut as ever, drove like a charm and had less rattles than half mileage Honda City.

If it was me, taking my car for service every 5000 kms would have been a niggle of sorts!

Last edited by extreme_torque : 9th October 2009 at 11:00.
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