Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th October 2009, 12:00   #901
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,759
Thanked: 89,467 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Of course YES! The "City" badge has earned its reputation thanks to 3,50,000 Honda Citys (approx total of 10 years) on our roads today. Its only because OHC, NHC and ANHC owners are satisfied that the badge has become what it is today.

If Fiats name is bruised, thats because they have messed up in the last 10 years. Fiat is pushing all the right buttons since their 2008 comeback and I hope they continue to do so in the years to come. Think about it, if the Siena / Petra had been managed the same way that the City was, today's Linea could well have been called a Siena.

There's a reason why brands names like the Accord, Camry, Civic, Corolla, E Class, 5 series, Landcruiser etc. etc. (Octavia too) are carried on from generation to generation. Its because the previous variant has gathered a phenomenal amount of goodwill and (hopefully) the new gen lives up to it.

As consumers, we should hope that every product proves its worth and is able to build such an indomitable reputation & goodwill around the brand.
Further to my previous post, another example : MARUTI. Man, what a heck of a brand. Sell the most cars, control 40% of the market and still have what is amongst the best aftersales in the country. This is a business case that can take a life time to study. Even their cars are not without rough edges, but Maruti gives the market EXACTLY what it wants. People today buy a Maruti with their eyes shut. Why? The market wants peace of the mind, a safe investment (though a car by itself is hardly an investment), fuel efficiency, diesels, reliability, ease of driving / all roundedness and support. Whats more, when its time to sell, they get good resale too! Maruti gives it all to them. Get this : My chacha owns a WagonR Duo and a Hyundai Santro. Now, Hyundai is also a stellar brand, yet when its time for another tall boy, he's chosen the Ritz.

And its not like the market didn't give Fiat a chance. When the hatch segment was smaller, the Palio sold 3000 - 4000 cars a month in its initial months. Something that even the GP hasn't managed today. Sales down from the initial level of 1700 - 1800 to 1500 in September (when the segment grew) and Sid just posted yesterday that discounting has already begun.
GTO is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 12:23   #902
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 362
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

I read today's ad in Ht but there is no discount offered there.
Can please tell me what is the discount is ?
jacksons is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 12:26   #903
Team-BHP Support
 
khan_sultan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,663
Thanked: 3,186 Times
Default

One should hand it to the HONDA for building multiple +ve associations with their brand.

I remember that in rural western UP (some 10-15 years ago), Hero Honda was the motorcycle to have (this is when the shift from scooters to m/cycles was happening). It became the generic name for a m/cycle. It even became THE motorcyle to be given in dowry and became associated with status/prestige etc etc. NO OTHER m/cycle would do. NO ONE in villages cared about TVS/Yamaha or KB/ etc..

HONDA has built similar 'brand' for their cars -- especially with the CITY in urban India.

I have heard of sentences like being spoken with GREAT PRIDE by people who know NOTHING about cars: "Oye, they have bought a Honda City.." "We have bought a Honda City". They don't say that they have bought a 'new car -- but a HONDA CITY'.

So, maybe people do associate HONDA brand with 'peace of mind', 'status/prestige/snob value' 'Japanese quality', 'Economy', etc etc.. and all these brand elements and perceptions do ACTUALLY result in HIGH sales of Honda City.

In the end, people don't just buy the car but all things associated with it. Brand, Perceptions, A.S.S, TCO, etc etc etc. Maybe just like a typical Indian marriage, where it is not just the boy & girl as decision makers but a complex equation of understanding between the 2 families and their relatives.

Now, I have not owned a Honda before and have not driven one for any long time to make a judgment call between the City/Linea (petrol) BUT if I had to put my money it would be the Honda City. And, do note that I drive one of the finest examples that FIAT India has produced -- the 1.6 S10.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 10th October 2009 at 12:28.
khan_sultan is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 13:05   #904
BHPian
 
gomzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 783
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
perceptions do ACTUALLY result in HIGH sales of Honda City
Hey, you're spot on with this. To quote an oft repeated marketing saying "Perception Is Reality"!

Which doesn't mean its only perception that creates a successful product. Case in point the Jazz.
gomzi is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 14:08   #905
Untouchables09
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
This doesn't mean the 1/5 are wrong or the 4/5 are right.
I'm glad you mentioned this as lot of people took the list derogatory. Those 1st few points in the list were never meant to offend anyone. If someone prefers/ buy ANHC for brand/ Badge etc, he is not wrong, he has his own preferences/ views of considering.

As mentioned earlier, I clearly see a disconnect in the logic that XYZ car is better or a VFM (in generalised absolute terms) because it sells more. Because I believe its individual decision / preference. The list is just an attempt to find where that disconnect is.
As GTO mentioned about Siena/Petra, if they would have been managed by Honda (or in the same way as a Honda), try putting this very comparison with Fiat ANHC & Honda Linea, & the resultant sales numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
One interesting observation, does the badge City which has stood the test of time and has been retained, has anything to do? Against Linea, which will be associated with Fiat name first, in Indian context?
Substantial.
Precisely for this reason the below was posted but I guess it has offended many.

Nothing to take away from the brand, the efforts it take to build it & the time it needs. No offense to any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untouchables09 View Post
I think we agreed that sales figures can not be an absolute reason to state that a certain car is a better product than the other with lower sales figures. There are host of other parameters which influences a car's sales figures as someone mentioned earlier. Lets see below

Lemme try to list out those parameters which influences a car''s sales figures & see if we can find the disconnect in that logic.


For 100 guys buying ANHC, put a break up / number of such buyers against each of the parameters below (it could be either single most as in example of those 2 guys above or the primary reason for buying out of 2-3 or more parameters):
  • Status - e.g. How many buys ANHC having status as main criteria & may be with other criterias act as secondary/ supportive or even not-so-important
  • H Badge-Exclusivity - e.g. How many buys ANHC having H-badge-exclusivity as main criteria
  • The syndrome-I always buy the no. 1 product in its segment/industry - how many
  • Honda is Honda - how many
  • A.S.S. - how many
  • Dealer Network - Reach & Quality
  • Spares cost/maintenance
  • Resale
  • Peace of Mind
  • Engine
  • Pricing - Good competitive pricing
  • Ride & Handling
  • FE
  • Safety features
  • Equipments/ Gizmos/Features
  • Interiors - Quality & Space
  • Exterior Looks/ Designs
  • (anyone can add more)
Is it here that the answer to the disconnect in the logic, that ANHC is VFM because it sells more, lies ? Are these the factors which influences consumer buying decision & hence influences the sales figures ? If so, why are we still saying ANHC is the best/better product/car & a VFM BECAUSE it sells more ?

Last edited by Untouchables09 : 10th October 2009 at 14:10.
 
Old 10th October 2009, 14:10   #906
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 362
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

And its not like the market didn't give Fiat a chance. When the hatch segment was
Quote:
smaller, the Palio sold 3000 - 4000 cars a month in its initial months. Something that even the GP hasn't managed today. Sales down from the initial level of 1700 - 1800 to 1500 in September (when the segment grew) and Sid just posted yesterday that discounting has already begun
I asked every dealer in Delhi, noon is giving discount except Corporate discount.
Kindly give the name of dealer where I can get discount as mentioned by you.
__________________
jacksons is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 14:17   #907
BHPian
 
KITE RUNNER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 101
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

This thread is interesting to read, but I cant find any value in the attached poll. It seems there isn't any other C segment Petrol sedan available, or am I being ignorant?

Sales figures are not doing any justice to the poll result - may be we Indians are dumb.
KITE RUNNER is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 14:26   #908
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 739
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Voted for Linea. That's my purchase decision too.

I would have voted/bought ANHC if they had only a "reasonable" premium over the competition (50k-75K max). Difference being close to 2L, I stayed away.
neotraveller is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 14:33   #909
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore.
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

i have voted for the ANHC, which i my present car too...having a poll here in the Forum is worth it for a while.

The real results surfaces only when the both the products are in the market for about 1 to 2 years.

See the way Maruti 800 has survived and now the ALTO !
nandans2005 is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 15:23   #910
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,759
Thanked: 89,467 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksons View Post
I read today's ad in Ht but there is no discount offered there.
Can please tell me what is the discount is ?
Do look up Sidindica's detailed post in the September sales analysis thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untouchables09 View Post
As mentioned earlier, I clearly see a disconnect in the logic that XYZ car is better or a VFM (in generalised absolute terms) because it sells more.
To me the ANHC petrol is a better car than the Linea petrol. Of course, we cannot apply that opinion to the mass market, but what we can apply from its segment leading sales is that the ANHC, despite being positioned at a higher price, meets the needs / requirements of more people in the market than any of its competitors. Now, whether thats due to the brand / car / distribution / power / fuel efficiency / precision build etc. etc., no one knows. But that we do know is, when its time to talk with the cheque book, more people are speaking up for the ANHC than its competitors.

Quote:
As GTO mentioned about Siena/Petra, if they would have been managed by Honda (or in the same way as a Honda), try putting this very comparison with Fiat ANHC & Honda Linea, & the resultant sales numbers
Too many ifs & buts. Retrospect is always the genius.

Quote:
Nothing to take away from the brand, the efforts it take to build it & the time it needs. No offense to any.
Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KITE RUNNER View Post
This thread is interesting to read, but I cant find any value in the attached poll. It seems there isn't any other C segment Petrol sedan available, or am I being ignorant?

Sales figures are not doing any justice to the poll result - may be we Indians are dumb.
Of course not! This poll is hardly representative of the market as it doesn't even consider the competition, nor is the mass market voting on it. Its merely a poll between enthusiasts, not the general public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
The real results surfaces only when the both the products are in the market for about 1 to 2 years.
Good point. We'll surely revisit with a fresh analysis in 2 years.
GTO is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 15:27   #911
Senior - BHPian
 
iTNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Imphal/Noida
Posts: 1,069
Thanked: 500 Times
Default

I own a SX4 (sold today!) and within 2.5 years of ownership, maintenance cost was cheap, not once it broke down and a generous mileage of 11-12 kmpl in city and very few niggles (in my dictionary).

If I had to buy a car in the C-segment, I will put 50% thinking to the car itself and equally, 50% to the After Sales and Service. So, no wonder, my vote goes to ANHC, inspite of the less equipments and premium price!
iTNerd is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 15:40   #912
Senior - BHPian
 
Sn1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 224 Times
Default

I was very critical of the drive quality, balance, handling, grip ..all in all that we enthusiasts love about cars after being spoilt by german engineering, I came back to reality and driving in India (tarmac, road design and system) I think both cars are good enough. 140kmph on Indian roads are scarier than 200 kmph in EU.

But buying one is one thing and maintaining it is another. Honda has done great job of maintaing my wife's last gen Vtec, I say so as she care two hoots about the car, she is only concerned about her drive and reaching the destination. Wink wink she got Vtec. The car has undergone serious drives. Revving hard on all gears (gosh! I taught her the mechanics and she wont let the cams rest) and the engine still is smooth as silk.

On the other hand I drove the FIRE engine hard and I was disappointed with the performance, maybe I was expecting much more. Linea will be a great car once it gets a 1.6 heart transplant. Secondly, I doubt how long the car will last in the hands of TASS. I went with a friend to see his Linea getting serviced at TASS (I used to go there for my Indica). Those guys were having a ball with the car, all enjoying the plush back seats for the midday snooze, few tea cups perched on the roof (maybe testing the slip angle and few tools on the back). Then as usual Tata guys are good at opening everything to see it for themselves and re-engineer the component and assembly line. Poor guy had sent it for fist service not for overhaul.

I agree that with the petrol prices constant the +1.5 L difference Linea owners will drive without worring about the fuel consumption. It will work out still cheaper than City. City owners ease as they will get the badge value on resale.

No matter how expensive the City is vis-a-vis Linea. the peace of mind for professionalism (not that they dont mess up), the ease of driving and maintenance. I choose City.
Sn1p3r is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 15:44   #913
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 352
Thanked: Once
Default

I voted for the Honda City even though I have a diesel Linea. If I was buying a petrol Sedan I would prefer the City to the Linea. However I feel the City is overpriced and I would rather buy an Altis as in my opinion it is a better deal. In fact I had almost bought the Altis earlier this year. Dealers were offering crazy discounts to clear 2008 stocks. Since then the discounts have gone away and Toyota has increased the price twice!!! A net increase of well over Rs. 1 Lac!

The primary reasons for buying the Linea was that it was VFM and diesel. The car has now run over 17,000 kms. Overall I'm happy with the car but not too happy with Fiat A.S.S. and trim quality.
CarsPG is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 16:33   #914
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 362
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

Actually, FIRE engine is not that bad as been everyone is saying, It does carry lot of weight and still doing very well.
This post is from one CARTOOS at AUTOCARINDIA forum
Attached Images
    
jacksons is offline  
Old 10th October 2009, 17:36   #915
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bangalore.
Posts: 640
Thanked: 40 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTNerd View Post
I own a SX4 (sold today!) and within 2.5 years of ownership, maintenance cost was cheap, not once it broke down and a generous mileage of 11-12 kmpl in city and very few niggles (in my dictionary).

If I had to buy a car in the C-segment, I will put 50% thinking to the car itself and equally, 50% to the After Sales and Service. So, no wonder, my vote goes to ANHC, inspite of the less equipments and premium price!
In my opinion & from the cars i have had, the real maintenance cost show up after about 4 years of good usage...i enjoyed my Zen like mad till about 3.5 years of buying.After which, every service i was invariably paying anywhere between 3 to 4k...now paying this amount for every 5k kms is little expensive ....isnt it! in addition to the fuel we fill ...

i wonder if it will be the same with my ANHC....should experience it if i will have it for next 3 years...
nandans2005 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pictorial Comparison: Maruti Ciaz vs City, Verna, Vento, Rapid, Linea, Fiesta & Manza a4anurag Sedans 214 26th November 2017 00:15
City City Bang Bang! 1000 kms Report of my Honda City SMT roadie_swift Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 39 4th June 2015 15:52
Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville mobike008 Superbikes & Imports 334 15th May 2015 10:24


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:23.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks