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View Poll Results: What petrol C segment sedan would you buy?
Honda City 1.5 iVtec 113 55.39%
Fiat Linea 1.4 Fire 91 44.61%
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Old 11th October 2009, 16:50   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
2. His colleague owns a Linea. Therefore this guy bought a Honda city so that he enjoys a "higher status"
Quote:
Originally Posted by parimal_g View Post
secretary ,one of my colleague and me went out of my car which was parked just next to my boss car and lady asked me "is this Boss's car..?" i said yes. The car was Fiesta D.Then she asked " is this car better than Honda .?" again i said yes.Then she was like how can a ford be better than Honda.
I'll tell you something funnier : Some people I know rate a Dzire as a better car than the Linea. The point? Lets stop talking about the ironical comments that one of our "someones we know" made. This discussion is going on well, and has taken a distinctly management side that is offering a good insight into the cars & the market.

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Originally Posted by Raj2402 View Post
After that bankruptcy news, the Spark sales did jump. All thanks to Karl slym who handsomely and bravely fought the condition and instead of hiding from press conferences he openly made people realize that foreign bankruptcy wouldnt affect indian operations. Very professionaly done, something which Fiat can do try in future too. CEO in ads telling people that its a new fiat with a new badge.
The worst thing a company can do in a crisis is say "no comments". I was pleasantly surprised at the brilliant way in which Slym handled public perception + fear. He took it headon! Upon himself as the leader of GM India and made his presence felt everywhere (including newspaper ads and their website). The result = Consumer confidence. The point = Even marred brands can minimise damage with the right level of commitment. This is a case study especially for Fiat.

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The clientele is different, it will have the indigo image attached to it.
No doubt, best example is the awesome Vista quadrajet. Tata itself put the Indica tag on it. Will be exciting to see how (if at all) they manage to pull the Manza away from the Indigo. I know they want to.

Quote:
Maybe yes. Tata mechanics are sort of "jugaad" types. If they cant find something to fix a noise or vibrations they may use tapes etc which will not work with Linea customers.
Not only the mechanics, even the factory has some innovative "juggad" solutions .

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People do think that in a Honda their status is much above those of hyundais or Fords on the road leave apart Fiat. Whoever i said to that am buying a Fiat Linea- their face expressions made me sad as i was buying a 2 decade old Ambassador. He didnt even know the Tech specs of car- nor the Linea nor anhc and told me to go get a anhc. He said "With Fiat teri image kharab hogi". Such is the attitude, he has a NHC. Maybe its how it will be a for a few years.
If this is the word on the street, its the company to blame. As stated earlier, the market did give Fiat a third chance (after the Uno debacle) with the Palio (3000 - 4000 cars a month). Unfortunately, they goofed it up and are paying the price. Work, Fiat, work!
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Old 11th October 2009, 18:04   #932
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If this is the word on the street, its the company to blame. As stated earlier, the market did give Fiat a third chance (after the Uno debacle) with the Palio (3000 - 4000 cars a month). Unfortunately, they goofed it up and are paying the price. Work, Fiat, work!
I see Fiat working quite hard! I have seen reports here in TBHP where the CEO has been making personal visits to almost all the Fiat showrooms in India and our folks got a chance to a brief chat with him too about Fiat India's future proposals . Now its easy to play it down but think how many CEOs do really care about coming to a dealership and make sure everything is on target!

And the way Fiat has responded so far to any Sales/Service voes from the owners is much positive & reassuring! They are doing their homework well this time. I am sure the Linea owners (not necessarily Fiat fans) would agree to this irrespective of their location in India.

The ANHC is still sailing on the 10 year old City brand name Honda have built. Its a tough fight for Fiat with the new products in their stable fighting a 10 year old brand.

An ~ 4:1 sales is a positive enough! They will come out in a good shape for sure and we can see the ratios reverse soon

Last edited by anachronix : 11th October 2009 at 18:05.
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Old 11th October 2009, 20:57   #933
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Is Fiat is able to sell what they are producing ?
What is their production capacity right now ?
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Old 11th October 2009, 22:02   #934
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'll tell you something funnier : Some people I know rate a Dzire as a better car than the Linea. The point? Lets stop talking about the ironical comments that one of our "someones we know" made. This discussion is going on well, and has taken a distinctly management side that is offering a good insight into the cars & the market.
with all due respect to you GTO : this discussion is also related to the "psyche" of car buyers, product positioning, branding and value perceived in a product by its users (actual and prospective)

Therefore I think such points are relevant because they tell the management how their products are perceived by prospective customers.
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Old 11th October 2009, 23:43   #935
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'll tell you something funnier : Some people I know rate a Dzire as a better car than the Linea. The point? Lets stop talking about the ironical comments that one of our "someones we know" made. This discussion is going on well, and has taken a distinctly management side that is offering a good insight into the cars & the market.
GTO, these ironical comments, for me, are indicative of uninformed buyers which would exist for ANHC as well as for Linea (or for any other car).

These uncover the point that there are ANHC buyers who are also uninformed similar to others which uncover ONHCs reliability.
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Old 12th October 2009, 02:19   #936
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This thread started off as a comparo between two cars. Now there is a raging debate as to which is the more successful car and there is a poll about which car I would buy, (I am not buying any car now).

As a driver (and as an owner), I am concerned about the car itself and how it runs i.e. performs, handles, ride etc. (I give more weightage to stability and handling than to ride comfort or acceleration, this is a personal thing and suits my temperament and driving style). Cars are meant to perform on the road and that is all I care about. I would let the accountants and statisticians figure out the performance in the market and not lose any sleep over it. I definitely would not buy a car just because my neighbour or his brother-in-law or his grocer or his butcher bought it.

About price, FE and maintainance costs, my take is as follows. If the car is interesting enough i.e. fun to drive, I would not mind paying more, or spending more on fuel, maintainance and depreciation. If the car was boring I would 'pass' notwithstanding its economy.

I however realise that I am in a very small minority and that most people would want their cars to cost a pittance, consume only a few drops of fuel every month and have all service and repair done free for life.

Oh yes, most car owners will spout figures of how fast the particular model he owns will go, or its 0-100 times (all gleaned from web-sites, newspapers and magazines) and feel good about it. He will however, not shift down on an incline but will lug the engine, he will dawdle on the rightmost lane on the expressway in his 'fast' car blissfully unaware that he is holding up much slower cars, buses etc. This is of course if he does ever take his car out of city limits. I see that a lot of cars including fast cars are used only for the urban crawl in bumper to bumper peak hour traffic. Forget acceleration times or top speeds, these cars almost never cross the top speed of a moped. Buying a car, any car he chooses, is the consumer's right but, as car lovers - should we be concerned with what people are buying or about the cars themselves?

Using the numbers to say that one product is better than the other is a dangerous thing. For example if we use that yardstick, porn is the best product of all as any bookseller or monitor of website traffic will tell us.

Cheers,
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Old 12th October 2009, 08:45   #937
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I see Fiat working quite hard! I have seen reports here in TBHP where the CEO has been making personal visits to almost all the Fiat showrooms in India and our folks got a chance to a brief chat with him too about Fiat India's future proposals .
Fiat's CEO, as well as others from the top management, are pulling all stops. They are really doing a great job of resurrecting the brand.

Quote:
And the way Fiat has responded so far to any Sales/Service voes from the owners is much positive & reassuring! They are doing their homework well this time. I am sure the Linea owners (not necessarily Fiat fans) would agree to this irrespective of their location in India.
True.

Quote:
The ANHC is still sailing on the 10 year old City brand name Honda have built. Its a tough fight for Fiat with the new products in their stable fighting a 10 year old brand.
While the 10 year old City brand helps, the product also has several similarities with the previous gen cars that helped build the brand. It retains the core brand values, and is a far better overall car than the OHC or the NHC.

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Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar View Post
with all due respect to you GTO : this discussion is also related to the "psyche" of car buyers, product positioning, branding and value perceived in a product by its users (actual and prospective)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
GTO, these ironical comments, for me, are indicative of uninformed buyers which would exist for ANHC as well as for Linea (or for any other car).
Exactly my point. These vague comments exist for each car brand out there and offer zero value to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Now there is a raging debate as to which is the more successful car
There is nothing to debate on which car is more successful. A 4:1 ratio in favour of the ANHC speaks of the market performance.

Quote:
About price, FE and maintainance costs, my take is as follows. If the car is interesting enough i.e. fun to drive, I would not mind paying more, or spending more on fuel, maintainance and depreciation. If the car was boring I would 'pass' notwithstanding its economy.
Personally, I find a 10 second car much more fun to drive than a 15 second car. And the difference in handling is not exactly a Innova versus Xylo kinda difference. The ANHC is also a good handler. Just because the Linea may have advantage in terms of sheer grip level doesn't make other cars from the segment bad. Further, the power of the ANHC will have you exploiting its handling way more than in the Linea which begs for a bigger engine.

Thus, you are right, I don't mind paying more for the ANHC over the Linea.

Quote:
Oh yes, most car owners will spout figures of how fast the particular model he owns will go, or its 0-100 times (all gleaned from web-sites, newspapers and magazines) and feel good about it.
We enthusiasts experience those figures more often than we spout them from magazines.
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:36   #938
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People buy things by keeping in mind what kind of value this product is going to provide them.
The image of Innova is of Taxi and people frankly do not like to buy it. But when they see what excellent car they are getting, they still buy it.
It is not due to Toyota only, they buy innova for. People buy it for the complete package which they are getting. And in fact willing to give a premium for that also.
Same case goes for ANHC also. And good thing in the case of ANHC is that it helps in your image and you do not have to think twice for the image part.

And many people feel that we are paying 1 or 2 lakh extra for ANHC but then we are willing to pay extra for extended maintenance, why, because we want that peace of mind.
Therefore people still love to put some extra money in ANHC, so they can relax and enjoy the ride.
Linea is good and nobody is against it I feel. But we want that peace of mind and we do not get that with FIAT right now. 2-3 years down the line, nobody knows.
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:05   #939
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
For example if we use that yardstick, porn is the best product of all as any bookseller or monitor of website traffic will tell us.

Cheers,

In fact Porn (content) and Religion (content) are the two best products that have been sold, being sold and will be sold in the world for long long time to come.

But Sales Volumes, Consumer Perceptions (satisfaction), Financial Performance (Revenues, Margins) are the only real measure of success when it comes to any product or business or company

from that perspective SWIFT D'zire is the most Popular SEDAN as of now in India. It is selling the largest numbers, for sure customers are satisfied with Maruti Brand and Product (else they would not have bought in such large numbers) and for sure it is profitable for maruti (else they would not have kept the product)

Last edited by StarVegabond : 12th October 2009 at 10:07.
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:25   #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
This thread started off as a comparo between two cars. Now there is a raging debate as to which is the more successful car and there is a poll about which car I would buy, (I am not buying any car now).


Using the numbers to say that one product is better than the other is a dangerous thing. For example if we use that yardstick, porn is the best product of all as any bookseller or monitor of website traffic will tell us.

Cheers,
Everyone knows which is the successful car. Fiat is in business and numbers are the yardstick. You have tried to put the points that you like in a particular car.

If numbers don't tell anything, then you sure are a minority. Any one monitoring bookshop or website will tell you that its the free kind available that is browsed but not bought.
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:40   #941
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Personally, I find a 10 second car much more fun to drive than a 15 second car. And the difference in handling is not exactly a Innova versus Xylo kinda difference. The ANHC is also a good handler. Just because the Linea may have advantage in terms of sheer grip level doesn't make other cars from the segment bad. Further, the power of the ANHC will have you exploiting its handling way more than in the Linea which begs for a bigger engine.
I have had enough of this 15 second thing about Linea. And I had defended enough in the past. Honestly, I have seen quite enough ANHC and others in city, Bangalore's famous ring roads, highways. I'm yet to see one ANHC who can enjoy that fun of 10 sec you are talking about in front of my Linea. Yes, my car had disappointed me on only one occassion. There were two Skoda Superb on the same day at different times on the same highway. My car wouldn't just pull beyond that 170 (three adults and one child) and they gradually overtook me.

BTW, I'm not talking about the petrol one. I'm talking about the diesel which the infamous megazines claimed 0-100 in some 15.8 secs, but never bothered to respond to my queries on how badly they drove the Linea, without any knowledge of the cars power bands and gear ratios (in fact this is supposed to come once one is used to the cars response, but Fiat gave quite a different gear ratio than others and others immediately feel a difference).

I have taken on one agressive NHC vtec on Bangalore Mysore highway. Both cars had enough passengers. Mine had four adults and two children (about 38 Kg together). He was obviously not willing to give way to me and there were other vehicles. Overtaking that at speed over 100 was a piece of cake. And that was on straight. I could have easily smoked on a curve for sure.

Now that is enough of showing off my agressive driving. But, what to do, that is what that poorly built cheap Linea does to me. The brakes, ah! I couldn't drive cars like Swift, Ritz, because I got used to Linea brakes. I had to drive those cars as test drive for one friend who was looking to buy one.

Anyways, I'm also trying out Race Dynamics to better power power band. At one point, I couldn't even notice that I was driving the stoke, as they had removed the air filter for the first run. My air filter is all back with smoke and chocked. RD has assured me to give a good map if I would drop my car to them for half a day. I have promised that I would do the same.

@GTO, you had also never accepted to take a strong note of the fact ANHC V MT in Bangalore cost 2.1 L more than a Linea petrol emotion pack. Yes, you did mention once to me that Delhi ex-showroom is the standard here. But, my point still is that in most cities, OTR price would make a lot of difference between the two cars.

Last edited by opendro : 12th October 2009 at 10:43. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:14   #942
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Opendro, i think the performance discussion is w.r.t. petrol lineas.

If street experiences are anything to go by, then all i have seen Lineas doing on the streets is just puttering along, being overtaken by traffic from all directions. But street experiences should NEVER be used to judge a car.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:24   #943
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Opendro, i think the performance discussion is w.r.t. petrol lineas.

If street experiences are anything to go by, then all i have seen Lineas doing on the streets is just puttering along, being overtaken by traffic from all directions. But street experiences should NEVER be used to judge a car.
I don't have experience on petrol linea. I agree with your opinion on street experience. But, on my frequent highway drives, I do encounter with enough determined car drivers of different cars on good roads dotted with a few trucks and buses and signals once in a while. Let me be clear here Linea is neither slow on the road nor do people use even the power of Linea fully. Yes, I would have loved a little more power for what the car is capable of. This desire of mine has nothing to do with how much power other cars on my way have.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:38   #944
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I don't have experience on petrol linea. I agree with your opinion on street experience. But, on my frequent highway drives, I do encounter with enough determined car drivers of different cars on good roads dotted with a few trucks and buses and signals once in a while. Let me be clear here Linea is neither slow on the road nor do people use even the power of Linea fully. Yes, I would have loved a little more power for what the car is capable of. This desire of mine has nothing to do with how much power other cars on my way have.
@Opendro , Every driver / car owner has a highway/street overtake story to tell. That does not make or break anything. These are very subjective examples. And yes, All cars are power at least adequately to make them pull and run. I am tired of reading this for long that linea "adquetly powered". That is true with 800 and nano too.
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Old 12th October 2009, 11:40   #945
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Let me be clear here Linea is neither slow on the road nor do people use even the power of Linea fully.
Hmm.. i wish i could edit my post, coz i kinda goofed up a little. I was under the impression that Linea diesel has an engine bigger than 1.3. Obviously i was wrong. I would like to understand how a car with significantly lesser horses be faster, if you take driver deficiencies out of the equation.

You see, i currently drive a ten year old OHC, which is spec'ced at 100BHP stock. If i went in for a car that has lesser horses under the hood and lesser peace of mind as well w.r.t. after sales support, it would not be an upgrade.
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