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Old 23rd January 2009, 22:35   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Rudy, the newer cars come with what is called dual mass flywheel which is really 2 smaller flywheels (masses) connected with springs (and maybe rubber). its designed to reduce engine torsional vibration. Only manuals have it (but I'm not sure about DSG)
All these are fine Deep. But those dual mass flywheel are only suppose to rotate. So what is the issue with car's behaviour?

Sam, it's high time you find out more!

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 23rd January 2009 at 22:37.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 22:43   #47
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Sam,

Get a 2nd opinion asap. I do not think the fly wheel would just go like that. Get the car out and get a 2nd opinion. And yes you havent yet let us know if the car is a manual or a DSG ?
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Old 23rd January 2009, 22:45   #48
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Doesn't N_C know the guys at JMD vashi. Take the car there and get it shown to them.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 22:53   #49
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DMFs are more prone to failure in case of power upgrades/hard launches, though I hardly think that is applicable here.

Sam, you haven't told us if this is a DSG or a manual. I think the Jettas have had issues with their DSGs, so this may be one of those instances.

Knowing Skoda, it could be something totally different, not even related to the clutch.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 22:58   #50
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Quote:
Skodas have a dual mass flywheel
There has been several complaints against dual mass flywheels in many European cars. In fact, some critics define them now as dual mess flywheel.

DMF video (how it works) -

Last edited by sbasak : 23rd January 2009 at 23:04.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 23:02   #51
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Hmm... there are even you tube videos on the subject -



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Old 24th January 2009, 00:04   #52
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
1) Dose, you obviously need to read up on previous incidents where "demanding" things has lead to a fruitful outcome. Few businesses will take money out of their kitty when approached politely. However, legal action & publicity in the press has led to many a dealership / manufacturer bending over backward. Heck, Team-BHP threads have made the biggest knock on their customers doors (again, search through our archives).

2) Your doubts are baseless. The consumer court has often given verdicts in favour of the customer, despite the product being out of warranty. And yes, legally too, Skoda could owe this customer a replacement. The only reason I haven't recommended Sam a legal route is because JBL is too busy to waste their time with lawyers on a 36 grand repair. However, if the amount were larger, I certainly would.

3) Why am I speaking with authority? Because I have had Mercedes make good for my defective C Class. DESPITE the car being out of warranty. Go figure.
1) Please post a link to a thread where demanding something impolitely convinced the company to make a gesture of goodwill. I was unable to find anything. Courts, press, etc. come later when the company refuses to issue a goodwill gesture and the customer is willing and has the resources to fight a long-term battle.

2) Besides the Bata shoe case, please show a case where the problem began after warranty expiration and the court ruled in favour of the customer. If JBL is too busy for courts, it is easier to politely request a gesture of goodwill rather than impolitely demand Skoda to repair it.

3) Unless I am mistaken your C-class started giving problems well before the warranty ended. However, in this case, the car's problems have started after the warranty ended.


Excellent advice from Manveet below:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1143032

Last edited by Dose : 24th January 2009 at 00:16.
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Old 24th January 2009, 14:48   #53
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post

And, I see lot of Laura with faulty brake lights, mostly one is ON when the engine is on. Faulty electronics?
This is probably the rear fog light on. I have heard of some chaps hard-wiring it as a 'safety feature'. Must be some higher logic not easily understood by us normal humans.
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Old 24th January 2009, 15:19   #54
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Default The best is the cheapest - at least it should be!

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Originally Posted by revhappy View Post
So legally speaking there isn't much that can be done, I guess.
Rs 36,000 for a 15 lacs car is not much dude it is like 2000 bucks for a maruti 800. So tell your MD not to lose his peace of mind and get it fixed.

Cheers,
Nitin
IMHO if I paid 15 lakhs for a 'premium' car, I would expect premium quality and premium service and would expect it to outlive me without me having to pay for replacements etc.

It is totally unfair to expect one to pay 36K for a faulty part after having paid a whopping 15Lakhs initially. I would expect a car that costs 3 times as much as another, to be 3 times better. This expectation is reasonable as the presumtion is that manufacturer would have used material that is much better than cheaper alternatives.

As others have pointed out, the dealer and Skoda are out on a limb and can be hauled over coals in court.

Cheers
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Old 24th January 2009, 15:56   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dose View Post
Whether it has run 10 km or 1,00,000 km, it's still a German car. What does he expect? Owners who own these cars outside the warranty period need to have deep pockets, patience, and a backup Japanese car.

Actually he should be happy. If this is the only major problem he has had in three years, it's excellent for a German car. And the fact that the problem was diagnosed early by the dealer instead of it suddenly failing, leaving him stranded on the side of the road, is a bonus.

I agree with sideways.

Being of German (Czech+German actually) or Japanese origin is not the issue. Incidentally I have used cars of European descent - British, Italian and German. In fact I use one of the same Czech/German descent as described in this thread. I have never had any problems with them, on the other hand I have found them to be sturdy reliable steeds which, with a little care, labour on for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dose View Post
Sideways,

If you did not understand something I wrote, please ask and I will be happy to clarify..
We do understand what you said in your post, but cannot fathom the reasons for it. Have you had any bad experiences with German vehicles and good experiences with Japanese vehicles? If so please share them with us in the forum instead of making sweeping statements.

Cheers and happy driving.
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Old 24th January 2009, 17:13   #56
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
I think, that's the key difference.

It was a Mercedes, coming from a company which clearly focuses on maintaining its high reputation. Even though they had reliability issues in past, they obviously were conscious of it and were trying to make amends by offering "goodwill warranty".
I couldn't agree anymore. However inefficient their quality control may be, Mercs customer service is stellar. In the past 12 months, my car has had two major replacements and one minor. Mercedes & Auto Hangar either replaced them for free, or subsidised the cost big time (Think 75%). This, despite the warranty expiring 19 months back. Merc as well as Auto Hangar do bend over backward to keep me happy. I may hate their reliability record, but my trust in the brand isn't zilch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
P.S : @GTO : Your link to the tuner's database doesn't work. It just shows the root page. Noticed this in some other posts also - broken code?
We intentionally route people to the main page of that section (as well as in the reviews). Because the landing page says a lot about the value behind those listings. We'd like people to read that note first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dose View Post
1) Please post a link to a thread where demanding something impolitely convinced the company to make a gesture of goodwill. I was unable to find anything.
In that case, I'd suggest you spend a little more time with us or go through our archives in detail. I could tell you of how Ichibaan paid 25,000 + free repairs for damaging an OHC Vtec, or how a customers car was replaced after 3 years of ownership (and well beyond its warranty period) or how GM had to refund the entire ex-showroom price because of their claim that the Astra was German engineered (when it wasn't) or how Navin just couldn't get delivery of his new car until a phone call was made or how a bust engine was replaced with new (NOT rebuilt) etc. etc. In recent time, I also recollect a thread where a gentlemans car was replaced primarily because he got a car that was manufactured 6 months earlier than it should have (but still didn't have any defects). I could also link to atleast 30 threads, however I am hard-pressed for time at the moment (being on a holiday) and on a Tata USB internet connection (which isn't the quickest) and have a lot of more important TBHP stuff to do than spend time searching through the archive. Again, I suggest you hold that comment until spending more time with us.

Plus, if you don't think that an aggressive demand WONT lead to a dealership or company making good to the customer, that's your judgement. And I might add, couldn't be any more off the mark if my experiences are anything to go by. Heck, if you will politely nod when a dealership asks you to go fly a kite, that's entirely your call too. I know I don't take crap. Especially when I have paid from my own hard-earned money for a premium brand / car.

Lets also use some common sense and think from the other point of view. If I am a business owner / leader, and a thread / article is going to ruin my reputation due to 20,000 views of content relevant to my incompetent handling of a customer, you bet I will call that customer and replace whatever needs to be replaced. Reputation, to me, is more important than a couple of thousand bucks. Evidently, it is the same case with a majority of automotive brands. Too bad for the minority.

Does Skoda care? Hell no. But that is exactly why they (alongwith their dealers) have built such a terrible reputation. And lose customers due to that negative reputation each day.

Quote:
Courts, press, etc. come later when the company refuses to issue a goodwill gesture and the customer is willing and has the resources to fight a long-term battle.
I don't understand how this fits in with your earlier posts of advice. You did state that legally, Skoda owes nothing to this Skoda owner. And neither did you at that time know Sam well enough (presumably) to make a call on him being unwilling / unresourceful to fight a long-term battle. And for the record, Sam did state in his opening post that Skoda has refused a replacement - goodwill or otherwise. You got me confused. Are you recommending legal action or not? Earlier you didn't. However, this quoted post of yours seems to suggest that legal action is the way to go if a goodwill gesture has been denied.

Quote:
please show a case where the problem began after warranty expiration and the court ruled in favour of the customer.
The consumer court could care less if the product is within warranty period or not, so don't stress too much on that. Judgements have ruled in the manufacturers favour DESPITE the car being in warranty, or in the consumers favour DESPITE the car being out of warranty. I will openly admit to either situation. Broadly, what the consumer court expects is that:

- The product should perform reliably for a reasonable period of time. Define reasonable? Sorry, it varies from case to case.

- If the product is faulty, and the manufacturer has made reasonable efforts to set things right (at their own cost & time), and has succeeding in restoring reliability, the consumer doesn't have a case.

- If the product is faulty, and keeps failing despite the manufacturers several efforts, OR if there is a manufacturing defect, the ball is in the consumers court.

Warranties are decided by the manufacturer. Hell, there are still some cars sold in India which come with a one year warranty only. Good luck to the manufacturer if there is a serious failure due to manufacturing defects, 3 months after the warranty has expired, and they refuse to set it right. If the warranty period was the be-all and end-all, not a single manufacturer would be offering extended warranties for up to 5 years right now.

And yes, a flywheel failure (presuming it has really failed) in 10,000 kms isn't any more than a manufacturing defect. Atleast, there is a 99% chance of a manufacturing defect versus a 1% chance of some other factor.

Quote:
If JBL is too busy for courts, it is easier to politely request a gesture of goodwill rather than impolitely demand Skoda to repair it.
Did you even read the opening post of this thread? Sam already made it clear that Skoda WAS contacted. And knowing Sams flair for the language, it couldn't have been any more polite. They have ALREADY denied a goodwill replacement. Again, whats the point? Do you actually have any sound advice to offer him?

Quote:
3) Unless I am mistaken your C-class started giving problems well before the warranty ended.
Yup, you are mistaken. A lot of the significant problems started AFTER the warranty ended. In fact, our first point of contact with Mercedes was well after the warranty had expired as well. The replacement had as much to do with problems WITHIN the warranty period as after. WRT politeness versus otherwise, you really ought to look up my thread on the matter and find me an ounce of the P in there.

Last edited by GTO : 24th January 2009 at 17:29.
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Old 24th January 2009, 18:35   #57
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I can tell how I got a set of decent wheel nuts to go with my Maruti Swift Alloy wheels, instead of putting up with the ones that came with the steel tyres --- by talking very loudly in a busy showroom, and refusing to discussing it in the office. Of course I started off by asking nicely, politely, and of course one always should, but there are limits. OK, that was just a few rupees, but it is the same principle. Embarrassment is a powerful weapon, and one should not be, err... embarrassed to use it.

What stands out in this case, over and above the young age of the vehicle, is the incredibly low mileage: lower than many would do in a single year. If part of the engine that in no way ranks as a consumable has failed after 10,000km, then, either by design or manufacture, something is seriously wrong surely.

Sam and his father should, if the polite approach fails, shout as loud, and as public, as it takes.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 24th January 2009 at 18:36.
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Old 24th January 2009, 18:50   #58
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Sam

Try getting the wheels balanced - the noise might disappear!
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Old 24th January 2009, 18:53   #59
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Jeez!! Even a Maruti doesnt give flywheel problems in 10K kms, assuming its treated decently. I always knew the Skoda brand was plagued by bad customer service and lousy dealerships. But this really is the last nail in the coffin. Obsessed by quality my foot. Seriously, no Skodas for me...ever.

I hope Skoda and the dealer are put thru the wringer for this one.

Rgds,

R2D2
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Old 24th January 2009, 20:20   #60
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Sam and his father should, if the polite approach fails, shout as loud, and as public, as it takes.
Arrey baba, why are we getting Sam's father into the picture?
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