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Old 29th January 2009, 04:31   #31
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Originally Posted by Atlblkz06 View Post
Proper pedal modulation is very important.
Not on an ABS vehicle. If you do pedal modulation on an ABS vehicle, you are defeating the purpose of ABS. In fact, I had to unlearn(pedal modulation) when I bought an ABS vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Atlblkz06 View Post
There are 2 sides to every coin and I just want to make sure you don't hero-worship any of these safety devices

I think driving skills will save the day - but auto makers want to sell cars so they invent clever gadgets.

Do I believe in airbags and ABS? Yes! My 2 seater has 4 airbags and my 4 seater has 7. They both have ABS as well. However I don't rely on them. Safety is MY responsibility, not my car's.

I know you agree with me there!
No hero worship or anything. I have used ABS enough to know its value. I hope I don't need an airbag ever. They may have their cons(everything has), but studies have shown that pros far outweigh the cons.

Driving skills are important, but not a substitute for safety devices. Supreme confidence is good, but remember that even the best get caught out some time where he/she comes short. An insurance for these situations is always good.

Safety is one's own responsibility, yes, and one should get as much safety as his money can buy, IMO.
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:58   #32
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People who have experienced a couple of decent accidents will vouch for ABS and Airbags. I havenít come across any one claiming ABS caused the accident! Even if there is someone, it most probably is the driverís mistake or just an unavoidable accident.
Dont think you need to experience any (decent???) accidents. A near-accident is also enough to convince anyone. Was on the blore-chennai highway the other day. Doing a cool 120-130 on an empty stretch with just a container ahead of me. About to overtake him on the rightmost lane and I am also honking as I'm about to overtake since hes a really big guy. Suddenly the idiot switches to the right lane without prior notice and for no reason (there was no one stopping on the left side or no one to overtake, wonder why he did that) just as Im about to go past him. Hit the brakes enough to bring the car down to 70 quickly, but I'm still in danger of hitting him. This is where I press the brakes harder, and I could "feel" the abs, in the sense that I knew that on a non abs car this is probably the point where I would have skid, or gone on to hit the guy in front. The abs gave me perfect control over the car(given that the verna has light steering) and I managed to stop her well short of the truck in the end. Gave the driver a "hornful" as I went by after that. You can never underestimate the value of your brakes, or overestimate the driving abilities of other people on the road.
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:08   #33
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I'm somewhat confused by the folks who think that they can "modulate" their brake pedal to achieve superior braking than a car with ABS. Can you seriously apply and release your brake pedal up to 20 times per second?? And do you have four brake pedals fitted in your car, one for every wheel, and can you tell at any point in time which wheel is about to lock-up and release the brake for that wheel??

If you can do all that, I seriously would like to have your autograph.

From wikipedia:

A typical ABS is composed of a central electronic control unit (ECU), four wheel speed sensors — one for each wheel — and two or more hydraulic valves within the brake hydraulics. The ECU constantly monitors the rotational speed of each wheel, and when it detects a wheel rotating significantly slower than the others — a condition indicative of impending wheel lock — it actuates the valves to reduce hydraulic pressure to the brake at the affected wheel, thus reducing the braking force on that wheel. The wheel then turns faster; when the ECU detects it is turning significantly faster than the others, brake hydraulic pressure to the wheel is increased so the braking force is reapplied and the wheel slows. This process is repeated continuously, and can be detected by the driver via brake pedal pulsation. A typical anti-lock system can apply and release braking pressure up to 20 times a second.
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Old 29th January 2009, 17:19   #34
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i'd say that the manufacturer shoud'nt make a car without enough safty features. when one has option to save money, obviously he will save. and when there is no option then one has to buy a vehcial with security feature.
and more over they should have a seat belt alarming system and insist you to wear a seatblet like in BMW. that thig really irritates you if you not wearing a seatblet and you end up wearing it.
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Old 29th January 2009, 17:26   #35
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I think government should at least make Air Bags as a compulsory feature, just like Seat belts were made few years back.
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Old 29th January 2009, 17:29   #36
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Instead of Airbags, ABS should be made compulsory. Lack of Airbags will only hurt you, but lack of ABS might hurt other cars/pedestrians/2 wheelers on the road as well.
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Old 29th January 2009, 21:36   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its.me.ankur View Post
I think government should at least make Air Bags as a compulsory feature, just like Seat belts were made few years back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Instead of Airbags, ABS should be made compulsory. Lack of Airbags will only hurt you, but lack of ABS might hurt other cars/pedestrians/2 wheelers on the road as well.
Airbags must not be made compuslsory. First the body shells of the cars sold in India need to be evaluated. What happens when in case of front crash in Maruti Omni at around 60 kmph inflates the airbags ?
The structures of cars have to sufficiently strong in the first place. Here a lot of work has to be done. Any manufacturer, be it maurti or Mercedes-Benz, I seriously doubt that the quality of cars they sell in India is as good as the cars they sell in developed markets.
Making Airbags will just increase the death rate.
1) Make some feature like seatbelt reminder. But I am sure to shut down the reminder, the smart humans will just put the belt in buckle first and then care to sit. So the system is fooled.
2) Make the body shell evaluation stanadard for each and every car sold in India irrespective of cost.
3) Now make features compulsory.

What I am trying to say is that first make the Passive safety better and then give active features. Out of active features, ABS must me made standard to all cars. They have it in Europe.
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Old 29th January 2009, 21:45   #38
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
the smart humans will just put the belt in buckle first and then care to sit.
Or put a one rupee coin inside the buckle
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Old 29th January 2009, 21:56   #39
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Or put a one rupee coin inside the buckle
That would be an utter waste. Arm critics like t-bhpians should realise that for hard working people of India, one rupee is a huuuuuuuuuuuugeeeee sum.

I would bet that most people will borrow a pair of pliers from somebody and simply cut the wires to the warning system.

Heh!!!!!
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Old 30th January 2009, 00:56   #40
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Originally Posted by pras.oct25 View Post
@mods If this is in the wrong place please move

Hey guys,
Was just talking to a friend of mine who's family plans to buy a car. He is still learning and cannot even drive enough to TD yet. But coming to the point.
Based on my recommendation of the hyundai i10 he went to the hyundai showroom to check out the car. He also saw the swift at maruti.
Apparently the sales chaps at both the showrooms have told him to compromise on the safety features as he saves up to 50k, and that he can go for the base or the middle models, because features such as abs and airbags are "not rquired in indian conditions", and he has very conveniently believed this also.
I was shocked at this and gave him a big lecture as to why there are so many reasons why he SHOULD go for the safety features and not compromise on safety in indian conditions.
Its very sad that the dealerships themselves dont highlight the necessary for safety. Car manufacturers also put in safety features only in the high end models, the main difference between the higher end and the lower end models of a car lie in the lack of safety features, and ppl go for the lower end cause they save 50k or more, and this in turn is largely responsible for the number of road accidents and deaths occuring. The question is, apart from the general lack of discipline of the people, are dealers who guide people in the wrong way and manufacturers who fail to incorporate enough safety into the cars they sell, one of the biggest contributors to road accidents in india?
That was what started this thread! So getting back to basics - ABS & ESP might prevent accidents in the first place, the others like Airbags, seat-belts etc. reduce injury and/or fatality in case you are in an accident.

The biggest contributor to accidents in India is the poor driving skills, ignorance of the rules, poor maintainance of vehicles, and unsafe driving habits like driving on the wrong side, overtaking from the left. overtaking on a blind left turn, driving under the influence of alcohol or other drugs, driving when fatigued, the list is endless. I have left out poor road conditions from this list as my logic is - if you know the roads are bad and are good for only 40 Kmph ....what the hell are you doing, driving over a 100 Kmph?

Therefore the dealers do add to the number of dead and injured by pushing the versions without the safety features but, I do not think they contribute to the number of accidents per se.
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Old 30th January 2009, 05:25   #41
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In terms of safety and the questions raised here, lets just take the case of mobikes and the great helmet rule.

we all know that it is certainly necessary to wear a helmet while riding a bike, so as to prevent eventualities of head injuries.

lets ask ourselves the foll:
1. Is it absolutely mandatory as per government/ motor vehicle rules to wear a helmet?
2. How many of us see this rule being flouted each day?
3. Is there a uniform helmet policy across India or does it vary place to place/ state to state?
4. How many of us have seen the helmet rule being enforced?
5. Is there an uniform helmet policy across urban and rural India?
6. Honestly,lets ask ourselves how many of us would wear the helmet for a short 100-200 yard ride near one's house to bring back say a sachet of milk or loaf of bread from the grocery shop?

Then lets talk about safety and all these high sounding sentiments which one is able to see on this thread.

Dont get me wrong - I am all for safety norms and safety equipment, but some of these sentiments come across here as being sanctimonious, largely because in India, a car is still very much a luxury toy and something only a reasonably well off person can afford - and even this, is relative. Lets bear this in mind.
Cheers
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Old 30th January 2009, 08:34   #42
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6. Honestly,lets ask ourselves how many of us would wear the helmet for a short 100-200 yard ride near one's house to bring back say a sachet of milk or loaf of bread from the grocery shop?
I would wear a seat belt for that.

...well, actually, I'd walk. Even I would not take a vehicle for 200 yards! But that sort-of spoils the example; an accident can occur in a 2 minute journey as well as in a 2-hour one.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 13:35   #43
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Attention Manucaturers: Making safety features mandatory in vehicles is a good idea. But before that, how many of our 'indian' vehicles will pass a crash test? I'm sure the crash dummy will turn up as 1000 peices in the omni!

Drivers: Sorry guys, but we are all a sick bunch (exceptions not included) when it comes to driving. We have absolutely no respect for safety and no consideration for the other drivers or pedestrians.

Attention Government: I dont think majority drivers are ignorant of the rules. We just dont have enough roads to drive. The biggest problem with indian roads is the huge difference in the speed of different vehicles on the road. We find trucks cruising at 20 kmph on the same road where a car does 120 kmph! To that mess add the animals, pedestrians, the bullock carts, tractors and other crawlers. Just imagine if you find a dead slow vehicle right in front of you when you overtook at 120 kmph. IMO, this is the biggest problem and the number one accident cause. Seperate the lanes and put all the vehicles in lanes/roads matching thier speeds.
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Old 5th February 2009, 00:46   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
lets ask ourselves the foll:
1. Is it absolutely mandatory as per government/ motor vehicle rules to wear a helmet?
2. How many of us see this rule being flouted each day?
3. Is there a uniform helmet policy across India or does it vary place to place/ state to state?
4. How many of us have seen the helmet rule being enforced?
5. Is there an uniform helmet policy across urban and rural India?
6. Honestly,lets ask ourselves how many of us would wear the helmet for a short 100-200 yard ride near one's house to bring back say a sachet of milk or loaf of bread from the grocery shop?

Then lets talk about safety and all these high sounding sentiments which one is able to see on this thread.
I am probably one of the very few, who would answer a resounding YES to question 6. Everytime I am on a two wheeler(even pillion), I make sure I have helmet on. Learnt the hard way, so I know what happens when you hit tarmac without one. Have seen friends smashed up in accidents where they could have just walked out if they were wearing protective gear. Being part of a bike club helps too, to have a better perspective about safety.

But it all boils down to the importance one attaches to one's own life. We have this air of invincibility around us, and some of us learn the lesson when the bubble breaks the first time. Some don't, and pay the price. With their life.

Government can only do so much. Indians are anyway not renown for our law abiding nature. We always try to find loopholes, workarounds etc.

Last edited by kuttapan : 5th February 2009 at 00:48.
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Old 5th February 2009, 02:09   #45
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I am probably one of the very few, who would answer a resounding YES to question 6. Everytime I am on a two wheeler(even pillion), I make sure I have helmet on.
Good!

I learnt to wear a seatbelt always just seconds into a journey; the car had barely accelerated beyond walking pace when the driver had to slam on the brake. No injury; just enough pain to make me think about what might happen at even a slightly higher speed.

I'd say that it is all about education --- but then I remember how many years I smoked, and I cannot claim nobody ever tried to tell me
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