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View Poll Results: Larger step forward?
Vista 186 60.39%
Xylo 122 39.61%
Voters: 308. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th February 2009, 10:58   #106
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
amit, i was talking about your comment about the non-crde engine of the older scorpio: "mahindra's involvement was just cast iron"!
Bro it was discussed while discussing R&D capability , I can bet on this the block was from Older Mahindra Engine. Rest of the Engine design was from AVL and Bosch. This is a fact accepted by Mahindra Guys themselves so why are you so much disturbed by it ?
This was exactly how Mahindra controlled costs and developed scorpio in such less cost.

Mr. Anand Mahindra touts capability of finding vendors and creating scorpio as M&Ms core strength in all the business publications and list out who did what and how they controlled costs. This kind of innovation is called process innovation. The design innovation is something different the kind which Tata did for Nano ( not Indica Vista).
If you are taking tried and tested components and work on controlling costs you will get a reliable and cheap product. On other hand you design on your own then you develop capability but not reliability until that design is matched by Testing and QA.

Manufacturers provides test beds / feedback and process for manufacturing and give feedback to design houses and that's what Mahindra does for its design houses.
Engine development is slightly different from engine manufacturing.

This is something similar to Nokia - TI relationship for GSM/GPRS phones or LG / Samsung / Kyocerra and Qualcomm relationship for CDMA and WCDMA phones and they put a sticker powered by Qualcomm at the back.


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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
even top rated companies seek help from external source for building engines. but we never say its NOT their engine. for example the 1.3 multijet unit is built by FIAT. nobody is asking for a detailed analysis as to who helped FIAT to what extent. its an excellent engine & hence FIAT has received numerous awards for it. so why cant mahindra be given the credit for the mEagle & mHawk? i feel you under-rate mahindra a lot!
Did I ever say mahindra is not top rated ? All I am saying is they still do not develop engines on thier own.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

why do TATA AIG need automobile students in their company? i dont have any big respect for TATA's R&D as their products have not impressed me one bit. but leaving that apart, lets get to the what the actual debate was...
Strictly business of Tata AIG and its between students joining and them but people joining Tata AIG in no way related to Tata Moters and thier R&D and this is the point I was making.
Insurence companies are mass employment generators and can recruit anyone and everyone who brings business to them it is up to people joining them to think and decide what is best for carrier.


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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post


mahindra is using its own engine in the xylo, even if bosch has helped them, its mahindra's engine! TATA uses FIAT's engine, so when we are doing a comparo in this respect, additional points should be given to mahindra. if mahindra's effort in the mEagle is less, TATA's effort in the multijet is ZERO!
So what is the extra point here ? I see this purely as marketing issue.
Mahindra paid for engine design and branded it as Mahindra engine.
Tata License it from FIAT and branded it as Quadrajet but people at dealership and T-BHP know it as same engine as FIAT multijet and at times dealers leverage on legacy of FIAT.

Both sources technology and parts from elsewhere and mass manufacture engines in thier plant what is the difference and extra point ?

Last edited by amitk26 : 9th February 2009 at 11:07.
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Old 9th February 2009, 14:38   #107
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Guys, lets quit with the OT discussion and focus on the Vista versus Xylo discussion only. Both of you have made your point.
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Old 9th February 2009, 15:19   #108
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I feel Tata Indica Vista is much better than the Mahindra Xylo. The Vista has won many awards as well. The completely localized car has made good inroads to the international car market as well. I drove my friend's vista just a few weeks back and trust me I had a great driving experience.
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Old 9th February 2009, 15:36   #109
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Guys, lets quit with the OT discussion and focus on the Vista versus Xylo discussion only. Both of you have made your point.
i second that. its not a worthy debate anyways.
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Old 14th May 2009, 18:14   #110
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Bumping an old thread 'coz need some information

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Compared to Tata who have outsourced their best engine, Mahindra has developed the engine themselves.
Does someone have absolute proof or some documentation that Mahindra has developed an auto engine completely on its own. The design and the manufacturing.
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Old 14th May 2009, 18:23   #111
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I feel Xylo is a bigger move because its projected as a Sedan with a SUV look and much roomier than Vista.
I was aghast looking at the C pillar of Vista,which is thinner than a bean stalk(im exaggerating a bit),but this doesnt sound safe for rear passengers,if there is a rear impact..god forbidden.
Again each one has his perspective.
I have a great regard for Tata and their engg skills.But they have their own drawbacks.
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Old 14th May 2009, 18:42   #112
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Bumping an old thread 'coz need some information



Does someone have absolute proof or some documentation that Mahindra has developed an auto engine completely on its own. The design and the manufacturing.
Already discussed at length here .. Look for Bosch with in this thread
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Old 14th May 2009, 18:49   #113
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Already discussed at length here .. Look for Bosch with in this thread
Thanks. But need some external links etc.

Edit: Something on the lines of, If I ask you to prove to me that Mahindra has developed an indigenous engine, will you be able to substantiate that claim ?

Last edited by Eddy : 14th May 2009 at 18:51.
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Old 14th May 2009, 19:29   #114
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Thanks. But need some external links etc.

Edit: Something on the lines of, If I ask you to prove to me that Mahindra has developed an indigenous engine, will you be able to substantiate that claim ?
well it was all over in press I hope you can google it up . few press releases for you.

Bosch supplies CRDi localised for Indian market to Mahindra for 2.6 Scorpio ( 2005) - Hindu Buysiness line

The Hindu Business Line : Bosch CRDi for M&M's new Scorpio

From the Bosch site
Bosch - Success

mHwack and AVL involvement
Mahindra Scorpio M-Hawk Launched in India, Coming to U.S.

http://teammahindramail.com/mahindra...ilestones.html

EMERGING MARKETS ANALYSIS: Mahindra’s quiet but steady expansion: Automotive News & Comment
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Old 14th May 2009, 20:36   #115
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My vote goes to xylo, fit and finish of the overall product is great from a company like mahindra.
Indica is good, yes, from a commercial vehicle maker like Tata but there still are small niggles every now and then in an Indica.
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Old 14th May 2009, 21:38   #116
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@ amit: bosch has supplied common rail parts, AVL has helped mahindra. does anybody know to what extent? is an engine all about the injectors? who designed the engine? if AVL, to what extent?

Last edited by raj_5004 : 14th May 2009 at 21:39.
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Old 14th May 2009, 21:40   #117
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My votes goes to Vista. People have seen this car improving and re-improving and such a good car now. Xylo is just a start.

Indica will surely go long long way from here
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Old 14th May 2009, 21:48   #118
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We have had the strength to build MPV's and MUV's since ages. Tata sumo, Mahindra bolero, mahindra scorpio, Tata Sumo grande, Tata Safari, ICML RHino and various vehicles by Force motors.

What we still lack is the real experience in making proper cars. Indica vista is miles ahead of what Tata Indica was and I believe that makes Vista a bigger success than Xylo.

Hope Mahindra and ICML (Which already has a car at hand ready for production) launch good quality cars which can compete on world stage.
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Old 15th May 2009, 17:01   #119
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about the mHawk, got concrete news from a mahindra insider who is a friend of mine. sorry, cannot reveal name or position due to obvious reasons.
the mHawk engine was a totally indegenious project. it was built in-house & the engine design was done by mahindra. AVL has helped mahindra in the design of certain components like fuel pump, mahindra engineers had given them the specifications & requirements, AVL helped them with the design of such components. bosch supplies the common rail system.

@ eddy: sorry buddy, cant give you proof or any documentation, but i have no reasons to disbelief this guy who gave me this info.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 15th May 2009 at 17:03.
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Old 15th May 2009, 17:21   #120
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all this is fine - but while Tata vehicles generally launch many variants etc in a relatively shorter time frame but constantly fiddle about experimenting with the "consumer as guinea pig".
Mahindra on the other hand doesnt talk much, but do a great deal of homework and then launch a product - so far I do believe whatever they've launched has been pretty much a success from the consumer point of view.

This is not about bias towards any manufacturer - just step back a bit and I think the facts as above become apparent.
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