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Old 5th February 2009, 15:20   #16
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Heard that they have unpaid dues of Rs.480+ crores to their vendors.

I guess the 70,000 each they will collect on the Nano will help them tide over the shortages.
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Old 5th February 2009, 18:38   #17
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I said this before, and I will say it again. I think, the JLR was not only an ill timed move right in the peak of the Financial/Credit/Funding bubble but also a stupid decision. Honda and BMW which are two fairly deep pocketed and technologically advanced companies have owned and tried to turn around the rover group and failed. Both losts millions of dollars before exiting these companies. Tata's has quality issues with their India vehicles which are fairly basic and not loaded with technology and have a hard enought time competing with Maruti, Hyundai etc? How in the world will the have the funding and technology to proide Jaguar to compete with it's peers like Lexus, Mercedes and BMW??

I think in the peak of our stock market bubble India CEOs got a huge ego boost and decided that they can take on the world. Tata is paying the price with its JLR and Corus steel aquisitions. I think we should learn from the Japenese. Even Toyotas inital entry in the US market was a failure. They build up a company from scratch without trying to aquire some Marquee brand in the US which had failed !!

Tatas can start by becoming a leader in the domestic market before trying to gamble on the world stage.
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:22   #18
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On the Hindsight, lot of things will seem to be a mistake. But I do not think that JLR acquisition is a mistake. From a manufacturing standpoint, as of now I would say TATA has mastered the exterior look and paint job . But they still have miles to go literally on

1) Engine Manufacturing
2) Car Interiors
3) Build Quality
4) Body Frame Construction (Chasis, Suspension, etc.)
5) Advanced Automobile Electronics integration

As of now, IMO Mahindra have leapfrogged TATA in some of the above mentioned aspects. Here is where JLR purchase could be very strategic and help TATA make good cars if nothing else. But in the long run, I hope JLR would be successful.

TATA is also acting like a very responsible Corporation. Just because the holding company has money, they will not drain that into TATA motors. TATA Motors has to be profitable in its own way.It is a given that it will face lots of difficulties, but let's hope that it will come out on top.
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:41   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
. Tatas can start by becoming a leader in the domestic market before trying to gamble on the world stage.
As far as I am aware more than 50% of overall TATA revenues come from abroad. Not sure of the % for TATA motors though.

Also, hindsight is such a wonderful tool, isn't it?

It is right that there is a clear directive from Mr Ratan Tata that every TATA company has to survive and make profits on its own. One of the very few business houses where the top executives are mulling over taking a pay cut as one of the ways to keep costs under control. Whilst on the other hand the new US president had to step in and cap the ceiling of executive bonuses. Bravo!

Meanwhile, attaching the latest offer on TATA cars for TATA employees.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf feb09_specialoffers_tatamotor.pdf (673.3 KB, 368 views)

Last edited by abk : 5th February 2009 at 21:43. Reason: spelling error
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:46   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abk View Post
As far as I am aware more than 50% of overall TATA revenues come from abroad. Not sure of the % for TATA motors though.
Tata has a huge consortium of companies. We are talking about Tata Motors so the income of another Tata group company will not help the Tata Motors numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
But I do not think that JLR acquisition is a mistake.

As of now, IMO Mahindra have leapfrogged TATA in some of the above mentioned aspects. Here is where JLR purchase could be very strategic and help TATA make good cars if nothing else. But in the long run, I hope JLR would be successful.
The problem my friend is not with Tata. The problem is with JLR. They haven't been doing well against the premium brands like Lexus, Merc, BMW, etc. I am talking about sales numbers and profitability guys, not emotianal arguments about JLR.

After spending a huge amount of money to buy JLR how does Tata plan to improve their products to compete with the other Global Luxury brands. Developing a world class luxury brand requires a lot of money. It not like developing the Sumo Grande or Vista... IF they wanted to get technology to improve their indian products, there are cheaper ways than spending billions to buy JLR outright. I wish as much as you that they are successfull, but the experience of past owners like Honda and BMW was bad..

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Last edited by Technocrat : 6th February 2009 at 20:51. Reason: see note in post
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Old 5th February 2009, 23:45   #21
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Any Indian politicians to the rescue?.. God save TATA.
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Old 6th February 2009, 04:54   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
The problem my friend is not with Tata. The problem is with JLR. They haven't been doing well against the premium brands like Lexus, Merc, BMW, etc. I am talking about sales numbers and profitability guys, not emotianal arguments about JLR.
Where was I emotional? All I said was that the purchase of JLR is strategic and it would work out in the long term. Long term does not mean less than 1 year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
After spending a huge amount of money to buy JLR how does Tata plan to improve their products to compete with the other Global Luxury brands. Developing a world class luxury brand requires a lot of money. It not like developing the Sumo Grande or Vista... IF they wanted to get technology to improve their indian products, there are cheaper ways than spending billions to buy JLR outright. I wish as much as you that they are successfull, but the experience of past owners like Honda and BMW was bad..
Yes, TATA has to compete internationally in the luxury car segment and obviously the competitors are BMW,Lexus, Merc, etc. $2 billion will turn out to be a little change for TATA once they come out of this downturn, probably with a good know how to build and market cars. I still hope this is a strategic (strategic does not mean emotional ) purchase by TATA.

Last edited by gshanky : 6th February 2009 at 05:07.
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Old 6th February 2009, 05:06   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
But I don't understand what you mean by past owners like Honda and BMW. AFAIK LandRover and Jaguar were independent until Ford bought them and $2 billion will turn out to be a little change for TATA once they come out of this downturn, probably with a good know how to build and market cars. I still hope this is a strategic (strategic does not mean emotional ) purchase by TATA.
Rover and Land Rover were owned by Honda at one point and later sold to BMW. BMW sold the Rover car division to some Private Equity Firm and a Chinese manufacturer who now has a model called Rowe based on Rover. Land Rover was sold by BMW to Ford. Jaguar was an independent company. Their only original product in their line up are the Jaguar XK and XJ. All the rest are re-engineered Fords.

At this point both of us are speculating. My bet is that Tata's are going to exit/sell JRL at a loss couple of years down the line. Definitely Jaguar will be sold. They may retain LR.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 6th February 2009 at 05:07.
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Old 6th February 2009, 08:48   #24
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Let's not mix short term market changes with long term strategy, shall we ? Tata Sons do know a thing or two about the latter thats beyond most of us
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Old 6th February 2009, 20:26   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Rover and Land Rover were owned by Honda at one point and later sold to BMW. BMW sold the Rover car division to some Private Equity Firm and a Chinese manufacturer who now has a model called Rowe based on Rover. Land Rover was sold by BMW to Ford. Jaguar was an independent company. Their only original product in their line up are the Jaguar XK and XJ. All the rest are re-engineered Fords.

At this point both of us are speculating. My bet is that Tata's are going to exit/sell JRL at a loss couple of years down the line. Definitely Jaguar will be sold. They may retain LR.
Sorry about that bro. I stand corrected. I also verified that Landrover moved quite a few hands before going to ford.

TATA may or may not sell JLR and/or it may or may not be a loss. All I am saying is that TATA is going to make it worthwhile by

1) Learning superior Engine Technology
2) Learning Better Assembly Line capabilities
3) Learning how to make interiors better
4) Above all, how to operate a global luxury brand
5) Etc.

So, considering all the long term benefits, I feel that this would be a strategic venture.
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Old 7th February 2009, 00:07   #26
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Toyota seems to be in a pool of muck too...Toyota said that its operating loss will likely widen to 450 billion yen for the fiscal year ending March 31.Apparently the losses predicted in dec 2008 (150 billion yen) would its first since the WWII!!
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