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View Poll Results: Are you booking Nano?
Yes, definitely I am booking as soon as booking starts 59 16.39%
No, I am not interested 164 45.56%
I will wait and watch 137 38.06%
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Old 20th March 2009, 15:25   #121
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Thumbs down Now i dont think so i will.

was just going through all pages of Mr.Varun and his agony with tata product which makes me to rethink to buy its cars from now.
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Old 17th April 2009, 01:16   #122
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Default Why such a hoopla for NANO? Is it really revolutionary?

It was supposed to be a 1 lakh rs car which it will be for just the first 1 lakh customers and that means after regular production has started,say after an year the new price for the base model will be Rs. 1.5 lakh (on road)
, even now the 1 lakh price is EX-FACTORY, not ex-showroom, add a music system (which again is a difficult job) and add another rs.5k to the cost.

considering the fact that the base model. .which comes with Power-nothing,no ac and all drum brakes setup. the 800 std. at Rs.1.95 lakhs currently (after the discounts) is not really far away. sure it too comes without ac and power-anything but then atleast one may get disc brakes,better tyres and importantly a car that handles better. .

Further we indians are proud of travelling by own car,and there are so many 800s runing fully packed on the highway. imagine a nano loaded with people on a highway. It may very well struggle reaching 80kmph , and if at all ur caught in cross-winds,that high C of G may very well transfer the car to another lane !! 800 was already unsafe for highway, the nano might just give a new dimension to the term 'Safety on Highways' , or the lack of it.
. .
So as a cost effective SECOND car for grocery runs and ferrying the kids to school, nano makes some sense and quite alot in bumper to bumper traffic. but as a car for 'commoners' who may use it for everything , right from ferrying the relatives to and from the railway station, right upto being a highway car, nano in my opinion would not be as successful as the 800, no matter how dated the latter is.


And to say its a poor man's car, just think about it,
will a guy, in market for a fuel efficient 150cc bike be able to afford a nano? unless that 150cc bike he can afford is yamaha r15 he will certainly not be able to afford even the base nano and for those who had 1.5 lakhs to spend on a car but not 2.0 lakhs they could had very well bought a used 800 so for the common middle class. owning a car is as much a dream today like it was a month back.

My point. What has nano really done for us apart from creating a hoopla about it?. . . ..at rs.1.30 lakhs ex showroom, for base model its just 60k cheaper than the 800, but is almost 80k costlier than an average 125cc/150cc bike a middle class guy aspires to own.
Further, EMI for nano is around 2500rs. while for 800 its approx. 2700 rs. (ofcourse for larger tenure)
. .
. . Why did 800 click? Because when it was launched,the other two cars were priced more than 2.5 times than it, while the 800 do not has such a high price tag as compared to NANO.
For 1.3 lakhs.
The so called 'average middleclass' Mr.Ratan Tata spoke about can always buy a nicely maintained used 800/alto/zen/palio/santro,and spares for maruti cars atleast are as cheap as a premium indian bike

So. IMHO nano as a revolutionary car is just a Humbug.
Its just a cheaper and not necessarily better alternative to a used hatchback
. Also it is an interesting alternative for a second car for use in short commutes and other short runs.

But saying it to be a massiah for the indian middle class and that it calls for a
revolution as big or bigger than what the 800 did is a bit too far fetched.

Mr.Ratan Tata, you talked that you thought of the NANO after you saw a family of four on a scooter, and so you thought that the middleclass should leave their two wheelers for a 4 wheeler.
But, still the family you saw might not be lucky enough to afford a NANO, not until a couple of years or more, when we may start having used NANOs for sale.

So your idea as a small little city runabout is very well executed, but calling it revolutionary and for the common man of India, was a blatant lie.
For its neither a revolution (think about it,after extensive cost cutting,the base model does not even have sun-visors!) and nor it has done something great for the common middle class.


Regards.

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 17th April 2009 at 01:27. Reason: mistypes
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Old 17th April 2009, 02:26   #123
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Rural India has a surprise for tata and its nano.

Wait and watch, urbanalia may shun the Nano, the rural brethren and fringe businessmen like agents etc have a different story to tell, follow an election trail live, there are questions being asked. These buyers are illiterate, are serving or have their marginal business.

I expect rural india to pick up a lot of nanos.
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Old 17th April 2009, 02:34   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
Rural India has a surprise for tata and its nano.

Wait and watch, urbanalia may shun the Nano, the rural brethren and fringe businessmen like agents etc have a different story to tell, follow an election trail live, there are questions being asked. These buyers are illiterate, are serving or have their marginal business.

I expect rural india to pick up a lot of nanos.
Now, that sounds interesting. But then, most of the rural population (Barring those in Punjab) is quite poor and I seriously do not think it will be a runaway success in rural areas. Even if wa talk 'average income' farmers in Punjab, they are happy buying Tata Safaris.

However, on a serious note, we still don't seem to have an adequate road network in rural India and somehow I fail to understand how will a small nano do well in such conditions. Ofcourse, there is alot of excitement all over the country for the Nano but then excitement does not really always lead to sustainable demand for the product. IMHO the rural parts will still be contended and happy with Tractors and Jeeps/UV rather than this small little vehicle.



Regards.
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Old 17th April 2009, 02:37   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
It was supposed to be a 1 lakh rs car which it will be for just the first 1 lakh customers and that means after regular production has started,say after an year the new price for the base model will be Rs. 1.5 lakh (on road)
, even now the 1 lakh price is EX-FACTORY, not ex-showroom, add a music system (which again is a difficult job) and add another rs.5k to the cost.

considering the fact that the base model. .which comes with Power-nothing,no ac and all drum brakes setup. the 800 std. at Rs.1.95 lakhs currently (after the discounts) is not really far away. sure it too comes without ac and power-anything but then atleast one may get disc brakes,better tyres and importantly a car that handles better. .

Further we indians are proud of travelling by own car,and there are so many 800s runing fully packed on the highway. imagine a nano loaded with people on a highway. It may very well struggle reaching 80kmph , and if at all ur caught in cross-winds,that high C of G may very well transfer the car to another lane !! 800 was already unsafe for highway, the nano might just give a new dimension to the term 'Safety on Highways' , or the lack of it.
. .
So as a cost effective SECOND car for grocery runs and ferrying the kids to school, nano makes some sense and quite alot in bumper to bumper traffic. but as a car for 'commoners' who may use it for everything , right from ferrying the relatives to and from the railway station, right upto being a highway car, nano in my opinion would not be as successful as the 800, no matter how dated the latter is.


And to say its a poor man's car, just think about it,
will a guy, in market for a fuel efficient 150cc bike be able to afford a nano? unless that 150cc bike he can afford is yamaha r15 he will certainly not be able to afford even the base nano and for those who had 1.5 lakhs to spend on a car but not 2.0 lakhs they could had very well bought a used 800 so for the common middle class. owning a car is as much a dream today like it was a month back.

My point. What has nano really done for us apart from creating a hoopla about it?. . . ..at rs.1.30 lakhs ex showroom, for base model its just 60k cheaper than the 800, but is almost 80k costlier than an average 125cc/150cc bike a middle class guy aspires to own.
Further, EMI for nano is around 2500rs. while for 800 its approx. 2700 rs. (ofcourse for larger tenure)
. .
. . Why did 800 click? Because when it was launched,the other two cars were priced more than 2.5 times than it, while the 800 do not has such a high price tag as compared to NANO.
For 1.3 lakhs.
The so called 'average middleclass' Mr.Ratan Tata spoke about can always buy a nicely maintained used 800/alto/zen/palio/santro,and spares for maruti cars atleast are as cheap as a premium indian bike

So. IMHO nano as a revolutionary car is just a Humbug.
Its just a cheaper and not necessarily better alternative to a used hatchback
. Also it is an interesting alternative for a second car for use in short commutes and other short runs.

But saying it to be a massiah for the indian middle class and that it calls for a
revolution as big or bigger than what the 800 did is a bit too far fetched.

Mr.Ratan Tata, you talked that you thought of the NANO after you saw a family of four on a scooter, and so you thought that the middleclass should leave their two wheelers for a 4 wheeler.
But, still the family you saw might not be lucky enough to afford a NANO, not until a couple of years or more, when we may start having used NANOs for sale.

So your idea as a small little city runabout is very well executed, but calling it revolutionary and for the common man of India, was a blatant lie.
For its neither a revolution (think about it,after extensive cost cutting,the base model does not even have sun-visors!) and nor it has done something great for the common middle class.


Regards.
+1 to that. Also Maruti 800 has more boot space and cheap spares, wide servive network. You may have any spare of 800 from even the remotest place in India - wide network of company & unauthorised service centres.
Also consider the sops TATA motors are getting from the State Govt. to produce Nano in their territories. If such sops would be given to Maruti, they will definitely outperform Nano.
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Old 17th April 2009, 07:53   #126
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a good used palio will be available for 1 lac or so.(hope i dont sell mine for that much!!)
i may buy a nano maybe 30 years from now..when im probably bald and on my 18 year old(son/daughter's) birthday
im pretty sure the base model then will be more than twice its price ^ ^
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Old 17th April 2009, 08:41   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
a good used palio will be available for 1 lac or so.(hope i dont sell mine for that much!!)
i may buy a nano maybe 30 years from now..when im probably bald and on my 18 year old(son/daughter's) birthday
im pretty sure the base model then will be more than twice its price ^ ^

But just in case you change your mind regarding your Palio, you have a buyer in me here.
30 years down the line you will surely be having Fuel Cell-Nano for your teenage son/daughter
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Old 19th April 2009, 07:56   #128
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Dear BHPian if only 52 are going to book nano as per survey as per expected numbers for booking only 6-7 are going to get it (law of average). How are we going to get ownership survey from decent number of people? Very lukewarm response to a sizzling hot product (can't call it cake).
I think we are high end people are we? please help me understand.
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Old 20th April 2009, 00:51   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanagg1 View Post
Dear BHPian if only 52 are going to book nano as per survey as per expected numbers for booking only 6-7 are going to get it (law of average). How are we going to get ownership survey from decent number of people? Very lukewarm response to a sizzling hot product (can't call it cake).
I think we are high end people are we? please help me understand.
Very well said. Based on my own experience booking a Nano, it was middle class folks i saw depositing checks on the table at the dealership. Tata has got it right where it should be at.Your last sentence is most apt.

Last edited by nickatnite : 20th April 2009 at 00:52.
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Old 20th April 2009, 01:58   #130
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Dont want to sound cynical - but since my close friend was involved closely with the pitch for supplying tyres for the Nano , I have an inkling of the quality standards they had in mind. The clear mandate given to all OEM of tyres was - "Dont care if the tyres wear out at 15k mileage, get the cost of 5 tyres under 6k"
I do not know what is the issue with this as i recently bought 5 Maruti 800 145/80 Apollo Amazer XL tyres for Rs. 7500.
This in no way means that Tata is going easy on Quality with respect to tyres.Also remember i paid sales,vat , service , etc taxes , retailer commission, distributor commission etc. so i find nothing wrong with Tata asking those guys reducing the price to 6000 for a set of 5 out of which 3 are small sizes .
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Old 20th April 2009, 15:28   #131
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Dear YcBaleno,

The Nano was never a product from a charitable organization, at 1 lac the Nano sold for another 10 years, i don't think you'd explain to the Tata board as to how they'd recur their losses.
  • Despite the various factors the company had to go through, product delays, mamta aunty, inflation, the product came out at a promised price for a limited period. Nobody promised anyone that the Nano would come fully loaded at 1 lac with a full tank of petrol at your doorstep for another decade,No sir they did not, what was promised was to create a 1 lac car and that Tata did. Expecting the on road price to be the same across 28 states and 7 union territories is impossible. The only time a Cars price remains the same is when it leaves the factory gates. Let me stress again Tata is not a charitable institution, they are here to make money and make shareholders happy just like Maruti has been doing for 28+ years and other cos. as well. The only reason its been priced at 1 lac for a limited period is because a promise was made prior to circumstances that was unforeseeable both politically and economically.
  • For a person buying a car at 1.3 lacs it is dumb, ignorant and very naive to assume another 60k is not that far away, It bloody well is, Its almost 50% more. How would it sound when somebody advices a Swift buyer, 'Arey why did u spend 6 lacs on the road for this yaaar!!!, for just another 3 lacs you could have got a Honda City'. The 800 is a whole lot more expensive than a Nano any which way you take it, Period. And if you claim a family on a Scooter cant afford a Nano cos its 30k away from 1 lac, how the hell will they afford an 800 which is nearly 2 lacs!!!
  • Similarly, computing a 100% loan for 1.3 lacs for a tenure of 5 years (the max. for almost all fin. cos., especially taking into account customer profile), the monthly installment comes to Rs. 2166, and in the case of an 800, even if one assumes a loan of 1.9 lacs the instalment would come to Rs. 3166, the increase is Rs. 1000 every month. Which is huge for somebody buying the cheapest car in the market through a loan. This is again without taking the interest into account which would make the difference larger. I have absolutely no idea from where you came up with the fact that for another Rs.200 to the monthly installment one can get an 800.
  • The Nano doesn't come with a Music system, well neither does the 800.
  • The Nano caught in cross winds would do way better than a family on two wheels or even an Omini that has been plying on Indian roads, highways and what not, for more than quarter of a century. The Nano is way safer on the highway than either of these options.
  • The Nano is way safer than the 800 any day, which is not saying much considering that the Nano is a new product and the 800 is almost 3 decades old and was designed in an era safety was a negligible factor. The only reason that Maruti can still keep selling the likes of 800/Omini is because the Indian Govt. is still fussy about putting any kind of modern Crash safety regulations in place. The very moment this happens 800/Omini will be phased out making the closest competitor another 1 lac away, which according to you is 'not much'.
  • The 800 does have a more powerful engine than the Nano, Agreed. But not much considering the car costs 50% more. The 800 only produces 10.8% more power (37bhp & 33bhp respectively) and 18.6% more torque (59 Nm vs 48 Nm). But do consider that 800 is 12.7% more heavier than the Nano (665 kgs vs 580 kgs), So if you take the power to weight ratio into account (800-665kgs/37bhp vs Nano- 580kgs/33bhp) the 800 only pips it by a mere 2.6%. So for the 50% increase in price you are getting a 2.6% increase in actual power. How the above said calculations reflect in real life is questionable but one can easily assume that the Nano has enough power to go about daily chores similarly to the 800 has done for all these years.
  • The Nano is more fuel efficient than the 800. Yes it will have higher running costs than a bike, but can you name me a car that doesn't. How does one come to the conclusion that the 800 is easily affordable to a two wheeling family but not a Nano. Of course by the virtue of being in the market all these years 800 has cheap spares but do you have any idea what the Nano's spares cost before coming to a conclusion?? Again, the Nano is more fuel efficient than the 800.
  • Oh yes at the said 1.3 lacs this is by far the best looking car you can buy.
Part 2, as to why the Nano is Revolutionary,
  1. In more than 60 years since our independence no commercial Indian engineering product has garnered the international attention and respect the way this small car has. This comes from a company that started making small cars 10 years ago. The country's largest car maker has been in the business for 28 years and still lives under the shadow of its mid ranking Japanese parent. Ask anyone outside our borders about a car maker called Maruti and you'd get bewildered looks.
  2. The genius in the product does not lie in its technology, Mr Ratan Tata never proclaimed he'll create a Prius, he said he'll create a car at Rs.1 lac, everyone said its impossible, Well he did not get the car at everyone's door step fully loaded at Rs.1 lac but neither did any of the other car companies.
  3. This is a complete car for the price, In India the only automobile that was available at that price was an autorickshaw.
  4. This car is a brand new model, not old and priced by the virtue of being mass manufactured for decades. No other car manufacturer has been able to create a new car at this price and so far none of the others have thrown their hat into the ring, even the Chinese. The Bajaj/Renault project has already said that they cant aim for the 1 lac tag.
  5. This car has highlighted the skills of Indian engineering globally. Name me one other Indian automotive product that has done the same.
The M800 is a brilliant product, like many others it was our first family car as well. Strangely the wheel hasn't rolled much since then till the Nano came along. The M800 is still being sold due to a lax in Govt. safety regulations and the lack of any serious competition. Id love to see its sales figures in the next couple of years.
Wether a second hand car is better is as futile as a debate as comparing a new Swift to a second hand Honda Vtec.
One has to think from the perspective of a first time car buyer who is looking to buy a brand new car. Trust me there are lacs of them out there, and the Nano is exactly what they have been waiting for all this time.

Theres nothing personal here YcBaleno. But cant agree with the point that the Nano is to shrugged away as a poor competitor to an 800. Its set a bencmark for other carmakers to follow.

kindest regards
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Old 20th April 2009, 15:47   #132
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Fantastic post shortbread. Very well put.

To me NANO product philosophy follows the principles of "fortune at the bottom of the pyramid" where TATA has tried to create a product that will serve the masses at the bottom of economic pyramid and at the same time generating profit for the company.

regards
tifosi.
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Old 20th April 2009, 15:51   #133
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Without quoting entire post here, +1 to what shortbread said. It would have been hard to put down thoughts any better than this (and hard to type as well).

I'll not buy Nano in near future (certainly till Nano new v2 is launched), but it's great business idea.

Ratan Tata is doing to automobiles what Bill Gates did to computers 25 years back, i.e. small profit, huge volume. (800 and few others already did this, but Nano will surpass that by big margin in most likelihood).

Last edited by RX135 : 20th April 2009 at 15:54.
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Old 20th April 2009, 15:53   #134
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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Dear YcBaleno,

The Nano was never a product from a charitable organization, at 1 lac the Nano sold for another 10 years, i don't think you'd explain to the Tata board as to how they'd recur their losses.
..................................
Theres nothing personal here YcBaleno. But cant agree with the point that the Nano is to shrugged away as a poor competitor to an 800. Its set a bencmark for other carmakers to follow.

kindest regards
Well researched and well said. Thanks for the excellent post

Last edited by enzo10 : 20th April 2009 at 16:07.
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Old 20th April 2009, 18:06   #135
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Brilliant post Shortbread. And I fail to understand why such a big deal is being made of the sops given to the Nano. What we forget is that for most of its life, MSIL was owned by the GoI which pretty much manipulated policy to favour MUL as it was known then.
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