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Old 17th February 2009, 23:14   #76
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Xylo will appeal to the taxi segment, as its popularity grows among taxi folk, other little interested beings would shy away, as not many would want to be stopped at almost every check point by the men in khakhi!
So, Xylo will act as a shot of "Xylocaine" & numb the already little amused senses!
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Old 18th February 2009, 08:46   #77
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes i do agree that toyotas make very reliable cars. but i feel this toyota reliabilty is hyped up a lot too.
Good point. There does not seem reason to believe that M&M trails far behind Toyota in terms of just the engine reliability aspect.
However, I think the difference will probably be more pronounced in the longevity of each? If the Xylo holds up well for about 4 years and 250,000 kms, it'll be a winner. After all the difference in first cost is huge.
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Old 18th February 2009, 12:04   #78
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes i do agree that toyotas make very reliable cars. but i feel this toyota reliabilty is hyped up a lot too. i too own a toyota innova & i have faced minor issues in my innova too. similarly i have seen minor issues in the scorpio too. but the difference is in the cost of repairs/maintainence/servicing between toyota & mahindra. infact even mahindras enjoy a good resale value, especially the bolero & scorpio, so i assume the xylo to continue the tradition!
i dont think mahindras suffer from engine problems whatsoever, all the issues are mainly electrical.
Buddy I am not talking who is more VFM and Reliable in reality its all about perception by majority, Brand value means perception by consumer and willingness to pay for it.
Suppose if every one today thinks that Toyota reliability is hyped up then that would amount to drop in Toyota brand value and they need to drop prices to level of M&M but that is not the case.
Quite possible that M&M makes relaiable products and more and more customers feel like you and then may be after 5 years M&M and build the kind of brand value which Toyota has today and at that time resale value will increase but as of today Toyota commands that premium.

Actually brands and thier value is temporal and varies with geography it's entierly a different topic so won't eloberate here.
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Old 18th February 2009, 14:25   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Good point. There does not seem reason to believe that M&M trails far behind Toyota in terms of just the engine reliability aspect.
However, I think the difference will probably be more pronounced in the longevity of each? If the Xylo holds up well for about 4 years and 250,000 kms, it'll be a winner. After all the difference in first cost is huge.
most cars barring a few exception, if driven and maintained well will serve well for a long time.
i see many M800s more than 10-15 years old still on road and doing well too !! obviously they dont have a honda or toyota badge..
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Old 18th February 2009, 15:32   #80
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Buddy I am not talking who is more VFM and Reliable in reality its all about perception by majority, Brand value means perception by consumer and willingness to pay for it.
Suppose if every one today thinks that Toyota reliability is hyped up then that would amount to drop in Toyota brand value and they need to drop prices to level of M&M but that is not the case.
Quite possible that M&M makes relaiable products and more and more customers feel like you and then may be after 5 years M&M and build the kind of brand value which Toyota has today and at that time resale value will increase but as of today Toyota commands that premium.

Actually brands and thier value is temporal and varies with geography it's entierly a different topic so won't eloberate here.
I agree. Having driven an Innova, the Toyota comes around as a more qualitative produt. Its refined and feels almost car-like - able to mask its weight and lenght wonderfully well. The interiors especially the touch points - the steering wheel, gear knob, door / grab handles, rotary switches have a tactile feel to them.
Took a TD of the Xylo the other day. It just doesnt seem to be upto the mark when it comes to interior plastics and engine refinement. Actually the quality of the plastics suck big time.
But a ~2 lakh feature to feature price difference between the two is a toast to Mahindra's frugal engineering skills. The Japs are going overboard with their Quality-Value equation here. I would have liked Mahindra to spend an extra 1 lakh on the Xylo, give better quality plastics and better NVH levels and still show a 1 lakh deficit to a similarly priced Innova.
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Old 18th February 2009, 17:08   #81
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Today sat in TD of Xylo, it has got good pickup and good ride. It has same or more space than Innova and 3rd row seats are better than Innova.

But it rides like boat similar to Scorpio but ride quality is very good, outside sound is almost ZERO, I felt like I am travelling in Petrol car. I am really impressed about it in this NVH levels which I found its better than Innova. Fit and finish better than Scorpio and Safari but few years needed still to reach better quality in plastics and interiors.

Innova score more in quality, refinement, high speed performance, looks, fit and fnish, peace of mind.

Xylo is best in VFM, space, lot of features except safety (abs/airbag/sudden braking), NVH levels.

Ravi.
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Old 18th February 2009, 20:40   #82
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Just look around and how many base variants of Innova you can spot?

Most Innova sales happen in the high end variants. Yes Xylo has space and VFM. But the looks, really hard to digest. We all see the top end E8 variant in the showroom display. I saw an E@ variant today. OMG it looks really terrible to say the least

And I pity Mahindra for inducing so much pre launch hype for such a pathetic looking car.
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Old 18th February 2009, 21:10   #83
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Thumbs down .."i dont think mahindras suffer from engine problems whatsoever"

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes i do agree that toyotas make very reliable cars. but i feel this toyota reliabilty is hyped up a lot too. i too own a toyota innova & i have faced minor issues in my innova too. similarly i have seen minor issues in the scorpio too. but the difference is in the cost of repairs/maintainence/servicing between toyota & mahindra. infact even mahindras enjoy a good resale value, especially the bolero & scorpio, so i assume the xylo to continue the tradition!
i dont think mahindras suffer from engine problems whatsoever, all the issues are mainly electrical.

Raj_5004 stated that Mahindas don't suffer from Engine Problems , while I have Noticed Otherwise particularly WRT Engines of Mahindra Jeeps

1. Notice Brand New Scorpios , Boleros You will find their Engines running Quite smoothly & Perfectly

2. Then Notice 2-3 Year Old Scorpios & Boleros You will find their BODY MUCH LESS INTACT,, Vibrations much Increased & Engine Struggling More for Pulling the Vehicle

3. Much More Engine noise , & that too of all Sorts ,,,, this Indicates that Not Only The Liner, Rings have suffered much wear ,,but also lot of Play comes between Crank shaft & Connecting rod plus other Tolerances have Increased

4. It seems AVL has transferred them the DESIGN & MANUFACTURING SPECS to Mahindra ,,but has Not disclosed them the Manufacturing Procudure/Technique and the Metallurgies involved (or they themselves may not be perfect in that).
Manufacturing Procudure/Technique and the Metallurgy plays a MAJOR role in Longevity & Sustained Power delivery by Engine for years to come, and this is something which Lacks in Mahindra ,Kinetic & Bajaj products
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Old 18th February 2009, 22:58   #84
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Originally Posted by Lightning2 View Post
Raj_5004 stated that Mahindas don't suffer from Engine Problems , while I have Noticed Otherwise particularly WRT Engines of Mahindra Jeeps
i respect your opinion but what i stated was from my own personal experience.

i have 4 scorpios- 2003 non-CRDe (1,90,000 kms), 2005 CRDe (1,05,000 kms), 2007 M2di (95,000 kms) & 2008 mHawk (15,000 kms).

lets forget the mHawk as its still new but the rest 3 scorpios are running fine without any engine/drivetrain problems whatsoever. all issues are mainly electrical.

regerding engine noise, my 2005 innova (38,000 kms) was dead silent when it was new but now it makes more noise than my CRDe scorpio, forget the mHawk! many diesel engines have this attribute, not just mahindras.
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Old 18th February 2009, 23:23   #85
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also, i have not experienced any of my scorpios 'struggling' to pull the vehicle. infact on a recent trip to UP, i saw this old mahindra jeep loaded with 18 people & some sacks on the roof cruising at 70 kmph on the highway.
pulling power is one asset every mahindra engine carries for its lifetime, thats what i feel.
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Old 19th February 2009, 01:19   #86
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Smile ...regarding Engine quality of Mahindra,Bajaj,Kinetic vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
also, i have not experienced any of my scorpios 'struggling' to pull the vehicle. infact on a recent trip to UP, i saw this old mahindra jeep loaded with 18 people & some sacks on the roof cruising at 70 kmph on the highway.
pulling power is one asset every mahindra engine carries for its lifetime, thats what i feel.
Hi Raj
Okay so there is some contradiction between my observations and ur Ownership experience

I suppose u have maintained ur Mahindra vehicles exceedingly well

But almost daily I come accross little Older Mahindra, Bajaj & Kinetic vehicles performing badly

I have come across many people complainig of Kinetic 2 wheelers giving way on Piston & Liner front. ( anyone can notice large no. of kinetics emitting Blue smoke)

Bajaj's are Notorious for High Power Initial performane but Short Life 2 wheelers.
Even Bike guru Dilip Bam has observed so

In old model Commander Jeeps too Grinding noise can be heard during engine starting.
In Logan they have installed Engine of Failed european company Dacia ,,while they claim the Engine as that of Renault!! (although Renault itself is a poor performer)

Xylo build quality is even worse to Scorpio
Mahindra has overtaken Kinetic motors & will be selling their 2 wheelers soon

Going by above Co-relations and observation it is clear that Mahindra top management is NOT prioritizing Technology instead they are more interested in winning thru VANITY practices.

Their After sales is also not upto the mark ( like say maruti, hyundai,tata) inspite of being in Automobiles since decades!!

Look at Suzuki (expert in small Engines), Honda (master of VVT) , Hyundai ,Mercedes (master of V-12 configuration) They Bet on their Engines.

for XYLO instead of just "Re-naming" engines m-Hawk ,m-Eagle etc etc they could have done more. Even the looks & Dynamics of Xylo are worse to Scorpio ( it being too high compared to Width). The front grille & face itself is not Attractive
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Old 19th February 2009, 08:29   #87
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Once I saw the Tata Sumo Spacio with 34 (+- a few as it is sometime before; I can't recollect the actual number) people on board and driver could roll the vehicle in second gear! In fact Overdrive tried doing the same and they managed it without any issues in second gear! Not bad?
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Old 19th February 2009, 08:57   #88
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M&M for years has been known for their rugged engines. I have had the opportunity myself to own two scorpios and never once in last 4 years+ had any engine problem!!
Kindly see the VFM equation in the right perspective! If I want to go for another car in my family, I would definitely consider an Xylo for its cost and M&M service back up anywhere in the country!
I use my cousin's Innova for long trips along with my Scorp. I have driven it for more than 10000+ kms till date and find it good too. But would I pay 1.5 to 2 lacs more to just enjoy the plastics-my answer is NO!!
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Old 19th February 2009, 09:36   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning2 View Post
while I have Noticed Otherwise particularly WRT Engines of Mahindra Jeeps

2. Then Notice 2-3 Year Old Scorpios & Boleros You will find their BODY MUCH LESS INTACT,, Vibrations much Increased & Engine Struggling More for Pulling the Vehicle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning2 View Post
Okay so there is some contradiction between my observations and ur Ownership experience
Lightning2, you seem to have released some blanket statements there!
Just for fun?
Market figures and owner endorsements belie your 'astute' observations!
The sheer VOLUME of historical evidence is in stark contrast to what you seem to believe.
Surely there are friends that own a Scorpio or a Bolero. Why not take a test drive in one which has respectable mileage on the odo?!
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Old 19th February 2009, 09:48   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Lightning2, you seem to have released some blanket statements there!
Just for fun?
Market figures and owner endorsements belie your 'astute' observations!
The sheer VOLUME of historical evidence is in stark contrast to what you seem to believe.
Surely there are friends that own a Scorpio or a Bolero. Why not take a test drive in one which has respectable mileage on the odo?!
How is this relevant? He has given his observations on a public forum - may not be easily digestable but they are his observations all the same. And owner "endorsements" are just that, wouldn't you agree - applies for all vehicles, uniformly
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