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Old 19th February 2009, 09:54   #91
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And owner "endorsements" are just that, wouldn't you agree - applies for all vehicles, uniformly
Very much so! And coupled to what the market says, it begins to get some weight.
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Old 19th February 2009, 10:36   #92
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Talking about reliability, I myself using a Bolero for almost 9 years now, and never had a reliability problem. In my hometown, my parents are using Mahindra Jeeps (4x4) from the 80s and I grown up seeing those throughout my life, when we sell one, we buy another Mahindra jeep, not any other vehicle. We had a trax for a short duration, overall the vehicle was good in terms of ride comfort compared to a Mahindra jeep, but was not as rugged as Mahindra jeep. These jeeps do all kind or terrains in the hills, forest, in slush and I doubt any other vehicle can cope with that kind of torture. What we see in the OTR sections in this forum, they do almost throughout the year. They hardly see a workshop(that saves money), it is taken to a workshop only when it is almost in pieces. In the hilly regions of the southern states, you see mostly Mahindra jeeps, not any other vehicle, I need not explain the reason. Many of these people's livelihood depends on these Jeeps, they keep it as a basic necessity, and it is economical to maintain. You will see some of them running on tractor's front tyres. (Tractor front tyres are very cheap compared to a normal jeep tyre). Now no price for guessing why they are No.1 in MUVs
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Old 19th February 2009, 10:59   #93
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Originally Posted by Lightning2 View Post
Hi Raj

In Logan they have installed Engine of Failed european company Dacia ,,while they claim the Engine as that of Renault!! (although Renault itself is a poor performer)
I think we are missing something here.
Dacia is a East european car manufacturer and as is the case with any east european car manufacturer (e.g. Lada, Skoda) they lacked in technical progress. Subsequently they were taken over by Renault - as is the case with Skoda when they were taken over by VW.
The Logan is based on the same platform as the third generation Renault Clio and current generation Nissan Micra. The engines in the current Logan are those of Renualt. And Renault have had an illustrious phase in F1 to prove their technological prowess.
Sorry guys this was .
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Old 19th February 2009, 14:01   #94
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Today I sat TD of top end 7 seator light blue Innova Diesel. Innova in any type of driving is well planted on the road, on the same hand XYLO do dancing little bit.

Innova has better seat positions except for 3rd row seats. But over all XYLO is bit more spacious than Innova.

Lookwise Innova is way better than XYLO.

When we brake XYLO used to make style of kissing front and then stop while Innova used to stop without any tilting feeling. The way seats, steering, interior is designed in Innova its worth 3 lacs extra If we need to pay Innova over XYLO.

Feature wise XYLO has lot of things while Innova not much but cup holders, auto AC, stereo, reverse cam and few more.

Engine noise levels I liked XYLO to be very honest.

XYLO is VFM product while Innova is luxury one!

Regards,

Ravi.
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Old 19th February 2009, 14:40   #95
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Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
Feature wise XYLO has lot of things while Innova not much but cup holders, auto AC, stereo, reverse cam and few more.

Engine noise levels I liked XYLO to be very honest.

XYLO is VFM product while Innova is luxury one!
It may more like Brand Factor. Like if you go to shop any item even cloth shop keeper always try to convince saying that it is imported item.
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Old 19th February 2009, 17:09   #96
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Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
Talking about reliability, I myself using a Bolero for almost 9 years now, and never had a reliability problem. In my hometown, my parents are using Mahindra Jeeps (4x4) from the 80s and I grown up seeing those throughout my life,
Sir Mahindra JEEPs and later MM540 and 550 were actually licensed produced based on Chrysler product it was an extreamly successful design of WWII vintage so comparing Jeep robustness as proof of robustness of any Mahindra developed product ( Xylo) is not good assumption.

BTW JEEPS score quite low on reliability front when compared with other modern vehicles so if that is the bechmark I am sure Xylo will cross it any day

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Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
it is taken to a workshop only when it is almost in pieces. In the hilly regions of the southern states, you see mostly Mahindra jeeps, not any other vehicle, I need not explain the reason.
It may be Off topic here but It is not that these people are so pleased with reliability that they don't want to buy anything else the fact is there is no decent basic 4X4 available at a budget in Indian market. The 4x4 MM 540/550 are not being sold any more to civilian market but as there is no basic design change in last 5 decades or so people are happy buying 2 decade old or army disposal vehicles and restoring them.

The next avaiable 4x4 is Bolero and trax Gurkha at above 8 Lakhs all other are above 11 Lakh range which is out of budget for most people who actually need 4x4 workhorse.

As the supply is so low an old JEEP which would have been otherwise sent to junkyard becomes a priced possession.
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Old 19th February 2009, 17:26   #97
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Sorry, for causing the confusion, what I meant is the mm540, 550, the CJ series etc. Not the original JEEPS.
About Xylo reliability, we have to wait and see, but the track record of Mahindra designed vehicles (scorpio) are good.

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Sir Mahindra JEEPs and later MM540 and 550 were actually licensed produced based on Chrysler product it was an extreamly successful design of WWII vintage so comparing Jeep robustness as proof of robustness of any Mahindra developed product ( Xylo) is not good assumption.

BTW JEEPS score quite low on reliability front when compared with other modern vehicles so if that is the bechmark I am sure Xylo will cross it any day



It may be Off topic here but It is not that these people are so pleased with reliability that they don't want to buy anything else the fact is there is no decent basic 4X4 available at a budget in Indian market. The 4x4 MM 540/550 are not being sold any more to civilian market but as there is no basic design change in last 5 decades or so people are happy buying 2 decade old or army disposal vehicles and restoring them.

The next avaiable 4x4 is Bolero and trax Gurkha at above 8 Lakhs all other are above 11 Lakh range which is out of budget for most people who actually need 4x4 workhorse.

As the supply is so low an old JEEP which would have been otherwise sent to junkyard becomes a priced possession.
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Old 19th February 2009, 17:43   #98
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Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
Sorry, for causing the confusion, what I meant is the mm540, 550, the CJ series etc. Not the original JEEPS.
About Xylo reliability, we have to wait and see, but the track record of Mahindra designed vehicles (scorpio) are good.
Please refere to various Jeep threads for pedigree. MM540 and MM550 were used for exactly same Chrysler designed product which was sold under brand name JEEP , Once license from Chrysler expired M&M had to remove JEEP logo , Earlier CJ series was in same catagory.

Original Jeep sold as Willy's was a petrol engine M&M roped in International tractors diesel engine in 70s and Peugeot XDP engine later in MM540 mechanicals are were same as before. None of the MM540 / Mm 550 or CJ can be considered reliable if you count overheating and parts failure as unreliability and I am sure Xylo can exceed easily if this is the expectation.

Anything being good or bad is comparative if old M&M kind of vehicles is criteria Xylo is definately reliable but here benchmark is toyota innova.

Scorpio beeing good is also subjective and comparative,
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Old 19th February 2009, 17:49   #99
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Anything being good or bad is comparative if old M&M kind of vehicles is criteria Xylo is definately reliable but here benchmark is toyota innova.

Scorpio beeing good is also subjective and comparative,
I would agree with this. The benchmark is Toyota! It takes decades, and million of miles clocked in many countries under vastly varying conditions for such a benchmark to evolve!
Let us not kid ourselves that M&M is anywhere in that esoteric zone!
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Old 19th February 2009, 18:09   #100
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Let me leave it there. I mentioned my own experience with Mahindra MMs, CJs etc and for 20+ years we are repeat customer due to these reasons, i.reliability, suitable for a particular terrain and rough usage (to transfer farm materials to and fro) and low maintenance cost. For me there is no point in getting into their pedigree, end of the day it serves the purpose, period. Some one mentioned earlier the reliability of these jeep's and I narrated my own experience, that is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Please refere to various Jeep threads for pedigree. MM540 and MM550 were used for exactly same Chrysler designed product which was sold under brand name JEEP , Once license from Chrysler expired M&M had to remove JEEP logo , Earlier CJ series was in same catagory.

Original Jeep sold as Willy's was a petrol engine M&M roped in International tractors diesel engine in 70s and Peugeot XDP engine later in MM540 mechanicals are were same as before. None of the MM540 / Mm 550 or CJ can be considered reliable if you count overheating and parts failure as unreliability and I am sure Xylo can exceed easily if this is the expectation.

Anything being good or bad is comparative if old M&M kind of vehicles is criteria Xylo is definately reliable but here benchmark is toyota innova.

Scorpio beeing good is also subjective and comparative,
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Old 24th February 2009, 17:30   #101
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From the looks perspective, with those rounded edges, Xylo is more competition to Sumo Grande than Innova.
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Old 9th March 2009, 11:59   #102
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Number comparisons on paper do nothing to indicate the Innova's real strengths i.e. Quality, reliability, durability & great road manners. The Xylo can only dream of matching the Innova on these parameters. Not to say that the Xylo is bad, it is a well-priced MUV that will surely taste success with price sensitive customers & Mahindra's distribution strength.

..........These UVs are made up of anywhere between 7,000 - 10,000 parts. It is safe to assume that the quality of 99% of the Innovas parts are superior to that in the Xylo. And nope, I am not talking stuff that we notice in a test-drive (paint finish, interior plastics etc.). This is the stuff you do NOT see but are working under the hood (components related to the engine, transmission etc. etc.).

Whenever I put my Indigo up on a ramp, I see why she is priced so damn cheap.
Nothing embodies this statement more than the following picture. When was the last time you saw a brand new Innova being attended to by Toyota's roadside assistance?
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Innova V/S Xylo-moto_0442.jpg  

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Old 9th March 2009, 14:30   #103
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Nothing embodies this statement more than the following picture. When was the last time you saw a brand new Innova being attended to by Toyota's roadside assistance?
We cant conclude anything from this as we dont know what the problem is. This might even be that he has exhausted the fuel, causing the fuel lines to be filled with air in which case you have to pump it out.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 9th March 2009 at 14:32.
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Old 9th March 2009, 14:46   #104
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After reading a lot on internet and automagazines, I can say that Innova is better than Xylo.
Reason are :

1) Forget Airbags, even ABS is not there. Xylo is heavier than Innova, the dynamics are not as sorted out as Innova and still it is not having ABS, which in case of Xylo is a necessity rather than luxury.

2) Handling. Surley they could have made it better. They knew they had to compete with Innova and sedans that offer better handling. They also had sufficient time to sort this out.

3) High mounted engine. The engine just like Scorpio is high mounted, and the engine is not light. This could have been better. And also the engine, though offering quite fast performance and FE for the weight and size and aerodynamics of car, is basically a tractor derived motor ( as it based on 2.6 Scorpio mill that was derived from tractor ). Why not the 2.2 without detuning ?

Xylo is a nice machine, but I wonder what the designers thought when they were trying to design it. It can neither be called SUV nor the MPV.

Overall, I think Innova is light years ahead of Xylo and Xylo shares a lot of things with Bolero, which is not a good thing. I was expecting an all new design that had less flaws.

The only flaw with Innova is its on the higher side in price department, and the slightly weak engine. Just give us the Indonasia ECU mapping that will allow the engine to make 26 kgm. Will be enough then.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 9th March 2009 at 14:47.
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Old 9th March 2009, 14:48   #105
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
After reading a lot on internet and automagazines, I can say that Innova is better than Xylo.
LOL, Aggo, without reading a lot or browsing the www, I can say that the Innova is better by a long shot!

Value for money? Well, I'd rather reserve my comments. It means different things to different folk!

Last edited by anupmathur : 9th March 2009 at 14:49.
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