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Old 26th April 2010, 10:44   #76
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Yes, the average Indian car buyer is not only too tolerant but also is emotionally weak and is exploited by the sales staff to the fullest.

I have umpteen instances where I have gone with a buyer to do a PDI and the sales person has refused a road test/ramp/underbody check/beading removal check/tire brand change... the list goes on and on and the most surprising part is, that since the buyer is quite charged up, he agrees to the salesman's usual dialogues:

Any issues discovered: " We will fix it at the first service Saar"

PDI hurdles: "I m there Sir, why do you worry, just take the car and go Saar"

And more often than not, the buyer agrees to it and views me as his "Pyaar ka dushman" doing "emotional atyachaar" on him.
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Old 26th April 2010, 12:22   #77
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And more often than not, the buyer agrees to it and views me as his "Pyaar ka dushman" doing "emotional atyachaar" on him.
Such buyers deserve to get the lemons.
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Old 26th April 2010, 15:32   #78
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The truth is .. we are subdued from the beginning. from early childhoods. We are told about having faith in unknown/unseen things. We are made to respect older than us people. We are asked to hide from notorious/rowdy elements. This running has become a part of life and look for safezone has crept into the spine.

After one assumes adulthood, it worsens with economic and social instability. Everyone knows that fear controls almost everybody. The employers and govt regulations will inject the fear systematically. They ensure that a person should not be paid more than to buy cheap entertainment and grocery for 2 square meals. because if a person get more money then he/she wont turn towards office for sometime/ permanently. So the person will keep working all life, consoling this anger, dreams and fear every second. there is no time left for him to fight a court case, and some people who do fight at court are either balancing their work timing very well or they will be super citizens / elite crowd.

the matter has turned so worst that, friends and family are no longer trustable as they have their own priorities. So who will accompany you for fight with longtime influencial notorious crooks.

It better to putup with it .. and go on with life. Join yoga or laughing club.. watch a movie or booze. Try to forget some one had cheated you while buying a car or while servicing a car..

Because the fighting spirit was killed by our mentors and gaurdians in the initial stage itself. Now you are a educated guy, only work and let the non-educated guys run the country. And let the notorious crook have their laugh and money..

Last edited by four_tire : 26th April 2010 at 15:35.
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Old 26th April 2010, 20:56   #79
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Originally Posted by four_tire View Post
The truth is .. we are subdued from the beginning. from early childhoods. We are told about having faith in unknown/unseen things. We are made to respect older than us people. We are asked to hide from notorious/rowdy elements. This running has become a part of life and look for safezone has crept into the spine.

After one assumes adulthood, it worsens with economic and social instability. Everyone knows that fear controls almost everybody. The employers and govt regulations will inject the fear systematically. They ensure that a person should not be paid more than to buy cheap entertainment and grocery for 2 square meals. because if a person get more money then he/she wont turn towards office for sometime/ permanently. So the person will keep working all life, consoling this anger, dreams and fear every second. there is no time left for him to fight a court case, and some people who do fight at court are either balancing their work timing very well or they will be super citizens / elite crowd.

the matter has turned so worst that, friends and family are no longer trustable as they have their own priorities. So who will accompany you for fight with longtime influencial notorious crooks.

It better to putup with it .. and go on with life. Join yoga or laughing club.. watch a movie or booze. Try to forget some one had cheated you while buying a car or while servicing a car..

Because the fighting spirit was killed by our mentors and gaurdians in the initial stage itself. Now you are a educated guy, only work and let the non-educated guys run the country. And let the notorious crook have their laugh and money..
Very nicely put mate. Always nice to read a fresh perspective on things. Thanks!
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Old 26th April 2010, 21:19   #80
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"Yup my car has run 1000kms without any problem. There is just a slight rattle from the door. All in all a great experience." So here we have a gentleman, whose brand new car's door rattles, but he calls it good experience.

"Then there are some other posts like. Well there are few niggles, there are a few part failures, but when you buy brand XXX, you got to live with it. After all these are small thing compared to the wonderful power and handling." Ok wait a minute. Somebody spends their years salary on a car, and he should not complain because it handles well?

And then there are posts which really take the cake. "Well my car is doing really well. Its very very reliable. I don't know why people say the reliability is below average. Look at me I have had minor problems. AC failure around 1000kms, Some clutch failure at 7000kms, some ECU issues around 10000, but all sorted under warranty. I have broken down just twice in these 10000kms and the service people always rescue me. I am very happy with my very reliable daily driver"
In a way, the above comments are an effort to self-gratify one's purchase decision. People tend to overlook these niggling issues and instead look at the niceties the car offers, only to convince themselves that they bought the right car. And in THAT process, they become tolerant to Mfrs selling them sub-standard products and shoddy after sales service.

On an other note, The car manufacturers have kept us that way. They make us think of 'necessities' as 'luxuries'. For instance, Every manufacturer boasts of 'not compromising with safety', but if thats the case, why have variants without ABS & Airbags? or for that matter why have cars that dont offer ABS & Airbags even for an additional cost? Is my safety directly proportional to my affordability? Luxury can be so, but not safety, isn't it?
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:41   #81
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Yes because we are still getting used to buying cars as thanks to the government who made us stay away from cars because of the stupid policy.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:47   #82
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In one way this thread is an eye-opener for me. I was/am under the impression that only Tata cars have quality and reliability issues, and that Maruti and Hyundai cars are rock-solid-reliable. Is that not the case?

I mean, I faced two major issues with my Indica Xeta in the last 2.5 years:
1. Temperature sensor issues
2. Starter motor issues

As tsk said, I "just cannot accept" these issues happening just because the car cost me only Rs.3.1 lakh on-road. But there's not a great deal I think I can do, except change my car. I am on the verge of changing to a Maruti or Hyundai for that "complete peace of mind" factor (Swift is what I have in mind ).

Am I headed in the wrong direction? Are Maruti & Hyundai in the same boat too, except that their customers smile and decide to "adjust"? If that is the best available, I might as well "adjust" with my Xeta instead of "adjust"ing with a Swift after paying huge money.
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Old 27th April 2010, 15:06   #83
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Are Maruti & Hyundai in the same boat too, except that their customers smile and decide to "adjust"?
From my personal experience of owning a Santro Xing for 4 years, which has done 33500 KMs (I was outside India for 3 years during this time and my wife used to take it for city drives) I never had any problem with the car. I've taken it to many long drives, usually ranging from 385 to 675 KMs. The only problem I ever had was a puncture and that too, inside my office premises (lucky me). This is only my experience and I will not vouch for all the Santros out there.
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Old 27th April 2010, 15:54   #84
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Hey on the topic of being tolerant. What about bikes? What would you guys have to say about the great Royal Enfield ? They've been taking customers for a Royal Ride by selling unreliable and shoddily built bikes , but people still continue to buy REs, I hear even the new classic is atrocious esp. from those who have had it for a few months!

Here's a video highlighting RE's processes at the factory and what advanced processes they employ to make a cult bike



Not only people do continue to buy junk from RE, but also continue to have clubs, associations and what not to defend their shoddy purchase! And they will NEVER tolerate anything said against their 'steed'.

Last edited by techn0l0gist : 27th April 2010 at 15:56.
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Old 27th April 2010, 16:10   #85
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Talking about brands is a little off topic, but it does bring out another aspect of tolerance. Thanks for bringing it up.
There are some cult brands, whose followers will defend all flaws. Now you have fanboys for every brand(pardon my use of the term), but some brands tend to attract fans in higher numbers.
Lets list a few such brands
1. Fiat - Yes, they gave a hatch which did not fall apart on the roads. But the service network failed the users. Yet you have discussion forums praising the car. Fans will tolerate a lot more than the average consumer. And sales speak for it
2. Royal Enfield - Royal Enfield debates can cause nuclear wars. Thankfully as a car forum, we are mostly immune, but one visit to popular biking forums will reveal all
3. Tata - This attracts the patriot Fanboy. A post deriding the company product will be met with tonnes of data supporting the greatness of companies founders, and its ability to take their car to the European market.

But sadly for the consumer, in the end it does not matter. Even if their car is first to be driven on the moon, if it has to visit service center for unscheduled visits, its the persons money. No share from revenue of moon attempt will be given to the current owners.

So apart from tolerance, the other angle to this "accept all problems" equation is "Hero worship" of the company.
But as any owner of a religious institution will tell you, worshiping results in only money for the institution, there is no material gain for the worshiper. So unless the cars actually start having a soul which can be saved, its better to be logical, than emotional
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Old 27th April 2010, 17:02   #86
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So apart from tolerance, the other angle to this "accept all problems" equation is "Hero worship" of the company.
Now that we are going off topic, let me delve a bit into psychology to explain terms like "Fanboy" and "Hero Worship".

"Hero Worship" is primarily due to the posessive nature of Indians at large. Agreed that some of us are more posessive than others but we all are, to one extent or the other. Add to it the fact that we are more emotional than any other nation.

And this posessiveness is not just limited to automobiles but to every sphere of life. Be it movie stars we like the most, home town/neighborhood we live in or grew up in, schools and colleges we went to, friends we have and above all our family.

You don't call a person, who says I went to the best college in India, a Fanboy, do you???
You don't call a person, who says I grew up in the best city in the world, a Hero Worshipper, do you???
So on and so forth.

Such statements are born more out of emotion than logic or facts based on verifiable data.

Same holds true for cars, unless you are struck with a lemon.
Lets accept who we are, emotional-posessive fools. Lets spare the adjectives while we are at this forum, after all the objective of being here (T-BHP) is to share information and gain knowledge from our friends (remember we are here as FRIENDS).

The condition of the Indian roads already give us plenty of oppertunity to us better (I mean more derogatory) adjectives, daily.
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Old 27th April 2010, 17:20   #87
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Blame the education system for the crippling effect on us. seriously, we do have the door mat symptoms sometimes.
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