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Old 1st March 2009, 14:50   #151
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True, but smaller displacement translates to bigger strain on the engine. Mind you, this car is not going to be light.

OT: I do believe that the 3 litre dicor on Safari will last longer than 2.2 in the long run.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
dont go with the displacement capacity of the engine my friend.

even a 2 lit engine can produce upto 150 bhp.

scorpio's & safari's 2.2 lit engine produces more power than innova's & tavera's 2.5 lit unit.
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Old 1st March 2009, 15:01   #152
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I think the 2.1 is a mistake. They spend a lot of money developing the 2.2 Mhawk and we will most likely see the 140 bhp version of the Mhawk in here similar to the Safari. Since the mhawk is really 2179 cc he may have mistakenly said that it is 2.1 liter.
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Old 1st March 2009, 17:00   #153
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True, engines with lesser displacements can still produce high power. For lighter vehicles smaller engines might be enough, but the test mule seems to be huge, and probably quite heavy too. I believe a bigger engine will do more justice to the beast, at least as far as durability goes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
dont go with the displacement capacity of the engine my friend.

even a 2 lit engine can produce upto 150 bhp.

scorpio's & safari's 2.2 lit engine produces more power than innova's & tavera's 2.5 lit unit.
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Old 1st March 2009, 18:48   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VINUMON View Post
True, engines with lesser displacements can still produce high power. For lighter vehicles smaller engines might be enough, but the test mule seems to be huge, and probably quite heavy too. I believe a bigger engine will do more justice to the beast, at least as far as durability goes.
but bigger engines also mean greater fuel consumption.
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Old 1st March 2009, 19:19   #155
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But then this vehicle is purported to be a premium SUV. Not one for the aam aadmi.

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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
but bigger engines also mean greater fuel consumption.
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Old 1st March 2009, 20:59   #156
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I can't believe that you guys are going at Mahindra for testing this vehicle on the open roads. I suppose you guys have not seen the plight of some of the State Transport Buses or some lorries with rusted body panels sticking out to maim pedestrians/two wheeler riders and damage other cars. A corporate taxi sumo in Bangalore is more dangerous to other road goers than this SUV.

If you list the problems we are faced with on Indian roads Mahindra roadtesting the next generation SUV is the least of my worries.
Dude, that is not a proper answer. A problem caused is a problem caused, no matter who does it. And let's not say because somebody (big) does it, so why not let everybody do it. You have a life because everybody does NOT do it. Understood?

Creating a mess is no answer for solving another. It just becomes a bigger mess. Let's not add to the crap, yes?

BH.

P.S.: And if you compare the quality of travel in the state transport buses, they have surely NOT gone down in the last 10 years and many of them now operate state of the art buses, volvos or otherwise.

Last edited by BurningHeart : 1st March 2009 at 21:12.
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Old 1st March 2009, 21:13   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VINUMON View Post
True, but smaller displacement translates to bigger strain on the engine. Mind you, this car is not going to be light.

OT: I do believe that the 3 litre dicor on Safari will last longer than 2.2 in the long run.
smaller displacement does not necessarily mean strain on the engine. thats a wrong conception.

a 80 bhp engine on a 2 ton SUV loaded with 10 passengers & load is strained. but a 140 bhp engine on the same SUV with same load is not/less strained. simply because it generates more power to lug the load.

the 3.0 safari's unit generates 115 bhp as opposed to 140 bhp of 2.2 safari, so i dont think the 2.2 safari's engine will be more strained. life of the engine can be decreased if you over stress the engine by over loading the vehicle. there again the engine which makes more power has an advantage.

that is what i think.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 11:29   #158
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I beg to differ Raj. You see, the LCVs that we see around us are not high in BHP, still the load-carrying ability of these machines is amazing. Can a smaller, yet high BHP engine do the same duty? I think the answer is a no. (It can be argued though that an LCV is not built to move fast). Let's leave the verdict to the experts, but a bigger disp engine with enough power should do wonders on this beast.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 16:24   #159
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vinumon the world is moving towards higher output from lower displacement engines so raj's point is valid. As you are aware fuel injection technology has moved leaps and bounds to make this happen even in LCV's where tourque factor matters and this is also achievable through better plumbing/high speed injection system.

In the US SUV's are dying or about die a slow death due to the very same reason and yes the environment but the fact remains that manufacturers can now extract more from smaller engines because they must!!

Incidently the CRV came in 2.4 and 2 liter launched later and I have been told (by competitors) that the 2 liter sells more units than the 2.4 so you figure the am admi bit because the last time I checked am admi does not buy 20 lac CRV's or for that matter 26 lacs superb to be launched with 2 liter PD

Last edited by canonball : 2nd March 2009 at 16:27.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 17:49   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canonball View Post
vinumon the world is moving towards higher output from lower displacement engines so raj's point is valid. As you are aware fuel injection technology has moved leaps and bounds to make this happen even in LCV's where tourque factor matters and this is also achievable through better plumbing/high speed injection system.

In the US SUV's are dying or about die a slow death due to the very same reason and yes the environment but the fact remains that manufacturers can now extract more from smaller engines because they must!!

Incidently the CRV came in 2.4 and 2 liter launched later and I have been told (by competitors) that the 2 liter sells more units than the 2.4 so you figure the am admi bit because the last time I checked am admi does not buy 20 lac CRV's or for that matter 26 lacs superb to be launched with 2 liter PD
AFAIK engine strain has nothing to do with displacement. The only thing it is related to is the load put on the engine vis-s-vis the load for which it was designed.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 18:45   #161
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My view is that in order to eke out maximum bhp from smaller engines you need to run them at much higher rps. For example look at the 2.2 Dicor engine from the current Safari and the earlier DICOR engine. The torque output is about the same, but the 3.0 dicor is a much lower revving engine. Remember the higher the Revs the more wear and tear on the pistons and cylynders. So a smaller cc engine with a higher output will typically be run at much higher rps over its life compared with an engine which can make torque at much lower rps and that doesn't need to be revved up as high.

I guess for the most users who typically sell their cars in a couple of yeas it does't matter but for example if you look at the 4.2 liter inline six diesel engine that used to come in the Toyota Landcruiser 70/100 series makes about the same power as the 3.0 CRDi engine on the Prado, but I think the 4.2 inline six deisel will last a lot longer than the 3.0 CRDi engine.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 09:22   #162
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Hi All,

I found this link from Mahindra US.
I wonder is it related with new SUV.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 10:54   #163
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Hi, welcome to the team. If you are referring to the car in the future vehicle section, that is the recently launched muv - xylo. May be mahindra has plans to introduce it in north america.


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Originally Posted by mrsrt8 View Post
Hi All,

I found this link from Mahindra US.
I wonder is it related with new SUV.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 3rd March 2009 at 11:02. Reason: Changed to upper/ lower case.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 11:36   #164
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Yes we are bound by NDA's but this is the info which M & M had disclosed during announcment of the project.I m just sharing the bits only..


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Originally Posted by MuraliR View Post
nice tit-bits - but are you not bound by any Non-Disclosure Agreements?
Lot of effort is going into this platform and many vehicles have been used as benchmarks for improving the overall quality, well we need to wait and watch.

Regards


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Originally Posted by Anthym View Post
Hi mridul,

Truly appreciate the info you provided. Mahindra continues with the practice of adding value with its new products.
As a supplier to this project, is particular attention been given to quality checks since Mahindra touts this as a world car and hopes to sell this in US & Western Europe. I am not too happy with current quality of plastics in the Xylo.
Like other BHPian's I share the same view that with the advent of new technology in diesel combustion it would become a myth that larger engines can only produce huge power, the talk in the global automotive studies mention that the future in diesel engine technology would be usage of lighter material in manufacture of engines with emphasis given on designing engines below 2 litre or lower to produce the same amount of power as larger engines which are 3.0L and above. And as you are aware the Indian govt charges higher duties for engine capacities over 2.5litres...Hence would you want pay higher duties for a larger engine capacity..

Thats why manufacturers are working hard to get maximum out of smaller engines and that would be the future... Example the Fiat engines used by Suzuki,Fiat & TATA for their platforms.

Cheers


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Originally Posted by VINUMON View Post
I dont know if am jumping the gun, but I am a bit disappointed with the engine specs. I would have settled for a bigger engine, a 3-litre one perhaps.

Last edited by Zappo : 12th March 2009 at 01:05. Reason: Use the multiquote button to respond to many people at one go. Do not make back-to-back posts, please.
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Old 3rd March 2009, 15:36   #165
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Bolting in a twin turbo on the 2.1L would produce 150+ bhp. I am not sure whether Mahindra has got this technology.
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