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Old 24th May 2011, 21:56   #1066
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The pricing for the new W201 at 18-20 lakhs wont be surprising, maybe Mahindra doesn't expect this SUV to be a volume seller. Pricing may be justified if this SUV provides a much better VFM package for people who may be considering an alternative to Fortuner. Moreover pricing it at 13-15 lakhs would cannibalize sales of Scorpio which sells 4000+ units every month.
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Old 24th May 2011, 22:06   #1067
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No disrespect to Scorpio and its fans but to me it now looks dated and should be replaced. I understand that Scorpio has been updated many times (engine, suspension, cosmetic) but overall it shows its age. More contemporary vehicles have better dynamics and ergonomics standards. I believe it could be too much to ask for but can M&M do what toyota did with hot selling Qualis. Can W201 replace Scorpio?
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Old 25th May 2011, 08:31   #1068
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I agree that they won't price it near Scorpio and cannibalize there bread and butter sales .

This will be certainly more then 18 Lakhs price target ,If this is the best from M& M stable till date .

Today a V version of Innova costs 16 Lakhs+ for a vehicle with almost no gizmos ...
If we want all wheel drive , traction control , ABS , TPMS , its going to cost more for sure .

If a Toyota prices more then 20 Lakhs , we are ready to pay . Not sure why we have a mind set of not paying more for a Indian SUV Best from M& M stable ???

Last edited by Ranga : 25th May 2011 at 08:33.
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Old 25th May 2011, 12:46   #1069
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This mind set amongst us is simply because no Indian manufacturer until date has been able to come up to proper international standards in terms of fit, finish, quality and finesse of their interiors, dashboards and overall trim quality.
Panel gaps and other bugs abound as also slightly dodgy electronics - at least when it comes to the reliability and longevity of the said electronics.
Whether it is a Tata Aria or an M&M W201 these facts will always remain as niggles in the consumer's mind until they are fixed beyond any shadow of doubt, by the said manufacturers.
Frankly, the Koreans, higher-end Chinese manufacturers and most definitely the Japanese, are streets ahead of us Indians when it comes to the above aspects. We Indians still have the concept of "export quality" and "domestic quality" standards and compromises very much evident and alive in our business practices, especially in the manufacturing/ engineering sectors. Why should we as Indian consumers not be eligible for "export quality" in the products that we purchase? I personally cannot stand this step-motherly treatment that is being meted out to us.
This is not to say that the Tata Aria and M&M W201 are not good efforts. They certainly are and they are definitely excellent in their own way. But in my opinion, both of these could do with some improvements from the "first cut" and they certainly would do well to re-visit their pricing strategies/ value offerings from the consumer point of view.


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If a Toyota prices more then 20 Lakhs , we are ready to pay . Not sure why we have a mind set of not paying more for a Indian SUV Best from M& M stable ???

Last edited by shankar.balan : 25th May 2011 at 12:51.
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:49   #1070
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Originally Posted by Ranga View Post
If a Toyota prices more then 20 Lakhs , we are ready to pay . Not sure why we have a mind set of not paying more for a Indian SUV Best from M& M stable ???
Please note, ours is a cost aware country, we sure expect bang for every penny we spend. Toyota and the llikes maintain the same QUALITY throughout the world, but whereas our desi OEMs dont. They have a separate quality control for domestic and export market, why do they do that ? When we are paying over a million bucks, we do have certain expectations, right ?

So its not about Toyota Vs Desi OEMs or anything like that, its all about VFM and meeting expectations.
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Old 25th May 2011, 17:57   #1071
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This so called world SUV will have no chance atleast in India if they plan to sell it upwards of 18 lakhs. The best price range would be 11-13 lakhs. look what happened to Aria. So what if it gets into Scorpio's price band and eats up some of its sales, Bolero higher end models eats into Xylo's sales and Xylo's high end models fall into the Scorpio range. They should be bothered about positioning themselves as SUV/MUV manufactures who are present in every price band and for every pocket. They should aim at what Maruti has been able to achieve with their line up.
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Old 25th May 2011, 18:04   #1072
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Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
Please note, ours is a cost aware country, we sure expect bang for every penny we spend. Toyota and the llikes maintain the same QUALITY throughout the world, but whereas our desi OEMs dont. They have a separate quality control for domestic and export market, why do they do that ? When we are paying over a million bucks, we do have certain expectations, right ?

So its not about Toyota Vs Desi OEMs or anything like that, its all about VFM and meeting expectations.
For a product which offers the same quality and reliability, with decent on road dynamics, paying more wont bother us much.

And don't forget about BRAND TOYOTA! It is one of the important factors for the Fortuner's success, apart from the butch styling
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Old 25th May 2011, 18:09   #1073
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Well its for wait and watch game on what M & M will do with the W201. ( Product positioning ) .
Surely expectations are high and hope M & M would raise to this occasion.
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Old 25th May 2011, 18:33   #1074
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Originally Posted by ranc View Post
This so called world SUV will have no chance atleast in India if they plan to sell it upwards of 18 lakhs. The best price range would be 11-13 lakhs. look what happened to Aria. So what if it gets into Scorpio's price band and eats up some of its sales, Bolero higher end models eats into Xylo's sales and Xylo's high end models fall into the Scorpio range. They should be bothered about positioning themselves as SUV/MUV manufactures who are present in every price band and for every pocket. They should aim at what Maruti has been able to achieve with their line up.
Well said ranc: These guys at M&M seem to confused to the glory. The range of products they have are quite similar to one another Bolero, Scorpio and W201, all are SUVs, but none of them are cooked properly, add to this new range of SUVs from Ssangyong, I wonder how will they position them in the market . Would be good for them if they had to rebuild their portfolio and price them wisely. (Bolero @ 5L-7L, Scorpio @ 7L-10L, Ssangyong 1 @ 10l-13L, Ssangyong 2 @ 13-16L and W201 @ 16L-20L ). Of course not forgetting the quality and necessary gadgetry thrown in for the price of the product

Success of Scorpio(40K+) and Bolero(80K+) seem to have gotten into their heads and eventually stopped working which is they are in the state of well, whatever...

But again, cant blame them, because they are doing business and they are doing it good.
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Old 25th May 2011, 22:59   #1075
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The best price range would be 11-13 lakhs.
This definitely will not happen ! This is bang into scorpio's range. But I would like to see the W201 priced a lakh above the top end Scorpio - may be 15 Lac onwards. 18L for the base version is way too optimistic for M&M badge.
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Old 26th May 2011, 10:33   #1076
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Earlier we in India took a BIG step when we bought the Scorpio / Safari for around 10+L, (I did) Do remember that when the these vehicle were launched the same stables either did not have any experience in selling cars itself or only had trucks / jeeps in a totally different price range.

So yes a person spending close to 10L for Safari / Scorpio around the year 2000 is today doing something very similar when he buys a vehicle from the same stable for about 15-20L. Costs have gone up (Inflation+), the Brands are today better acknowledged as Passenger vehicle manufacturers and quality is miles ahead.

So why not? Besides Purchasing power has increased tremendously. Yes if one compares with a Safari or Scorpio puchased just this year for say 11-13L then it may require a mindset change but lets all also remember than 10 years back too these vehicles did end up with an or road cost of 10L and we did hesidate then but then so many of us did also take the plunge then so why not today at close to 20L? And the Aria and the W201 are so much more.

And as far as options go, - well nothing beats the Value that the Mahindra & TATA vehicles bring even at 20L price points when we consider the features and the entire package as opposed to the competition.

Last edited by ACM : 26th May 2011 at 10:35.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:18   #1077
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Earlier we in India took a BIG step when we bought the Scorpio / Safari for around 10+L, (I did) Do remember that when the these vehicle were launched the same stables either did not have any experience in selling cars itself or only had trucks / jeeps in a totally different price range.

So yes a person spending close to 10L for Safari / Scorpio around the year 2000 is today doing something very similar when he buys a vehicle from the same stable for about 15-20L. Costs have gone up (Inflation+), the Brands are today better acknowledged as Passenger vehicle manufacturers and quality is miles ahead.
I agree with these points.

At the same time, Safari & Scorpio didn't have another world class product competing with them which helps those maintain its respective sales. But move to the 20L bracket & people have more choices from renowned brands. That's where the problem lies.

If we look at the MUV segment as well, this is obvious. Xylo brings in better specs / features at a lower price, still Innova outsells it by almost double the numbers with a "premium" pricing. Look at the Fortuner, with the kind of "Innovaish" interiors & insane waiting periods, it manages to sell 3 times more than the feature packed Aria. Though Aria / W201 will be leagues ahead of Safari / Scorpio, I guess it will take a lot of time for both the brands to come out of the lower brand / image value to sport these kinda price tags.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 26th May 2011 at 11:27.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:36   #1078
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[quote=ACM;2366166]So why not? Besides Purchasing power has increased tremendously. Yes if one compares with a Safari or Scorpio puchased just this year for say 11-13L then it may require a mindset change but lets all also remember than 10 years back too these vehicles did end up with an or road cost of 10L and we did hesidate then but then so many of us did also take the plunge then so why not today at close to 20L? And the Aria and the W201 are so much more.
[quote]

Of those who took the plunge, many were dissapointed with the constant niggles and quality issues. So much so that I personally know at least more than one Safari owners who advise everyone within ear shot not to go near the vehicle.

Besides ACM, did we have any other decent option within the price bracket at that point of time? But now, these high end Tata and Mahindra products will have to slug it out with the likes of Innova and Fortuner (and some others). Admittedly both the companies have taken huge strides in the past decade, but they are entering unchartered territorry, and should up the ante accordingly.
Frankly, I have my doubts. But lets hope for the best for the sake of us consumers.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:57   #1079
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Avisidu and Swift&furious, liked your balanced and optimistic views. The Problem I do have while fighting out the case in such a scenario for TATA or M&M is that I did put my money where i shot off my mouth. Makes me kinda biased.

Yet seeing what TATA has managed on the Aria in terms of quality and features (It can still be better and there will surely be a V2 in a couple of years) but frankly it feels leagues ahead of the fortuner and other competition in the 20L 7 seater territory.

M&M should definately manage the same and maybe even more.

Yes brand acceptance will be a challenge but then Safari / Scorpio too were not selling in the 1000's in the first year.

Yes time will tell and yet somehow being an India increases the bias a bit more and one seriously wishes that these endeavours (pun unintended) in the SUV/Crossover segment by these two companies do succed in India and are taken abroad too.

Last edited by ACM : 26th May 2011 at 11:59.
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Old 26th May 2011, 15:51   #1080
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Yes time will tell and yet somehow being an India increases the bias a bit more and one seriously wishes that these endeavours (pun unintended) in the SUV/Crossover segment by these two companies do succed in India and are taken abroad too.
Couldn't have agreed more. What gives us hope is the pace at which they have bettered their vehicles, so much so that the Aria and the new Manza no longer seem like Tata products!
As you have rightly said, there's no reason why Mahindra cannot do the same, or even better. The thing is, they can ill afford not to do so with these vehicles
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