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Old 11th March 2009, 11:29   #106
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Default Brand premium

I understand that some brands command a premium.
A premium of 50k is reasonable, you can pay that much extra for your fav brand.
But people still seem to be paying that difference in lakhs

Ex:
ANHC (S MT) is now 1.7 Lacs more than Linea (petrol emotion pk).
You can buy a spare nano with that extra money
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Old 11th March 2009, 11:37   #107
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I was looking at the UK prices for the superminis (which are premium hatches in our context)
  1. Skoda Fabia 8,195 - 13,140
  2. Hyundai i20 8,395 - 12,095
  3. Suzuki Swift 8,750 - 11,990
  4. Honda Jazz 9,780 - 13,362
  5. Ford Fusion 11,995 - 15,095
Honda Jazz is sustantially more expensive then the i20 and a shade higher then even Fabia.

So, if they price it between 7.0-8.5 L onroad, it will be keeping in line with their pricing elsewhere and not something new they are adopting specifically for India (to rob Indian customers ). But will the cutsomers be ready to pay that much for what is seen as a mere hatch is a different question.
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Old 11th March 2009, 11:44   #108
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You can also buy 2 Lineas for 1 Civic's price and enjoy 2 executive segments cars, instead of one
Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
Ex:
ANHC (S MT) is now 1.7 Lacs more than Linea (petrol emotion pk).
You can buy a spare nano with that extra money
People pay for quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
I see Honda sales going up and getting stronger. No matter what Honda does, people will lap up their products.
. People pay the price if its 'worth'. Past history shows the 'worth'.
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
In a capital market a Honda (or any other brand) is free to price City at 20L OTR if they want. If there are no buyers, they should soon be back to where they belong.
I guess Honda cars are priced likewise in India. Even I don't get the 'ripping the customer' story.
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
So, if they price it between 7.0-8.5 L onroad, it will be keeping in line with their pricing elsewhere and not something new they are adopting specifically for India (to rob Indian customers ).

Last edited by diabloo : 11th March 2009 at 11:59.
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Old 11th March 2009, 12:25   #109
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Default Honda USA prices

I dunno about UK prices, but in USA (Honda's primary market), you get a Civic 4-door starting at $16000-17000 (8-8.5 lac rupees).
Now for that price, you don't even get a City here, forget the Civic.

The point people are making here is ... if they are able to give that price in US, why not here?
Maybe they have 100% localization in US. Let them try to do the same here and let the Indian people get the benefit too!

One more thing, Honda is not a premium brand in US (no brand value / snob value associated).
For premium brand image people buy Acura (Honda's premium brand and starting from $25-30000).

just my 2 cents ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I was looking at the UK prices for the superminis (which are premium hatches in our context)
  1. Skoda Fabia 8,195 - 13,140
  2. Hyundai i20 8,395 - 12,095
  3. Suzuki Swift 8,750 - 11,990
  4. Honda Jazz 9,780 - 13,362
  5. Ford Fusion 11,995 - 15,095
Honda Jazz is sustantially more expensive then the i20 and a shade higher then even Fabia.

So, if they price it between 7.0-8.5 L onroad, it will be keeping in line with their pricing elsewhere and not something new they are adopting specifically for India (to rob Indian customers ). But will the cutsomers be ready to pay that much for what is seen as a mere hatch is a different question.
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Old 11th March 2009, 12:32   #110
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Cold logic to the Honda raising the car prices has got nothing to do with Honda . Simple fact is that all imports are $ denominated and Rupee has depreciated by almost 30 % raising prices of all imported parts at the same time Yen appreciation has meant that Japan is receving less Yen for every component exported something has to give away . Realities of a globalized economy can't be wished away .
On flip side cooling down of commodity prices mean that domestic co.s like M & M and Tata Motors shall be able to price their products more cheaply than before and can pass on a substatial part of tax cuts to consumer
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Old 11th March 2009, 13:37   #111
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Yes, true. My comments can be extended to other manufacturers as well.
Even after significant localization (70% or more), they are pricing way higher than US. Which is what ticks me off

Last edited by theMAG : 11th March 2009 at 13:39.
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Old 11th March 2009, 13:43   #112
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Comparing US prices with India's ? I can only .
I think you need to compare other manufactures also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
I dunno about UK prices, but in USA (Honda's primary market), you get a Civic 4-door starting at $16000-17000 (8-8.5 lac rupees).
Now for that price, you don't even get a City here, forget the Civic.
The reason is US yearly car sales are close to 5 million. In India its slightly above 10% of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
Yes, true. My comments can be extended to other manufacturers as well.
Even after significant localization (70% or more), they are pricing way higher than US. Which is what ticks me off

Last edited by diabloo : 11th March 2009 at 13:49.
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Old 11th March 2009, 15:33   #113
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Agree diabloo , we cant compare them like that . The market is so huge in USA .

i once read that the number of cars in India now is similar to the number of cars was present in US during 1960's.
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Old 11th March 2009, 15:51   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Comparing US prices with India's ? I can only .
I think you need to compare other manufactures also.



The reason is US yearly car sales are close to 5 million. In India its slightly above 10% of that.
I wonder if US sales would be 5 million if they were priced as atrociously as they are in India, This argument doesn't wash.

And before someone mentions taxes India is not the only country with taxes, do you know how many rules and regulations, starting from employee and labour rules, environmental rules, compliance and regulation manufacturers have to adhere to in western countries.

Prices are higher here on plain dollar with little justification. Americans for instance with ten times our purchasing power can thus buy these cars for a fraction of their annual income. If they priced reasonably here they would get volumes won't they? And conversely if amercians had to pay a huger portion of their annual income like we do here to buy a car the volumes would automatically drop and Honda and Toyota would magically transform into premium cars like they are here.

But given the wide income disparities they are happy 'creaming' the the price insensitive market in countries like India. They didn't start with high volumes in the US, there is something called developing a market where one delibvers a value proposition that appeals to consumers. But in third world countries with weak regulation the lazy cream strategy works better it seems.

Given the significantly lower costs of business in terms of labour, general business and marketing costs, labour and marketing is ridiculously expensive in the US and yet cos like Honda and Toyota sell cars cheaply. What gives? Given the purchasing power, concepts like purchasing power parity and lower income levels and thus lower costs in countries like India the pricing is pure profiteering.

Last edited by raul : 11th March 2009 at 16:10.
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Old 11th March 2009, 16:29   #115
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The manufacturing/labor/parts costs should be way less in India than in western countries.

I think due to strong competition in the US car market, the prices are kept in check. If these manufacturers (Honda, Toyota whoever) try to milk the customers as they are doing in India, no one will buy their cars, simple.

But in India, people still seem to buy Honda's cars despite their ridiculous prices. They are emboldened by this and do not think twice before increasing prices (even for localized productions).

Something's gotta give!
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Old 11th March 2009, 16:39   #116
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With these new prices, the accord is going to be a lac short of the new Superb and the size and luxury will have people considering it over the Accord for sure. The Passat was way out in front in terms of pricing, but now Skoda stands a chance to eat into the Honda marketshare.
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Old 11th March 2009, 16:47   #117
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If Honda is going continue this attitude in the Indian market then its going to be R.I.P Honda India soon!

They have already created a competition where the Accord buyers will be interested to look at the Skoda Superb & the CRV buyers have a choice between the Outlander & Captiva!
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Old 11th March 2009, 16:59   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
If Honda is going continue this attitude in the Indian market then its going to be R.I.P Honda India soon!

They have already created a competition where the Accord buyers will be interested to look at the Skoda Superb & the CRV buyers have a choice between the Outlander & Captiva!
Skoda needs to improve its A.S.S. hugely to be able to compete with Honda. There is this other thread running which talks about the amount of rubbish from the dealers that the Skoda owners are having to put up with.

As regards Captiva, since it's a GM product, I really doubt how much of CRV sales it can displace. Not too sure about the Outlander. I don't see too many of them around though (as yet!).

Honda sells 60-70k cars in India annually? Till the time they don't have a mass market car, and they are selling primarily in the less price sensitive segments, they can live with this attitude. If the Jazz is gonna be in a 6 -8 lakh range, then the price sensitivity kicks in and they can't simple put a premium based on brand. Skoda can vouch for that with the Fabia.
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Old 11th March 2009, 22:48   #119
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Originally Posted by vineethvazhayil View Post
Skoda needs to improve its A.S.S. hugely to be able to compete with Honda. There is this other thread running which talks about the amount of rubbish from the dealers that the Skoda owners are having to put up with.

As regards Captiva, since it's a GM product, I really doubt how much of CRV sales it can displace. Not too sure about the Outlander. I don't see too many of them around though (as yet!).

Honda sells 60-70k cars in India annually? Till the time they don't have a mass market car, and they are selling primarily in the less price sensitive segments, they can live with this attitude. If the Jazz is gonna be in a 6 -8 lakh range, then the price sensitivity kicks in and they can't simple put a premium based on brand. Skoda can vouch for that with the Fabia.
I have seen the thread about the concerns with Skoda A.S.S! But there are majority of other folks here and some I know who own Skoda & vouch for the QOS offered by Skoda A.S.S! The Honda A.S.S is respectably good but they also have their share of customers who have concerns. And Skoda has always been a premium brand than Honda in India. Honda is not a premium brand in any part of the world.

Captiva & Outlander are exceptionally good packages when compared to CRV. It doesnt matter how many you see on the road or whether the GM mothership is in crisis.

And I do seriously wonder how many people would be ready to pay the premium of 3.54 Lakhs to get the H + CRV badge. And a 3.54 Lakh hike is not a joke, its daylight robbery at its best!

I am now too excited about the Jazz which is scheduled for launch this year. It would be too good & interesting if the OTR price of the Jazz comes close to 10 Lakhs!

Last edited by anachronix : 11th March 2009 at 22:54.
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Old 11th March 2009, 22:50   #120
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
And thats what i always do thats why i dont have a Honda.
No doubt they make very good cars with brilliant technology and comfort but so do many others. There cars are well overpriced(more now after the price increase) and no matter what people say the sales will take a hit due to this.
Absolutely.

Quote:
Accord - Its only competitor i can see is a Laura which is diesel and offers more features.
Not really; Now the new Superb is out with excellent pricing. Once the new Laura is out, it will be a pincer attack on Accord.
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