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Old 29th March 2009, 22:58   #151
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Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
My passion is driving cars not a FIAT
Ive never driven a fiat kp. Are they that bad???
But I would like to know. How good is the linea? I've read a lot of initial ownership reports - its amazing the kind of complaints people ar ehaving with their brand new lineas right from delivery. Random stuff like speedometer not working () and rattling on the door from time of delivery, not to mention someone who had to unload his passengers to get hte car over a speed breaker. Is the linea really that good? Can it be compared to the verna D and the fiesta D?
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Old 30th March 2009, 00:25   #152
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A note on this sailboat discussion.
First of all - hyundai is the first to stand up and say that theyve got a soft suspension setting on the verna. I used to wonder why they used to be so proud about it. But over time I have realized how effective the suspension is when your doing doing decent speeds on a relatively poor road, with 1/2 people in the car, or with the car loaded. I dont feel a thing under these circumstances.
I absolutely second that. My passengers are least disturbed when I take such roads. Obviously, when you drive on bad stretches in India, you are supposed to slow down, not rally drive. Then - the Verna is the most comfortable of all.
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Old 30th March 2009, 00:51   #153
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Turn both the verna and fiesta at 50-60km/hr. You'd notice how much the verna rolls. If the folks on the rear seat don't have seatbelts on, they'd be all over each other. On the fiesta, you'd see no such drama.

reignofchaos, there appears to be a lot of masala in your post. I have done 15000 km in 8 months in my Verna CRDI, and have never ever felt anything even close to this for my rear passengers. What drama are you talking about? C'mon!

The perception that a super soft suspension gives good ride quality is nothing but a myth. The real truth is that the suspension must be decently stiff for the ride quality to be good. If the suspension is too soft, the car would end up wallowing every time you turn and the slow rebound rate of the suspension would at times make the ride worse than it could have been. The handling would be severely compromised because of body roll and the rear passengers would have a hard time even at not so high speeds.

Your theory is correct - but that's where it stops - at theory. Practically, remember that the Verna is not sold to rally drivers, but is expected to carry passengers for comfort. Perception is reality, if passengers in the car percieve it to be comfortable! When you see bad roads, you are not expected to zoom to 150kmph and manoeuvre a corner. You slow down, and in the Verna, after that, one does not feel the bad road. Period. And you have gone ahead and even said that passengers in Verna will have a hard time even at not so high speeds? By what stretch of imagination? I have heard words of praises for the comfortable ride from my passengers who are not my regular family passengers, but colleagues and friends who got into the Verna for a single ride - always. Many have said they have found this comfort only in an Innova - and when they say that, I know they are talking about the soft ride. So please. You have a stiffer suspension - you have a rougher ride - not good for comfort - that's it! Like all automotive engineering parameters, this one too is a compromise between contradicting constraints. Is that so difficult to understand?


Err having driven enough turbo diesels, I'd say by the time you blokes with turbos get into the turbo band, we petrolheads would already have disappeared .
The last part of yours is the best joke. I am yet to see a petrol in this category, get ahead of me in the last 8 months. At least until I have let it pass.

Anyway, like I said from the beginning, its the package, and every car has it's pluses and minuses. But couldn't help coming in with some facts seeing this post!
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Old 30th March 2009, 01:02   #154
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
the steering has no feel and it rolls like a sailboat.
Again - what are you talking about? Couldn't help replying separately. Steering has no feel? What is this 'feel' you are discussing about? I've been driving since I was 12 and can't help smiling at this!

By 'feel' you mean feedback to the driver? Or you want to feel the shocks at the wheel?

I have never had an issue steering my Verna at 120 - 140 - 160 kmph on Indian highways (Mysore road / Bangalore - Salem / Bangalore - Chennai, etc.). I do gradual curves at those speeds on highways that have 2 or 3 lanes on one side of the road, because it is safety first for me, and it is plain eazy with the Verna. If you are talking about the 'feel' necessary to do this stunt on a dividerless highway in India, you need to participate in a rally. Not on our roads. And I bet the Fiesta TDCi can't even maintain that speed, forget handling it.
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Old 30th March 2009, 02:42   #155
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Lets not cover up weakneases now, like others here I have driven the verna and most other cars in it's segment on the Pune Mumbai expressway and found it's handling dubious. It's not for nothing that it's called a boat, however this attempt to dismiss this feedback under the guise of good and bad drivers and making handling a relative issue is misguided. How does one decide a good and bad driver, handling isnt relative, good and bad driver is.

Surely the only way to discover a good driver is on a race track or else it's a valueless self appointed label that has no meaning.

Just because India has bad roads or one shouldn't drive at high speeds doesn't mean one can't evaluate handling or it's relevance in choosing a car, saying that this or airbags depend on driver skill sounds like an excuse for the verna, airbags are important safety features irrespective of driver skill infact driver skill has no relevance on any safety discussion, perhaps everyone here thinks they are good drivers.

Airbags and better handling would make verna a better car than it now as will a powerful engine for the linea and more space for the fiesta, are fiesta owners going to say rear space doesn't matter because they drive alone or linea owners a more powerful engine doesn't matter because you can't go fast on Indian roads.
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Old 30th March 2009, 03:12   #156
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Originally Posted by sdmn View Post
Lamborghini, agree with you.

Want to add just one aspect about Hyundai's global reputation. From being known as the 'cheaper alternative' in US, they are now becoming the more 'reliable and quality' car maker.

One can't even begin comparing the Indian market to US - they are distinct. Be it the ground clearance, the cheaper diesel, the need for a powerful engine on Indian highways (relevant to the Verna CRDI), the service network or, believe it since it is happening on the ground - the brand image. Hyundai is already world no.5, and rising - the only serious competition it is going to face in the coming years, is from Toyota and Honda in any market.

It is just that in the US, Hyundai has to fight the ’traditional good perception’ on which Ford and GM have been riding on for a while now. Wait and watch - you will have Toyota, Honda and Hyundai as the global top 3 - in any order. In India, Hyundai doesn’t have the ’brand image’ challenge it faces in US - Hyundai gets to build its image from scratch - and it has made sure it has got the India pulse exactly right. Hyundai Verna sales speak for themselves.

In India, Hyundai is now known for quality and solid reliable cars. I doubt if Ford is even equal in that regard in India.

Amen!
I completely agree bro. BTW, Fords and GM don't have a good reputation as FE, reliable vehicles. However, Hyundai was considered a poor brand in the US, and while they aren't fighting off Ford and GM, they are fighting off this image of theirs and I hope things do improve for them there.
As for Fords being reliable, I found them to be very reliable.

Also, another point, while Hyundai has a good image, I feel it is slowly getting to their heads as can be seen in the pricing of their cars, such as the i10 - 5L for a Santro sized Auto is a ripoff! We paid that much for our palio - a whole size bigger and with that beautiful 100BHP engine!
I just hope they don't become more confident and turn out to become a Skoda. I just hope they remember how their bigger models like the Tucson and Sonata and such failed due to their impression of being a small car manufacturer and I hope they remember that when they price their vehicles.

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Originally Posted by pras.oct25 View Post
Ive never driven a fiat kp. Are they that bad???
But I would like to know. How good is the linea? I've read a lot of initial ownership reports - its amazing the kind of complaints people ar ehaving with their brand new lineas right from delivery. Random stuff like speedometer not working () and rattling on the door from time of delivery, not to mention someone who had to unload his passengers to get hte car over a speed breaker. Is the linea really that good? Can it be compared to the verna D and the fiesta D?
The Linea is quite good. Like Tata's and Maruti's, they do have niggling problems, but then again, so did the Verna and Fiesta. The Linea is a very competent automobile, and all it needs is a 1.6L MJD to take on the Verna in terms of performance, which is the only sore point IMHO. With the 1.6L MJD, I would be tempted to get it. Actually, i am more comfortable with the fiesta, but nevertheless, I would be tempted to convince dad to replace the Palio with the Punto, provided it comes with the 1.6L MJD. Who knows, I might even push to replace the fiesta with the 1.6L MJD Punto/Linea.

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Originally Posted by sdmn View Post
I absolutely second that. My passengers are least disturbed when I take such roads. Obviously, when you drive on bad stretches in India, you are supposed to slow down, not rally drive. Then - the Verna is the most comfortable of all.
Well, passengers in the fiesta haven't complained either. What I have noticed with the fiesta is that it hides small bumps and ridges, specially at speed.
BTW, see here's where the fiesta scores - since this is India and people slow down for bumps, it means that we forever drive slow given the condition of the road. However, since the fiesta has the best low end pick up in its category, it wins in the performance stakes too because the Verna owner wouldn't have an opportunity to let his turbo spool up as he is driving slow over the potholes. Just kidding.

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Originally Posted by raul View Post
Lets not cover up weaknesses now, like others here I have driven the verna and most other cars in it's segment on the Pune Mumbai expressway and found it's handling dubious. It's not for nothing that it's called a boat, however this attempt to dismiss this feedback under the guise of good and bad drivers and making handling a relative issue is misguided. How does one decide a good and bad driver, handling isnt relative, good and bad driver is.

Surely the only way to discover a good driver is on a race track or else it's a valueless self appointed label that has no meaning.

Just because India has bad roads or one shouldn't drive at high speeds doesn't mean one can't evaluate handling or it's relevance in choosing a car, saying that this or airbags depend on driver skill sounds like an excuse for the verna, airbags are important safety features irrespective of driver skill infact driver skill has no relevance on any safety discussion, perhaps everyone here thinks they are good drivers.

Airbags and better handling would make verna a better car than it now as will a powerful engine for the linea and more space for the fiesta, are fiesta owners going to say rear space doesn't matter because they drive alone or linea owners a more powerful engine doesn't matter because you can't go fast on Indian roads.
I completely agree with you raul.
I do agree that the fiesta doesn't have good rear space in comparison to other and that the Linea needs more pep, while the Verna could be a better handler.
Just remember, as sdmn said, each person chooses his/her own car depending on what they feel is the best package. For me, I chose the Fiesta because I don't use the rear seat and love all the other attributes. However, if I needed a family car, i might choose the Linea if I had a chauffeur or a Verna if I were to self drive.
This however, is no reason for Hyundai to skimp out of giving Airbags to a consumer! There is a difference between what a person wants from a car, and what a manufacturer should provide in a car, keeping in mind consumer safety.

Last edited by lamborghini : 30th March 2009 at 03:17.
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Old 30th March 2009, 07:30   #157
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@lamborghini I agree with you on the airbags front. No excuses for that. In fact hyundai should be given a real spanking for even offering the car without ABS as a mandatory feature. Lot of people still go for the verna without the ABS.

About the handling - yeah I guess it is subjective at times. Some people like the rigid feel of the fiesta, while others prefer the lighter feel of the verna. Given that the verna has a way more soft suspension setting then the fiesta, and that the steering is light. Maybe thats just hyundai's way of keeping people responsible, after they added the madness that is that engine to the car!
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Old 30th March 2009, 08:06   #158
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Originally Posted by sdmn View Post
Again - what are you talking about? Couldn't help replying separately. Steering has no feel? What is this 'feel' you are discussing about? I've been driving since I was 12 and can't help smiling at this!

By 'feel' you mean feedback to the driver? Or you want to feel the shocks at the wheel?

I have never had an issue steering my Verna at 120 - 140 - 160 kmph on Indian highways (Mysore road / Bangalore - Salem / Bangalore - Chennai, etc.). I do gradual curves at those speeds on highways that have 2 or 3 lanes on one side of the road, because it is safety first for me, and it is plain eazy with the Verna. If you are talking about the 'feel' necessary to do this stunt on a dividerless highway in India, you need to participate in a rally. Not on our roads. And I bet the Fiesta TDCi can't even maintain that speed, forget handling it.
Here is a little bit of exercise to check the handling of your car.

On the Bangalore to Chennai GQ Road as you approach Vaniyambadi there is a flyover which turns left hand almost at 90 Degree. Try taking the turn at speeds above 120KMPH in your Verna. And do let us know the experience!

A swift diesel could take it at 130KMPH!

You would see & feel what ReignofChaos is talking about if you take the turn at 120+KMPH!

Or if you want to keep saying that Verna handles more than expectations then you are under a perception cloud. The verna body roll is just too sickening & the brakes are just too bad in the non-ABS versions.

And yeah by the time the turbo kicks in, the petrol heads would be a mile away !
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Old 30th March 2009, 08:21   #159
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I believe the new versions of the Verna come with ABS standard and Airbags in the higher variant?
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Old 30th March 2009, 08:28   #160
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On the Bangalore to Chennai GQ Road as you approach Vaniyambadi there is a flyover which turns left hand almost at 90 Degree. Try taking the turn at speeds above 120KMPH in your Verna. And do let us know the experience!
Aiding and abetting suicide?? Isn't that against TBHP rules?
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Old 30th March 2009, 08:50   #161
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Originally Posted by pras.oct25 View Post
About the handling - yeah I guess it is subjective at times. Some people like the rigid feel of the fiesta, while others prefer the lighter feel of the verna. Given that the verna has a way more soft suspension setting then the fiesta, and that the steering is light. Maybe thats just hyundai's way of keeping people responsible, after they added the madness that is that engine to the car!
It is subjective. In the city, the lighter steering would be a boon as well as a selling point for women. My sister chose the accent viva over an Ikon simply because the steering was lighter, whereas I preferred the Ikon for the heavier steering.
I have a galant out here with a very light steering and let me tell you, it doesn't inspire confidence at all when one is driving on the highway at 120-140kmph
And I hope that is not Hyundai's answer to providing a powerful engine on a car with basic safety features, light steering and soft suspension. That is simple madness and 1 reason why I would still stay away from a Verna as a FTD car. There is a reason there are so many (perceived) accidents with people and Verna's. Hyundai should atleast make ABS and wider tyres mandatory for that car instead of A.C.C., specially given that it is priced considerably higher than an equivalent fiesta variant.

@redeff - No airbags. Only ABS on their top of the line version.
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Old 30th March 2009, 09:23   #162
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It is subjective. In the city, the lighter steering would be a boon as well as a selling point for women. My sister chose the accent viva over an Ikon simply because the steering was lighter, whereas I preferred the Ikon for the heavier steering.
I have a galant out here with a very light steering and let me tell you, it doesn't inspire confidence at all when one is driving on the highway at 120-140kmph
And I hope that is not Hyundai's answer to providing a powerful engine on a car with basic safety features, light steering and soft suspension. That is simple madness and 1 reason why I would still stay away from a Verna as a FTD car. There is a reason there are so many (perceived) accidents with people and Verna's. Hyundai should atleast make ABS and wider tyres mandatory for that car instead of A.C.C., specially given that it is priced considerably higher than an equivalent fiesta variant.

@redeff - No airbags. Only ABS on their top of the line version.
@ lamborghini I totally agree with you on this again. NO excuses what so ever for not making ABS and airbags mandatory on the verna. You can still live with a soft suspension and a lighter steering wheel. But good brakes are a must. But credit to hyundai, their ABS braking system is amazing. If only they made it compulsory on the entire range. Even the getz diesel for that matter really needs it.
And if I may add, even kp mentioned it - accidents happen with every single car in India. There are lots of cases of even mercs having accidents due to over speeding (check out the accidents in india thread). It is unfair to say that the verna is accident prone. Every car in india is accident prone.

@anachronix Turbo lag is the excuse we verna owners use to allow you petrolheads a fair chance at winning. The verna has enough power to give you guys a head start, and still over take you, and decimate you after that. Ive been there, and done that. The pleasure I get from seeing guys attempt to overtake me (read swifts, zens, hondas, toyotas etc etc) and then zooming away from them leaving them with no chance what so ever is unmatched!
No offence meant to anyone, just trying to spice up the silly argument

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Old 30th March 2009, 09:36   #163
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I believe the new versions of the Verna come with ABS standard and Airbags in the higher variant?
no airbags.for sure.
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Old 30th March 2009, 09:55   #164
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Here is a little bit of exercise to check the handling of your car.

On the Bangalore to Chennai GQ Road as you approach Vaniyambadi there is a flyover which turns left hand almost at 90 Degree. Try taking the turn at speeds above 120KMPH in your Verna. And do let us know the experience!

A swift diesel could take it at 130KMPH!

You would see & feel what ReignofChaos is talking about if you take the turn at 120+KMPH!

anachronix, this is exactly where you guys are missing my point.

I would never perform that stunt - even if 100 people say that the Verna is capable of doing that.

This is what I explained in detail. In those situations, in real life, if you value life of yourselves and others on the road, you would not do that with any car in India on that road! That's the point here! Hyundai has made the Verna for passenger comform and great performance for normal driving in India guys - not for rally drivers. Please understand, people with common sense will slow down to 80 - 100 kmph on that stretch - with or without airbags or ABS, or electronic traction control, or whatever!

I guess the point is more than made. The point is, again, not that the Verna is a better handler than Fiesta or than an F16 aircraft - the point is that it is more than sufficient for people who don't make the highways racing tracks thereby risking other's lives, but who make mature use of the amazing power that can put any similar category sedan to shame.
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Old 30th March 2009, 10:01   #165
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Hey bro,
I have had an accident in our fiesta doing 50! I do agree that accidents happen. However, what I meant to say is that there is a perception felt of Verna accidents being greater in number than those of other vehicles. This does have to do with the power of the vehicle as many of them occurred due to over speeding and lack of ABS/Airbags and good brakes.
I haven't sat in an ABS variant of the Verna so I can't comment on that. However, I will say that ABS should have been made mandatory in the Verna and Getz. Hyundai is one confused company. They provide 6 airbags in a 1.2L, 80bhp i20, whereas none in the 110BHP Getz and Verna CRDi.
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