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View Poll Results: Should Hyundai launch Accent Crdi at 5.5L?
Yes, it will be hit ! 91 80.53%
No, won't be a nice deal ! 12 10.62%
No idea, if it's a good thought ! 10 8.85%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th March 2009, 02:37   #46
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NO. The Ikon - although dated, is seen as more of an evergreen design than the Accent. If the Accent is to be reincarnated, it would have to undergo appropriate cosmetic upgrades first. And as someone said, that 3-pot motor isnt in the same level as the TDCi motor in the Ikon, and I'm not sure detuning the 1.5 CRDi from the Verna would help meet the price-point its be sold at.
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Old 8th March 2009, 08:20   #47
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@Steeroid & Mpower - you both are knocking the stuffing out of Predatorwheelz's arguments !
- How do we fit the following into your lines of reasoning:-
(a) Getz CRDI's stratospheric pricing - relative to other cars in its segment?
(b) Hyundai's 'restrained' approach in promoting the Getz CRDI?
(c) The fact that the CRDI engine has yet not been interated into the Accent?
(d) Is the increased cost of the CRDI powerplant (due to the factors put forward by Predatorwheelz) responsible for the above or are we missing something else?
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Old 8th March 2009, 14:48   #48
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1.5L VGT is not the only engine that comes to my mind.

>> there is the small wonder 1.1L producing around 75 bhp in i10. The TUD5 produced just around 57 bhp (??) and the 3-pot CRDi produced around 79 bhp.

>> detuned 1.5L (without VGT??) producing around 87 bhp in European Getz

>> new-gen 1.4L producing 75 or 90 bhp in i20

all these engines should be running around on the Chennai assembly line (global hub for small cars??). I believe one or the other engine would be suitable and viable for accent.
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Old 8th March 2009, 16:39   #49
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Default Supply and demand

Hey sorry everyone for not logging in the last 2 days. Hmm, seems like there's been a lot of uproar on this thread about what I wrote!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
No such thing. There is an estimate for yearly forecast and that can go up and down based on demand. Orders are placed on a weekly basis for parts. If car sales go down the supplier goes down with them.
I suggest we recheck our facts once again. The automotive industry in India works purely on a yearly order basis. The only changes that are allowed (weekly/monthly) are cosmetic/assembly changes. Overall numbers quoted remain same.

The reason why supplier takes a hit when car sales take a hit is different. In a recession, the auto manufacturer is burdened with unsold stock of finished goods, and is struggling to control inventory costs. But it cannot ask the supplier to cut down the quoted supply for that year. So its only hope is to request the supplier to hold the inventory at his end and subsequently forecast a much lower budget the next year (to clear out pile-ups from the previous year). The supplier suffers both in the short run (as its customer is refusing to accept delivery of finished goods) and the long run (next year's production figures have to be much lower due to lower budgets quoted by its customers). This is a vicious cycle which affects every link in the supply chain. That is why we see the automotive industry having one of the longest recovery periods from slump!

Lets look at it from your viewpoint now. If indeed orders could be edited on a weekly basis, the manufacturer would be in a position to dictate terms as and when he wishes, asking the supplier for lower quantities whenver he foresaw a slump. How would the supplier be able to plan his working capital cycle (RM-WIP-FG, in laymens terms) then? Do you know that even something as inconsequential as a gasket has a 3 month working capital cycle? And if he indeed acts strongheaded and decides to manufacture a fixed quantity every week (regardless of what the manufacturer demands) he would be stuck with either idle inventory or a stock out position every week. Considering most component manufacturers in India are SMEs/Mid market players, The ballooning costs from having a stock out/idel inventory position for weeks would drive most of them out of business! The manufacturer would have to look for a fresh supplier and again ensure stringent quality tests before his product can be accepted on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
PLC!!! so how do you think Ford is selling Ikons with Fiesta engines.
Read my earlier post on this same thread on manufacturing vs outsourcing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Knight View Post
@predatorwheelz
buddy your post cleared a lots of doubts I had deciding between the Swift VDi and the Getz Crdi. My heart always went for the Getz but head for the Swift Vdi.
There's no problem if you decide to go for the Getz CRDi. Management strategies are of no concern to end users like you and me. Getz CRDi is a competent car and will come with excellent customer support just like any other Hyundai.
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Old 8th March 2009, 16:48   #50
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Ford needs some quick bucks to save its life, so it is selling ikon D at such a price.. Hyundai is not in such a position.
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Old 8th March 2009, 18:05   #51
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Hyundai Accent with the 3 pot CRDI would be killer. Accent still looks much better than the Dezire and would be an instant success. Or better still plonk it in the Viva and trump dezire's sales. I believe the Ikon TDCi is selling in decent numbers now. More proof that no matter how dated a car, if its economical to run and maintain then its a runaway success in our country!
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Old 9th March 2009, 00:41   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
@Loving Alaap - some cool rhymes there -
and why should the D'zire remind us of the "famous rattle snake of India"??
I suppose you're implying that the D'zire develops enough rattles to make any self-respecting Rattle-Snake go silent or perhaps dumbfounded with envy?

-And by the way Alaap Ole' Bean, as far as Rattle Snakes are concerned, I'm not so sure there are any in Mera Bharat (Mahan) - need perhaps to hop across to the good ole' USof A to find one and check them rattles with those in the D'zire ??
I have applied the nickname of Rattle snake not only to Dzires but also the Swifts. Ask any BHPian Swift owners; everybody will say, it glides on road, drink less, quick, very sharp, but it is cramped & rattling every time. (just like rattle snake)

and by the way the "self respecting" rattle snakes are commonly found in rural India. in Gujarat, the local name is GUGHARO (means rattles)
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Old 9th March 2009, 01:25   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
- How do we fit the following into your lines of reasoning:-
(a) Getz CRDI's stratospheric pricing - relative to other cars in its segment?
(b) Hyundai's 'restrained' approach in promoting the Getz CRDI?
Refer to my earlier post in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
(d) Is the increased cost of the CRDI powerplant (due to the factors put forward by Predatorwheelz) responsible for the above or are we missing something else?
Most of the increased cost comes from the fact that CRDi engine+gearbox is imported & not manufactured here.
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Old 9th March 2009, 02:27   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Lets look at it from your viewpoint now. If indeed orders could be edited on a weekly basis, the manufacturer would be in a position to dictate terms as and when he wishes, asking the supplier for lower quantities whenver he foresaw a slump. How would the supplier be able to plan his working capital cycle (RM-WIP-FG, in laymens terms) then? Do you know that even something as inconsequential as a gasket has a 3 month working capital cycle? And if he indeed acts strongheaded and decides to manufacture a fixed quantity every week (regardless of what the manufacturer demands) he would be stuck with either idle inventory or a stock out position every week.

Read my earlier post on this same thread on manufacturing vs outsourcing.
since you are into jargon, look up JIT, 'just in time' and ERP tools used for inventory management. Nobody stockpiles inventory in this day and age.

could you share your source of info that Hyundai buys engines from outside?

If they are indeed outsourcing, then its time for them to start manufacturing. Diesel is here to say.

Last edited by Mpower : 9th March 2009 at 19:08.
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Old 10th March 2009, 20:19   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
since you are into jargon, look up JIT, 'just in time' and ERP tools used for inventory management. Nobody stockpiles inventory in this day and age.
Lean inventory management is definitely the mantra of our times, but there is an unavoidable inertia in the logistics system and not everybody is entirely into lean inventories beyond a certain point. For example, (although not a very appropriate comparison with automobobiles), in the field of aviation manufacturing, the typical lead time for imported components or systems is about 18 months or so and there is very limited flexibility to change the numbers ordered. So, beyond a reasonable point, this lean inventory thing can actually work against the system. But then that's aviation and there are associated factors such as the extreme technology involved, extent of QA, testing, certification, etc, all of which add to the logistics inertia and are not applicable to automobiles.

However, the one aspect common here with automobiles could be that for imported components - there is the unavoidable lead time, limited flexibility perhaps to change numbers ordered -especially for whole systems such as engines and gearboxes and the inevitable price factor.

And all this so far, appears to fit in with Iraghava and Predatorwheelz's arguments as well as the actual picture (Hyundai's pricing and marketing) on the ground.
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Old 10th March 2009, 22:09   #56
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@Predatorwheelz & @Iraghava - Nice reasoning.
@Steeroid & Mpower- I can see where are you people coming from.
The idea is great however after reading the whole thread i can understand it wont be implemented(atleast in the coming future).

@Predatorwheelz- I can see you are into banking but the knowledge about Hyundai and manufacturing is solid. Is it because you own a Verna or ?
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Old 12th March 2009, 11:24   #57
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Default Verna? na na!

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
@Predatorwheelz- I can see you are into banking but the knowledge about Hyundai and manufacturing is solid. Is it because you own a Verna or ?
Hehe. Nope, nothing to do with owning a Verna. The initial knowledge came from writing a paper on Automobile Industry Logistics during my MBA. Besides, previously I was in Gujarat, and was Relationship Manager to one of the country's largest auto component manufacturers (who also supplied to Hyundai)
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Old 12th March 2009, 12:36   #58
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Accent is very much an outdated car when it comes to looks. None among the current generation looks-savvy people will buy it. But it can have takers from the old Amby generation.
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Old 12th March 2009, 16:08   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Hehe. Nope, nothing to do with owning a Verna. The initial knowledge came from writing a paper on Automobile Industry Logistics during my MBA. Besides, previously I was in Gujarat, and was Relationship Manager to one of the country's largest auto component manufacturers (who also supplied to Hyundai)
That explains it.
I really wished such pricing was true for such a car. But then in India you don't get the best deals always.
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Old 12th March 2009, 17:01   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Accent is very much an outdated car when it comes to looks. None among the current generation looks-savvy people will buy it. But it can have takers from the old Amby generation.
Who says..? have you ever checked out the sales figures for GLE..?
Its still one of the most selling petrol sedans in 5 lac range...!
Looks are always subjective but majority can make them acceptable.. I personally feel its still one of the contemporary designs on road..
And about Amby... I am not from that generation so...you might know better...!
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