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Old 29th March 2009, 00:08   #331
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Talk about arrogance, this one is the best I have EVER come across.
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...they are into bhaigiri now.
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Originally Posted by Gagan.js View Post
you joined a car forum and made 2 posts, then threatened us...
Skoda Corporate's come across with just one thing till now - its attitude of ARROGANCE. How does a global co. actually manage to sustain such an attitude when faced with 40,000 members (and a few million readers) of a dedicated forum for car lovers, who habitually advise tens of thousands of other people on what car to buy? and whose collective might can bring the biggest of establishments to their knees? Don't Skoda even feel slightly scared?

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
The first court has given decision...
That's probably the first instance of their arrogance, pitting their supreme might against a customer who they think they can crush under their corporate boots (stiletto heels?), using the intricacies of the Indian legal system to appeal against a lower court's order, just so justice to the customer is delayed/denied. How unfortunate that Harish-ji is not a lawyer himself - if ever Skoda came to know that, they'd have resolved his issues a long, long time ago.

EDIT: This post should be moved to http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-users-17.html (Team-BHP stands for the TRUTH. But Skoda wants to “instigate” Team-BHP and its users!). Please oblige.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 29th March 2009 at 00:15.
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Old 29th March 2009, 00:20   #332
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Threat what's that we only know Threads and our moderators are intelligent enough to match right topic to right thread. So Skoda stay under limits of threads, you will be able to survive. Afterall its our money, we are the public and we know what to buy with our hard earned money.

We used to know skoda cars like "Fill it forget it" but after this incident "See it forget it"

Last edited by sam003 : 29th March 2009 at 00:21.
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Old 29th March 2009, 00:23   #333
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Only a random thought before hitting the sack:

Would Skoda have the nerve to behave like this in a market such as the United States? Would they have gotten away with such horrendous standards of service? Would they be able to sustain themselves after so many unhappy customers? Would they have the guts to walk into a public forum and attack the freedom of speech of Americans, something that they hold so close to heart?

I'd say it would have ended up as the most discussed story on American talk shows (another that they hold so close to heart )!
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Old 29th March 2009, 00:32   #334
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Would Skoda have the nerve to behave like this in a market such as the United States? Would they have gotten away with such horrendous standards of service? Would they be able to sustain themselves after so many unhappy customers?
The US judicial system considers the defendant guilty unless proved innocent. The Indian judicial system considers the defendant innocent unless proved guilty. That'd be why Skoda will behave differently in the US and in India.
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Old 29th March 2009, 00:35   #335
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Nope they wouldn't GTO but I'm getting the feeling it is Skoda India who are the crooks, they are the ones introducing old models in the market with lousy services.

In the email someone posted somewhere above(so many posts, lost track heh), Skoda and VW apparently don't have control of what goes on here. They only sit pretty while the guys at skoda India are taking the consumers for a ride.

Hopefully this can be a wake up call for other companies to tie up loose ends and take the Indian car buyers seriously.

Hey if are lousy courts are not going to help you, come to the internet where justice is served(through word of mouth defamation!) :

Sadly our news is full of reality show crap that things like these are not showcased unless one channel starts and the others copy.
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Old 29th March 2009, 00:46   #336
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No reply from them? Heh, tail between legs and bye-bye. Any updates from harishv apart from his intentions of turning his suit into a class-action?
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Old 29th March 2009, 01:32   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The US judicial system considers the defendant guilty unless proved innocent. The Indian judicial system considers the defendant innocent unless proved guilty. That'd be why Skoda will behave differently in the US and in India.
Sorry to disagree, both the US and India as well as a few others like UK, Singapore, Australia, Canada etc. follow the same system known as the 'common law system' (jargon).

In all these countries, the accused is considered innocent till proven guilty. In fact, it is in India, that some deviation is made, particularly in the case of offences against women and, the presumption of innocence is toned down.

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No reply from them? Heh, tail between legs and bye-bye. Any updates from harishv apart from his intentions of turning his suit into a class-action?
'Class actions' are a peculiarity of the US tort law practice. In class action matters, several claims are clubbed and tried together as a single case, a common judgement is passed. Cases or claims from across the country are tried in one court, territorial jurisdiction is given the go-by. In the old days tort lawyers would pick the court that they thought was most favourable to them and have the cases tried there, this was known as 'forum shopping'. In the past decade the US has passed legislation curbing the 'forum shopping' and other practices that made 'class actions' the monsters that they were. Another difference between India and the US is that in the US, the lawyers would fund the suit i.e. bear all the expenses including investigation and research costs, paying for expert witnesses etc. class action suits are also notoriously expensive. In return the lawyers would get a (major) percentage of the damages paid out - hence the Learjets! Indian regulations prohibit lawyers from funding litigation, fees too are normally capped. Class actions became very lucrative for tort lawyers in the US due to the disproportionately high damages that used to be awarded - the amount of damages too has come down courtesy judicial reform and class actions are no longer as lucrative as they used to be. In India, the amount of damages never reached the stratosperic levels that it did in the US.

In India, though suits may be bunched together and tried as a batch, they will still be tried seperately and seperate decrees will be passed. Furthermore, for a class action - the cause of action must be the same - e.g. the Bhopal Gas leak or - damage caused by a defective drug / pollution. For a class action against a car manufacturer by customers - there should be a single defect that has caused damage to the customers e.g. defective air-conditioning causing lung disease to a large number of customers, or defective brakes causing accidents etc. If I have a defective brake, someone else has defective suspension and yet another has defective steering - each is a seperate cause and will have to be tried seperately unless the suit says that the cars are uniformly of poor quality and the poor quality itself is attacked. To do this, a single suit has to be filed with several plaintiffs alleging the same defect and similar damages, it is better to file seperate suits than to do this. India is also stricter on territorial jurisdiction - e.g. If a manufacturere is in Delhi, I bought the car in Hyderabad, got it serviced regularly in Bangalore and, it broke down in Chennai and I took it to the A.S.S. there. I could file the suit or complaint in (a) Hyderabad where I bought the car, or (b) In Bangalore where I got the car serviced regularly, or (c) In Chennai where it broke down and where it was taken to the A.S.S., or (d) Delhi where the manufacturer is located. I could not file my case in Mumbai or Kolkatta.
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Old 29th March 2009, 01:57   #338
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If not now , i don't know when would be a better time to suggest that the T-bhp forum(page) picture be changed to Rudra's truly wonderful Amby.

At all other times , this suggestion would seem biased, but I'm keen know what the mods and GTO's philosophy is on sticking to the Skoda photo-tag.My personal opinion has been that the RED car has always overpowered the Team-Bhp logo.

Lol, i just read through Mr Raveendra's post. Sirji ! , open a firm i say :-). If it doesnt work out , considering this Skoda case , atleast we can make a desi version of boston legal and recover our money , lol .

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Old 29th March 2009, 02:04   #339
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Ravveendrra... There's a heap of stuff there I never understood before. Thanks!
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Old 29th March 2009, 02:12   #340
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Sorry to disagree...
Thank you so much, Ravveendrra, I stand corrected as well as enlightened on a lot of legal issues that I had serious misconceptions about.
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Old 29th March 2009, 02:19   #341
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Cross-posting from here (Team-BHP stands for the TRUTH. But Skoda wants to “instigate” Team-BHP and its users!), only to clarify.

The Team-BHP Support can confirm that the userid "Skoda Corporate" is an actual Skoda representative. The email address associated with the account (and a confirmed one at that) is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@skoda-auto.co.in.
Hi guys.

Love you GTO, Team-BHP Support for that.

For a few moments, based on a couple of responses from our members, even I thought probably someone might have taken advantage and pulled a fast one.

Although heart of hearts I was sure it was Meghna or someone from Skoda based on certain key words used. Being a direct beneficiary of this faux pas by Skoda, I thought there was a possibility of fingers pointing at me for this.

Thanks for the conclusion regulators, that it was indeed a Skoda representative who responded.

Also it would have been a wonderful opportunity for Skoda to have seconded the apprehensions and try to wriggle out of it.

Normally_crazy - Love you for introducing me to Team-BHP.
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Old 29th March 2009, 02:43   #342
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I m glad to know that we as a team, is powerful to move a company like VW. That means they are accepting the fact that views and comments of T-BHP members are considered to be more genuine and reliable than their colorful full-page ads in dailies and channels.Thanks to Skoda to remind us about our power. Personally I would be more glad to be having a Team-BHP sticker over your Skoda badge on my boot.

Now as per the Skoda rep, they want to take it legally agianst Team-BHP. But they forgot the fact that this forum is not catogorized under public media. This is a moderated open forum of likely minded people who reveal their views and ideas to help each other to buy and maintain automobiles irrespective of their make and brand. All the views expressed here are by individuals and they are not rewarded by team bhp by any means to do that. So its upto the individuals here to decide what to discuss and what need not to be.

Also Skoda should think how your internal mails and data published on a public forum. How it reached to a customer? That shows the Skoda employees itself are not loyal to company. Then you expect the entire customer community should be loyal to you irrespective of all the issues they face with the cars you sell. Looks like your corporate is of double standard here.

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Old 29th March 2009, 07:23   #343
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[quote=Ravveendrra;1235349]Sorry to disagree, both the US and India as well as a few others like UK, Singapore, Australia, Canada etc. follow the same system known as the 'common law system' (jargon).

In all these countries, the accused is considered innocent till proven guilty. In fact, it is in India, that some deviation is made, particularly in the case of offences against women and, the presumption of innocence is toned down.
[quote]

Not disagreeing. Just adding that presumption of innocence (innocent
until proven guilty) holds only for criminal cases in most countries, not
for civil cases. Likewise "proven beyond reasonable doubt" is only for
criminal cases, not civil cases.
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'Class actions' are a peculiarity of the US tort law practice.
You are coupling "class action" and tort law. I think you can have class action without tort & tort without class action.

Many countries have something similiar to class action - like India has public interest litigation - which is "class action" of a kind.
Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 29th March 2009, 07:50   #344
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Ravveendrra .. you Rock !!
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Old 29th March 2009, 12:37   #345
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In UK, I believe, civil cases are subject to the balance of probability, which is a step or two down from the very rigorous beyond reasonable doubt of criminal law.
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