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Old 28th September 2009, 16:59   #166
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The 1.4 T-Jet should be launched as soon as possible.

In the Linea, it will remove the car's only weak point against the ANHC, namely being underpowered. The 1.4 T-Jet is a little bit more powerful on paper (120bhp v/s 116 bhp), but a lot more powerful on the road (I'm not sure what the torque comparison is, but I'm sure there's a big difference) than the 1.5 iVTEC in the ANHC.

In the Punto, it will be a worthy successor to the Palio 1.6, and should win over a lot of people who are waiting for the new Polo. Even if the VW Polo comes out with the 1.2 TSi engine (which seems unlikely), the 1.4 T-Jet will clearly be a quicker car, and probably cost less as well.

Powerful engines may not sell in very large numbers, but they help win over the journalists and enthusiasts (like us), who in turn are consulted by ordinary folk when they go out to buy a car.
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Old 28th September 2009, 17:25   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
The 1.4 T-Jet should be launched as soon as possible.
Man, a Linea with 120 BHP under the hood will ROCK! The car literally begs for more power, with that high speed ride & handling. Something like a cheaper Skoda RS (well, almost).

Let me see if I can do some convincing of my own with the boys @ Fiat. Its doing only 900 cars a month right now, this could prove a shot in the arm. Along with a 1.6 MJD of course.
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Old 28th September 2009, 18:18   #168
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Let me see if I can do some convincing of my own with the boys @ Fiat. Its doing only 900 cars a month right now, this could prove a shot in the arm. Along with a 1.6 MJD of course.
Great! It could do wonders if the Punto comes with the VGT motor. Only wondering if its rather early for the VGT to be launched in the Punto?
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Old 28th September 2009, 21:37   #169
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One more reason in favor of ANHC is it gives good mileage even after being a powerful motor. (10kmpl worst-case in city). Same as the Linea 1.4 FIRE.

I hope 1.4TJet's mileage would match 1.4 FIRE atleast.
I am not an expert, but adding a turbo to existing engine would improve power for same amount of fuel consumed.

so 1.4TJet @ 120bhp would really trounce the ANHC engine/performance/handling wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post

In the Linea, it will remove the car's only weak point against the ANHC, namely being underpowered. The 1.4 T-Jet is a little bit more powerful on paper (120bhp v/s 116 bhp), but a lot more powerful on the road (I'm not sure what the torque comparison is, but I'm sure there's a big difference) than the 1.5 iVTEC in the ANHC.
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Old 29th September 2009, 00:02   #170
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OT: Fiat has gotten a lot of flak on TBHP saying that Linea's engines are insufficient for a big car like Linea.

I just happened to see the specs of VW Jetta (which retails at high 13 lakhs and above segment) and here's what it had
Jetta (P): 102@5600 [1343 kg]
Jetta (D): 105@4000 [1420 kg]

Comparing Power-to-weight ratios (ps/ton):
Linea (P): 72.5
Jetta (P): 75.3

Linea (D): 66.6
Jetta (D): 73.9

I am surprised nobody has brought this point up. This calls for a huge for VW.
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Old 29th September 2009, 01:28   #171
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I dont think the VW Jetta is even a contender. The car is a generation old, and the engines in it are probably two generations old. If you put the two cars side-by-side, the 13L Jetta gets completely outclassed by the 7.5L Linea.

The reason why people keep bringing up the point about the Linea being underpowered is because that's the only drawback in an otherwise wonderful car. I think its absolutely shameful for a car as good looking as the Linea to take more than 17 seconds to get to 100 km/h. And it makes you wonder why Fiat would make a car that handles so well if it takes that long to reach a high enough speed to enjoy that fantastic handling.
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Old 29th September 2009, 02:50   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Man, a Linea with 120 BHP under the hood will ROCK! The car literally begs for more power, with that high speed ride & handling. Something like a cheaper Skoda RS (well, almost).

Let me see if I can do some convincing of my own with the boys @ Fiat. Its doing only 900 cars a month right now, this could prove a shot in the arm. Along with a 1.6 MJD of course.
Here goes my vote for this endeavour. Am sure there is a long list of FIAT fans on the forum and all will agree that an engine with a punch is an absolute necessity for all FIAT models. Its a major USP that they are not making use off.
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Old 29th September 2009, 11:10   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Let me see if I can do some convincing of my own with the boys @ Fiat. Its doing only 900 cars a month right now, this could prove a shot in the arm. Along with a 1.6 MJD of course.
to this effort.
And similar engines/tune in the Punto as well. After all, these are the same guys who put out the Palio 1.6
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Old 29th September 2009, 11:22   #174
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Looking at the reactions to the Jetta, are we not expecting too much from the Fiat (& Tata) stable. I have had this feeling in almost all the threads that I have read with regards to Indian manufacturers.
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Old 29th September 2009, 16:40   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
OT: Fiat has gotten a lot of flak on TBHP saying that Linea's engines are insufficient for a big car like Linea.

I just happened to see the specs of VW Jetta (which retails at high 13 lakhs and above segment) and here's what it had
Jetta (P): 102@5600 [1343 kg]
Jetta (D): 105@4000 [1420 kg]

Comparing Power-to-weight ratios (ps/ton):
Linea (P): 72.5
Jetta (P): 75.3

Linea (D): 66.6
Jetta (D): 73.9

I am surprised nobody has brought this point up. This calls for a huge for VW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
I dont think the VW Jetta is even a contender. The car is a generation old, and the engines in it are probably two generations old. If you put the two cars side-by-side, the 13L Jetta gets completely outclassed by the 7.5L Linea.

The reason why people keep bringing up the point about the Linea being underpowered is because that's the only drawback in an otherwise wonderful car. I think its absolutely shameful for a car as good looking as the Linea to take more than 17 seconds to get to 100 km/h. And it makes you wonder why Fiat would make a car that handles so well if it takes that long to reach a high enough speed to enjoy that fantastic handling.
Hey lets not go overboard, the The Jetta diesel goes from 0-100 in 11.xx seconds, it has the DSG clutch that and 6 speed Auto that make shifting much faster and smoother, plus a whole lot of features and road stability that the Linea can only dream about.

The Linea is undoutably a great VFM car but one only has to sit in the German Jetta once or drive it for just 5 mins to experience the substantial difference in it take it way above the city, civic, corolla etc in many aspects.

This is not to belittle the linea - It is a very very good car, but to compare it with the Jetta even in current engine form is not fair, Jetta is clearly a class appart even in the same segment. It could have been about 1.2- 2 L cheaper and made better financial sense, but then thats how it is with the german cars. The Linea build quality is great and better than the Honda in many ways except the plastic feel and finish, but still no way is it even close to the Jetta.
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Old 29th September 2009, 16:48   #176
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it might be a bit OT but the fact is that we still dont get the best engines here and therefore the power to weight ratio will be de-prioritized.

also our silly excise breaks and tax laws will continue to ensure that we get underpowered vehicles since most manufacturers want good sales numbers and for this to happen in a price sensitive mass market like India, they have to pay attention to pricing.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 19:24   #177
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Guys,

As far as I know the Linea IS NOT coming out with the 1.6 Diesel engine. I have confirmed this from more than one source working with / associated with Fiat.

But what is coming is the 1.4 L TJET (120 bhp). Deliveries I am told will start in April 10

And as far as I know, no Linea anywhere in the world comes with a 1.6L Diesel. So I would be surprised if they launch it in India without launching anywhere else first.

Amogh
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Old 2nd October 2009, 20:17   #178
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I read it ACI that the 1.6 linea uses gearbox from GM. So the 1.6 linea is not expected before second half of 2010. Fiat is currently developing gearbox for 1.6 linea.

The 1.4 will be good to have any given day. It will be definitely better than what Fiat offers us currently. I hope it is not detuned.
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Old 2nd October 2009, 23:59   #179
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@amogh, agoswami

Linea already comes with a 1.6MJD in Turkey.
It has 105bhp and 290nm torque.

There is also a 120bhp version of the 1.6MJD too. (which is not yet implemented in a Linea anywhere)
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Old 3rd October 2009, 01:46   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
...I read it ACI that the 1.6 linea uses gearbox from GM...
Well, looks like ACI got it wrong. The c530 (6&5 speed manual gearbox) transmission used with 1.6 MJD (105bhp &120bhp) is not sourced from GM. It was developed by FPT and is manufactured at Fiat's Verrone plant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
...Fiat is currently developing gearbox for 1.6 linea...
The new gearbox being developed is the Robotised (6 speed automatic) version of the existing M32 gearbox. This will be used for 1.6 MJD (120bhp).

Note: The manual version of M32 is mated to the T-Jet 1.4 belting out both (120bhp & 150bhp).
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