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Old 26th March 2009, 20:47   #31
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Tats Motors might be currently reeling,but they'll rake up crores from the Nano bookings only..the Nano selling in full force will show them the light.
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Old 26th March 2009, 21:05   #32
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Considering this report
Does not generate much confidence looking at current sponsorship.

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United's four-year, US $100 million contract with American International Group runs until May 2010 but the insurance giant said in January it would not be renewing the deal.
This group (AIG) is already under the water.
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Old 26th March 2009, 21:47   #33
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It will be entirely up to the Tatas to decide what they let go and what they retain and nurture.
Currently, the automotive division is an albatross around their neck. But they have a finger in many pies that T-BHP does not discuss.

They will survive!
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Old 26th March 2009, 22:02   #34
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This thread is only speculation and tata motors has tata sons at its back which has enough capital to save any group company from sinking.
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Old 26th March 2009, 22:22   #35
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Thumbs up Tata - the time is now

I totally agree with RRsteer. The group has made some very major investments in the recent past and strugling under the burden. But if their work ethic (i.e. Best Failed Idea Of The Month) is any indicator, they are more likely to innovate (so much like the Nano) and come out of it swell.

After all, often it is people who get down to the bottom of things, who come out on top later.

With the Nano, Tata has re-written the vendor-OEM manufacturing equations. This should, in due course of time bring down the cost of manufacturing of ALL cars - even the competitors'.

Political persecution notwithstanding, Ratan Naval Tata cannot has to, and will, go miles before he retires.

Carry on RatanJi.
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Old 26th March 2009, 22:47   #36
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Originally Posted by ahuja365 View Post
This thread is only speculation and .....
LOL, so are many many other threads on the portal!
This is our entertainment!
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Old 26th March 2009, 23:17   #37
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[quote=NetfreakBombay;1232096]TATA's Credit rating is pathetic at the moment.

Its rating is B+ (Subprime, Highly Speculative)

Forget the ratings sir - Lehman was given top ratings before it went bust. The raters need to be rated. Anyway that is OT.

Also not sure if the thread starter really understands the meaning of going bust. If JLR deal does not work out and keeps hurting them they will sell it off just like they acquired it - they might have to take some losses - but well it surely cant go bust
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Old 27th March 2009, 02:07   #38
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Why are we asking this question ?

Because Tata Motors request for UK governments assistance to JLR in term of loan ?

Tata Motors is asking for this assistance because the sales in Auto Sectors have gone down, therefore they are having lot of idle employees and capacity.

Solution to this is simple, :- lay off. But neither the UK government or people of UK would like that. Neither would Tata Motors. Therefore Tata Motors is asking for assistance that will help lot of JLR employees to keep its job.

If JLR wont get assistance, then many Britishers will lose their job but JLR will survive.

If JLR gets assistance then many of its employees wont be laid off.

In times of reduced demand this is quite normal.

Now to those who are questioning the ethics / morality of assistance by UK's tax payer money to tax firm owned by Indians :-

JLR contributes to UK's economy.
JLR pays taxes like any other individual britisher.
JLR's employees earn and spend their salary in UK furthers contributing to UK's economy.
JLR does the R&D which helps UK.

Therefore , like any other Britishers it too deserves assistance if UK government expect it not to lay off its idle employees(Which is needed for present economic condition).

And for Tata Motors to fail, the Tata Sons have to fail, TCS have to fail, Tata Steel have to fail , Tata Chemical have to fail, Tata Elxi have to fail, Trent have to fail, Tata Communication have to fail, Tata Indicom have to fail, and rest of the 160 companies owned by Tata Sons have to fail.


Do we see that happening ?

BTW Tata Motors have secured some finance from LIC and SBI, they have also sold some parts of their telecom companies to NTT Docomo and some Tower Management company.

And they will make at least ~5000 crore just by bookings of Tata Nano


SO No Tata Motors wont go bust.
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Old 27th March 2009, 02:27   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csnanjappa View Post
S&P cuts Tata Motors ratings over cash flows - India Business - Business - The Times of India

MUMBAI: Even as the country and the Tata group celebrat the launch of Nano, global ratings major S&P put a spanner in the feel-good momentum.
On Tuesday, S&P cut ratings on Tata Motors to `B+' From `BB-'. Worse, it has also kept the company on ratings watch with negative implications, indicating there could be further cut in its ratings.

The rating action follows deterioration in Tata Motors' cash flows and other related parameters on a consolidated basis in an adverse operating environment, an S&P release said. These factors have combined with significantly higher debt levels of the company, which could further affect its credit rating, the release said.
Do these guys belong to the same category/breed who gave the likes of Lehmann Brothers and other banks that went bust, as well as the paper that is now referred to as 'toxic assets' in polite society - the Five star * * * * *, AAAAAAA+++++++++ etc ratings?

If they had anything to do with the rating of the debt, banks etc. before the bank failures, sub-prime crisis etc. one would be best advised to take their ratings with a huge PINCH of salt.


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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Such threads should be deleted

TATA is not going bust

crap rumours
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I agree.. the threah should be closed. They dont deserve this after the Nano.
Forget it - we love to bash Tata. (In the 'best to bash sweepstakes' it is a neck and neck race between Tata, Fiat and Skoda.)

On a more serious note, this is a good thread to discuss business, economics etc.

With reference to the Nano - let us also not forget Tatas' bold decicion to move out of Nandigram (WB). I loved their understated manner and dignified behaviour as well as their principled stand when they had to abandon their facility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
Tata also has to pay 8.5 % interest for Tata Nano bookings in case waiting period is long. So this also adds financial burden as there is a large demand-supply mismatch.
Even with the interest of 8.5% it should work out, as commercial loans are at a higher rate.

Just my 2 bits worth - I think that TML and Tata group will be able to ride out this rough patch. Their growth has not been too fast or explosive. At today's valuations it might seem that they paid more, but at that time the price seemed right. The lean patch or recession has to end. The companies who have the production facilities when the economy is coming out of a recession stand to gain the most.

Cheers,
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Old 27th March 2009, 02:56   #40
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I'm not sure why anyone should be offended by this threa. After all the titles say "IS Tata motors about to go bust?" NOT "TATA motors is going bust". Most people tend to worry when a company has liquidity problems, even Ford doesn't have that YET. Also in the UK media we are hearing that TATA group won't stand behind TATA motors. TATA motors must "save itself". That's why they argue the loan is crucia to "saving jobs".

TATA is the one giving out mixed messages. Of course people ask difficult questions when they can't pay suppliers. Oh and btw I didsn't spot this had been posted before so sorry about that, obviously someone else was concerned too.
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Old 27th March 2009, 07:45   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanshughia View Post
Forget the ratings sir - Lehman was given top ratings before it went bust. The raters need to be rated. Anyway that is OT.
Ratings have serious impact. Whether ratings themselves are reliable or not is a different question.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
It will be entirely up to the Tatas to decide what they let go and what they retain and nurture.
Currently, the automotive division is an albatross around their neck.
They will survive!

Can't agree more. Even in a worst case scenerio, TML is not fightign for Survival. At worst they will have to let go of some aquisitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Do these guys belong to the same category/breed who gave the likes of Lehmann Brothers and other banks that went bust, as well as the paper that is now referred to as 'toxic assets' in polite society - the Five star * * * * *, AAAAAAA+++++++++ etc ratings?

If they had anything to do with the rating of the debt, banks etc. before the bank failures, sub-prime crisis etc. one would be best advised to take their ratings with a huge PINCH of salt.
It does not matter at this point of time.

Lets say there is a Debt fund [E.g. Pension fund]that has mandate to invest in "prime"
companies.

As per the mandate of the fund, it would have to sell current borrowings of TML and would not give any fresh money to TML.

And any bank would want a much bigger guaranty from "subprime" borrower and would ask for much higher rate of interest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
And they will make at least ~5000 crore just by bookings of Tata Nano
Isn't that ~500 crore (5 lakh bookings, Each at 1 lakh)?

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 27th March 2009 at 07:47.
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Old 27th March 2009, 08:30   #42
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and the point i find downright hilarious is that everyone forgets we indians are jugaadu.

Permit me to explain. Rather than lock up my money for a year or two in getting 8.75% interest, I would much rather, hunt down the lucky nano owners, and give them 15% commission instead. When the wide world knows that not more than a few thousand nanos will hit the market in the first year, expecting 5 lakh bookings ASAP is seriously optimistic.

Of course, in the interest of the banks, of tata and the indian automotive sector in general, I'd be glad to be proven wrong.
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Old 27th March 2009, 10:01   #43
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Thumbs down I am sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post

Isn't that ~500 crore (5 lakh bookings, Each at 1 lakh)?

And I read my own message again, it is humiliating.
So many grammatical and spelling mistakes.....

I was burning mid-night oil to prepare for Exam.
I am sorry TeamBHP.

:
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Old 27th March 2009, 10:53   #44
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I think the Nano will change the fortunes of the company
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Old 27th March 2009, 13:11   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revhappy View Post
I think the Nano will change the fortunes of the company
Really? Going by the calculations showed below, the best case is 500 crore addition to Topline of a company which nearly 24,000 crores last year! Pittance - the impact of Nano is really 1.5 years away. Purely from bottom line perspective, the margin of 5% is next to nothing for TML (I wonder what is it for the dealers).

The real trick for TML turnaround as someone pointed out is Commercial Vehcile sale.
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