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View Poll Results: Should Team-BHP stand up for its right to the freedom of speech? For the TRUTH?
YES 3037 99.35%
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Old 27th March 2009, 16:30   #16
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In fact Meghna, to add to the above the concerned Sales representative nearly abused my wife, asked her to go to court, when she was trying to resolve the matter by trying to talk to someone else at Skoda!

Car buying is an occasion for family celebration next only to buying a house, but for us it turned to be our worst nightmare.

Thanks to Skoda and its dealers.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:05   #17
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I think Harishv has been very kind to you. I react to management/marketing spin language in much the same way that I react to mosquito bites, and if your skin is tough enough (of course it is; you are in marketing!) you'll already have found out that I'm not the only one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
Hi, I'm the Marketing Communications Manager at Skoda India...
Positive spin and can't-comment. It really is of no use to anyone.

Here's a suggestion for you: try will ensure that this awful mess is resolved to our customer's satisfaction by the end of next week.

Could that be so difficult for [the corporate] you?

Here's another piece of free consultancy for you: you do not get point for listening. You get points for taking on board and doing.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:26   #18
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now there is a "legal threat" to team-bhp users for publishing facts? this is crazy! If the treatment given to Skoda clients is going to be offensive .. then duh.. is it not going to sound offensive in words!! Every post in this forum is going to give a worry to a Skoda customer and keep any prospective clients away.

Even Toyota / Honda admit their mistakes. Then why cant Skoda, not even a tenth their size admit it!!
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:27   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
I have been advised to inform you that the hosting or publishing of such information (which , does not represent all of the facts) would instigate both Team-BHP as well as the various users in the ongoing court case.
Hello Meghna,

I'm just curious. I'm wondering about the language of the information you have offered Team-BHP under advice.

I'm not sure what it means to instigate someone in an ongoing court case.

Because the hosting or publishing of anything may instigate people or a company to go to court, but does not instigate them in a court case. That's just bad English.

Here's how the word is used: Bad after sales service does instigate people to act.

Perhaps you mean to say implicate someone in the case - that would make more sense.

Sorry, but just wondering how your "advisors" and marketing communication people mixed up their legal parlance. Must be some mistake.

Some of us love English, it is a wonderful language.

Hey - Thad, funny you let that one go just like that.

Oh well, sorry about that intrusion, carry on, we're all reading.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:28   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
Hi there,
I have been advised to forward to you the following notice pertaining to this thread of the forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rned-year.html

I have been advised to inform you that the hosting or publishing of such information (which , does not represent all of the facts) would instigate both Team-BHP as well as the various users in the ongoing court case.

It saddens us here at Skoda that things have escalated to this point and we have tried to engage but the truth is that some of the comments are now extremely offensive and defamatory. They are personal atacks on our company, staff and me as an individual.


.
Was that a threat. If so as an honest, open no affiliations forum, it will not wash here.

Skoda completely deserves the bad rep, as surely as some of the other automobile manufacturers deserve the good rep.
We have had too many experiences go wrong with your esteemed dealerships/organization to think otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Hello Meghna,

I'm just curious. I'm wondering about the language of the information you have offered Team-BHP under advice.

I'm not sure what it means to instigate someone in an ongoing court case.

Because the hosting or publishing of anything may instigate people or a company to go to court, but does not instigate them in a court case. That's just bad English.

Here's how the word is used: Bad after sales service does instigate people to act.
Kindly review the below thread for more information.


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...r-english.html (A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English)
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:38   #21
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I am speaking without taking sides of either Skoda or Harshv. I don't know the case, I haven't read the thread, I don't care what the case is, I don't care how it gets decided. However, I am reacting to Skoda's attempts to limit the freedom of speech and to arcane indian laws that it is attempting to rely upon to do this.

Before I proceed, I would suggest to the team-bhp administration to allow Skoda free posting rights so they can have their own say and so they don't feel that their right to defend themselves have been denied. They have as much right to speak freely as any of us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post

I have been advised to inform you that the hosting or publishing of such information (which , does not represent all of the facts) would instigate both Team-BHP as well as the various users in the ongoing court case.
Sounds like Skoda is trying to scare Team-BHP using legal language.

India has draconian laws prohibiting the news media from publishing any materials relevant to an ongoing case. However, the courts cannot prevent private persons from discussing the case in public. The question is whether Indian courts would decided that webforums count as "publishing" and therefore subject to the restrictions that Skoda is threatening team-bhp with, or, if the courts would hold that webforums are a public discussion domain and not a publication.

However, I would not count on Indian judges to rule in favor of open exchange of information. in fact, I would count upon them to take every measure they can make rulings that extend their control and influence.

However, the internet is unstoppable and the jurisdiction of the Indian courts does not extend outside India's borders. I would advise those who wish to discuss this matter to contact someone outside India to set up a temporary discussion forum for this purpose, which will be outside the jurisdiction of the Indian courts, but as part of the web, will be accessible to web users in India. Then the only recourse they will have is to get a nationwide ban on the new site, but there are ways around that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
We have tried very hard to engage but users are simply not being reasonable or letting us partake in the forum and allowing us to be heard.
I can only guess that the limits placed on you partaking in the forum relate to the rule that requires the first 50 posts of any new user to be approved by a moderator. If I were you, I would request the forum administration to waive that rule for you so that you may participate freely.

However, I must say that I view this as an attempt by Skoda PR to stop discussion that is harmful to Skoda, and implies a desire on the part of Skoda to suppress freedom of speech. That the Indian courts assist in this supression does not change the fact that Skoda is trying to prevent people from talking freely.

How convenient it is to stop people talking just by filing a court case in 5 minutes and at the cost of a few rupees.

I would encourage everyone to show both Skoda and the Indian judicial system that the internet is changing the world paradigm on the exchange of information and the arcane laws regarding supression of information are now obsolete.

I don't whether Skoda is right or wrong, whether they have been treated fairly on unfairly. But I am angry at Skoda's attempt to stop open discussion and their use of legal threats.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:48   #22
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Quote:
Hi there,
I hear that there are disgruntled customers and we are doing our best to provide a consistently good service level.

As I have mentioned before, please get in touch with our customer services representatives who will be able to help you on any other matters not relating to the current court case.

I have been advised to forward to you the following notice pertaining to this thread of the forum.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rned-year.html

I have been advised to inform you that the hosting or publishing of such information (which , does not represent all of the facts) would instigate both Team-BHP as well as the various users in the ongoing court case.

It saddens us here at Skoda that things have escalated to this point and we have tried to engage but the truth is that some of the comments are now extremely offensive and defamatory. They are personal atacks on our company, staff and me as an individual.

We have tried very hard to engage but users are simply not being reasonable or letting us partake in the forum and allowing us to be heard.

Skoda India is a highly reputable company and does not entertain any kind of foul practices by their dealers. In fact, Skoda India is an active member of the society for indian automobile manufacturers who are against any conterfeiting in the market.

It is very simple- all of the facts are not represented here and we have been informed that from a legal standpoint, we cannot disclose them as doing so may affect the outcome of the case.

It is somewhat confusing to us that Mr. Harsih Kanchan feels he can!

Please contact customer services with any concerns or issues and we will inform you all of te outcome of the case.

best,

Meghna.
Excellent. Now Skoda wants the Indian public to shut up and endure such shoddy customer service. It would do well for you to remember that you are doing business in India, where free speech is one of our fundamental rights. We will not cow down to your arrogance and relent from protesting till justice is done to Mr Harish Kanchan. Such pathetic attempts to quieten the Indian public will only result in the decibel levels rising against Skoda.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:51   #23
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PS. I would advise Skoda to back off and just resolve the case. The internet is more powerful than Skoda. Right now, its just a few people here. If they push it, they could end up with a somebody creating a website like "Skoda-are-thieves.com", based outside India, but spread through forums like this and email, inviting everyone who has complaints against Skoda to send their comments. Then it could publish all those comments, not give Skoda any chance to reply. Then that website could be mirrored around the world and Skoda would have no ability to get every single one shut down.

And it Could become a phenomenon, attracting people from every market that Skoda has a presence in, people would be posting posting links of facebook and myspace and SMSing the links to their friends, and next thing Skoda will know, it will have a huge PR problem on its hands.

Skoda should not try to use indian laws to try and supress the power of the internet. It could backfire very badly.

For example, I could right now create a page on facebook, Orkut, MySpace about this issue, post the links here, send them to all my contacts, ask them to send it on, ask people here to send those links on. and there wouldn't be anything Skoda India could do about it.

Again, Skoda Corporate, do not underestimate the power of the internet. Instead, go back to your bosses and think about how to do some damage control and settle the issue without sparking an internet war against Skoda.

If you are paid to do PR for Skoda, I could create such a PR nightmare for you so quickly, your firm would get fired within a week. I am not saying I will. But I could if I wanted to.

DOn't mess with the freedom of the internet. You will get badly hurt. You people need to understand the threats and the opportunities the internet creates for you, and devise a strategy to address them.

Going around making threats in such a clumsy fashion out of a misguided idea that Skoda can stop internet discussion is going to backfire on you
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:54   #24
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How about sending this link to Top Gear. Would love to hear Jeremy's take on this! Yeah, send him a notice Skoda. That should be FUN!
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:57   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
It saddens us here at Skoda that things have escalated to this point and we have tried to engage but the truth is that some of the comments are now extremely offensive and defamatory. They are personal atacks on our company, staff and me as an individual.
Offensive? Defamatory? Attacks? Where???? Please show me an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
We have tried very hard to engage but users are simply not being reasonable or letting us partake in the forum and allowing us to be heard.
You call two posts trying Very Hard?? I guess a Skoda Owner should call two calls to your customer service to sort a problem "tried VERY HARD". Request you to put in more efforts and try to be seriously genuine this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
Skoda India is a highly reputable company and does not entertain any kind of foul practices by their dealers. In fact, Skoda India is an active member of the society for indian automobile manufacturers who are against any conterfeiting in the market.

Meghna.
. In that case stop worrying about this, it will go away, i.e. if Skoda is genuinely not responsible!!
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:57   #26
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Harbir

I think the damage is already done. They should not have come on Team-Bhp and issued such threats. It has lost all respect and enraged so many people on Team-Bhp who are so passionate about automobiles.
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Old 27th March 2009, 17:58   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasher26 View Post
Even Toyota / Honda admit their mistakes. Then why cant Skoda, not even a tenth their size admit it!!
And now they want to threaten us huh!!! duh!!! That's why they will never reach the scales peaked by Honda or Toyota. Even Hyundai being a Korean Company who makes 'cheap' cars in the US market is known for their 5 year - 100,000 miles warranty & relatively lower cost of ownership, nevermind the "Snob" value. That's how they all have come up. To see the post by Meghna is really disappointing. For a moment when Harish said that we should wait and listen to her view too, i was gullible enough to be fooled for a moment that wait... there is still light at the end of the tunnel, only here the tunnel never ends!
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Old 27th March 2009, 18:04   #28
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hey, can somebody save the entire contents of this thread so that it can republished elsewhere in case team-BHP is forced to delete it?

EDIT: ok, I have saved the entire thread so far. If this thread is deleted, I will make sure all the contents published so far are republished in a site outside India. I have a web host that can take vbulletin based webforums, so I can set up a new forum just for the discussion of this. IF this thread disappears and you would like to assist in taking up the issue via republication elsewhere, help with setting up the forum, etc, send me a PM.

PS. this is not an attempt to set up a rival to Team-BHP so our guys needn't be concerned about it. I am taking this up for us, for the idea of the freedom of the internet, as a resistance to corporations and governments trying to supress free exchange of ideas and information through their economic, judicial and political clout.
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Old 27th March 2009, 18:05   #29
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1. I have put up the link of the above sotry in my Facebook's 'What am I doing' news feed.

In that I have requested people to post a comment that says " Yes I am doing my bit to fight injustice!" so that the same feed goes to their friends and so on.



2. I have entered the above story's link in my Gtalk messenger status.

3. I have entered the above story's link in my msn messenger status.

4. I have forwarded the above story's link to all the contacts in my gmail and hotmail email account.

5. I have done my bit to contribute to this fight for injustice. Have you ?

I have the right to my own opinion and I can express it to my friends. No law in the world can stop that, not even Indian laws.
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Old 27th March 2009, 18:16   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoda Corporate View Post
Hi there,
It saddens us here at Skoda that things have escalated to this point and we have tried to engage but the truth is that some of the comments are now extremely offensive and defamatory. They are personal atacks on our company, staff and me as an individual.

We have tried very hard to engage but users are simply not being reasonable or letting us partake in the forum and allowing us to be heard.

It is very simple- all of the facts are not represented here and we have been informed that from a legal standpoint, we cannot disclose them as doing so may affect the outcome of the case.


Meghna.
Partially quoted above,

Is it a ploy from the Skoda legal team to show a "sincere" attempt by Skoda to resolve the issue and the complainant actually making the stakes higher and tarnishing the brand.
In the best case skoda will use this in their favor the legal case and in the worst Skoda will sue Team-BHP and all of us for defamation!
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