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Old 13th April 2009, 01:45   #1321
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Raveendra, while I am willing to give Skoda the benefit of doubt, would it kill them to issue an explanation if not an apology as readily as they set out to make dumbass threats?
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Old 13th April 2009, 02:24   #1322
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
Raveendra, while I am willing to give Skoda the benefit of doubt, would it kill them to issue an explanation if not an apology as readily as they set out to make dumbass threats?
LOL, you said it right. Dumbass is the right word. I was one of the first to welcome, warn and then flay meghna and skoda corporate. Those 6 posts would have been funny if they were not so pathetic.

Skoda not only needs to get some new dealers, they also need to get themselves new PR and legal guys. It would be real sad if Skoda were to die out in India because of incompetent back office and support guys. If there is a management lesson here - it is that 'cost centres' are as important as 'profit centres'.

@ SS-traveller - there are several posts on TBHP by satisfied Skoda owners who have stated that their A.S.S. experience has been good or decent enough. Therefore to conclude that all dealers are bad and to tar them with the same brush would be presumptuous. It is also now quite clear that the rot seemed to have spread down from the top. The top has since been replaced. So accusations of 'turning a Nelson's eye' might be out of place. Let us remember that cleaning the Augean stables was a Herculean task, clearing out the rot from an organisation is equally arduous.

Cheers,
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Old 13th April 2009, 06:59   #1323
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
OMG! Thad, that almost sound like we enjoy their original parts getting replaced with 'duplicate' parts!

I'm sure, Sir, that you did not mean it that way!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
But, it is still a far cry from saying that every dealer steals parts from every car.
Ravveendrra, I think that chide of yours has been sufficiently replied to.
Moreover, where in the above post did you see EVERY dealer having been accused?
Please don't go overboard trying to be a King Solomon!
Much damage has been done by Skoda India and most of us are not feeling very forgiving!
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Old 13th April 2009, 08:28   #1324
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Maybe Harish, even conceding your point and, I find your statement quite believable as the ex-MD seems to have been quite cosy with some of the dealers. If he was greedy - there is no way that his (personal) network included only one dealer. But, it is still a far cry from saying that every dealer steals parts from every car.
Ravveendra:

From one dealer, we move on to 3, and if we add one dealer that I know of (not in Harish' list) then that makes it 4. 4 out of 60 odd dealers they have now is about 7%. Which means not *every* dealer but atleast 7% of the dealers. We do not yet know about the rest. However given the number of cribs about Skoda dealers in Team BHP the number will only increase.

Further you have the ex-MD cosying up with the dealer of Skoda until recently.

You have a strong possiblity that the Head of PR of Skoda India is a Director at a Mumbai Skoda dealer; further strengthened because Ms Meghna Choksey (the person in question) hasn't clarified yet to this forum is she is indeed a Director at Autobahn, the Skoda dealer in Mumbai, while she responded to other posts later (assuming she is Skoda Corporate as she claims).

While nobody in the forum is generalising saying *every* dealer; it is important to note that a non-trivial number of dealers have acted with suspected malafide intent. Further the above 2 relationships strengthen the suspicion that this is / was likely to be "hand in glove".

Thus it is important to caution Skoda buyers in this forum and outside about all their dealers. Because it is better to be cautious before buying ( the biggest asset outlay for anyone other than a house is a car - C segment or above) than to regret the decision later.

Cheers,

Last edited by diffsoft : 13th April 2009 at 08:33.
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Old 13th April 2009, 09:18   #1325
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
All companies in UK have those. They call them "Health and Safety Regulations"

Some, however, provide a glazed-off area from which work can be watched.

I've never had the dedication or patience.

By the way... it occurs to me that if Skoda were actually to be chased out of India, the real sufferers might be those still owning Skoda cars after their departure, so, no, I don't think this is a good way to go.

Still, it is hard for the even the most dedicated PR man (or woman) to put a positive spin on "Skoda Out!" (errr.... "They love us, they mentioned our name"?) so let them measure their current corporate popularity by it.


I never say / said that Skoda should leave India. That would be detremental to the owners of Skoda cars. The way things are VAG is digging in it's heels in India.

We all know of the market potential, as do automobile manufacturing companies. No they are not going to leave, (nor do we want them to) The only thing they need to sort out is the dealerships' workshop operations.

The workshop of an Automotive agency is the money spinner for any agency. Be it Maruti or Mercedes, we are only wanting that ethical practises are implemented with an Iron hand.





Cheers
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Old 13th April 2009, 10:05   #1326
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
it is still a far cry from saying that every dealer steals parts from every car.

Stealing of parts by mechanics (or A.S.S., or dealers) is absolutely reprehensible and we definitely need to stamp out the practice.

,
I have heard more than one story, covering the entire spectrum of services an A.S.S. offers, from Kerala. (all the A.S.S'si in Kerala belong to a single entity. ) I have also heard the same from Cbe.

These stories are from actual owners and corroborated by ex-mechanics of these establishments - the latter spoke of a few of these things being 'management directives' laced with severe fiscal and other penalties for these mechanics if they were found non compliant )

I think for dealers to do this with such impunity, they have to be bolstered by lack of fear of action by the principal - which looks like what has happened in this case.

I do think it is an EPIDEMIC!

LEts not read too much into the Nummereins losing their dealership. Skoda has not been vocal about the reasons yet - for all you know it may be somehting to do with thier previous MD and related conflict of interest issues, or just about anything else!

The levels of corporate governance and transparancy exhibited by Skoda so far (and for that matter even earlier - by VW) , leads me to believe there has to more to it than meets the eye! We may have just scratched the surface - and very mildly at that!

Last edited by kb100 : 13th April 2009 at 10:19.
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Old 13th April 2009, 10:33   #1327
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I dont think the question is about the number of dealers who are indulging in this activity, but more about how Skoda India is reacting to the nonsense.

If Skoda doesnt react with swift retribution and immediate corrective action, then gentlemen, there is a definite case for generalization.

The dealers are basically agents of the principle. As such generalization on the basis of the principals actions is quite fair IMO.

On another note, yesterday while opening the door of my car, the door touched a pillar in the parking lot et voila, a yellow spot came up!
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Old 13th April 2009, 10:38   #1328
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you know what Evo? you could very easily have your own blue vRS with yellow polka dots!!
if I were you, Id do that immediately and get the picture published.
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:03   #1329
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hahaha!

Now that would be something, wont it? An itsy bitsy teeny weeny, yellow polka dot Czekini!
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:19   #1330
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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
you know what Evo? you could very easily have your own blue vRS with yellow polka dots!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by evo View Post
hahaha!

Now that would be something, wont it? An itsy bitsy teeny weeny, yellow polka dot Czekini!
@ evo: What stoicism! But then, what else...
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:23   #1331
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
If the district forum had passed an order against the consumer. Would it be fair to expect that the consumer not file an appeal?
I'm sorry Reveendrra, but I just don't buy that. I know of one too many cases where a tenant has illegally occupied / overstayed property and goes into appeal at the higher courts. Of course, it is every citizen's right to appeal. However, the decision to appeal or not - when you know you are in the wrong - separates the man from the devil. I get the impression that you are yourself from the legal fraternity, thus you will surely know of even diehard criminals who go into appeal. The court had merely asked Skoda to return the Octavia to Harish after bringing it up to perfect standards. Skoda's not doing anyone a favour, it is Harishs right as a customer to have access to a properly functioning car!

To cut straight to the point, NO, I do not think Skoda has been fair in appealing. Pray tell me a reason other than harassing this poor customer that Skoda went into appeal? When we are fully aware that the appeal will take upto 12 months before it comes up for hearing. WHY would Skoda want Harish to continue paying his EMIs on one hand, and have his car impounded in the other? Why would Skoda NOT want this gentleman to atleast be in possession of a car that is rightfully his, even if the said car is now in a deplorable state?

Quote:
A mere accusation (even by the most well meaning citizens) is not proof
The case in point is clearly not a mere accussation. It has been well documented and backed up with proof.

Quote:
Unfortunately common-sense often takes a back seat in business and is invariably thrown out the window once a matter reaches the courts!
Absolutely agreed. This is a classic text-book case of a Lose-Lose situation (versus a win-win which a smart corporate would work toward). Atleast with its paying customers!

- Harish is in a loss making situation, despite being a premium customer who has paid over a million rupees for a supposedly luxury car. I bet he is still paying EMI's on a car that is not even in his possession. Plus, he has been made to go to the court after being treated rotten by the very Skoda who carries a responsibility to look after him (as their customer).

- Skoda is in a loss making situation since their management is purely incompetent when it comes to customer service, many of their dealers are cheaters, and the resultant bad PR is causing them a serious loss of business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
But, it is still a far cry from saying that every dealer steals parts from every car.
As I have stated earlier, what we have to gauge is the number of complaints relative to the brand's marketshare:

FACTS :

1. The number of complaints against Skoda outnumber that for any other brand, especially when you consider most of those complaints are of a serious order (inflated bills, interchanged parts, shoddy service, mis-represented estimates, forged signatures etc.).

2. In the Team-BHP ownership surveys, Skoda's after sales received the WORST ratings. This despite Skoda selling only a small number of cars when compared to the big guys (Maruti, Hyundai, Tata etc.).

3. Even on other websites, Skoda's after sales garners the most number of complaints. Consider that consumer website that was linked to earlier. Skoda ranked second in volume only to PAN card issues!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Skoda not only needs to get some new dealers, they also need to get themselves new PR and legal guys.
Not to mention, a solid management in charge of customer service. Else, the new dealers / PR / legal guys will adopt the exact same culture.

Quote:
It would be real sad if Skoda were to die out in India because of incompetent back office and support guys. If there is a management lesson here - it is that 'cost centres' are as important as 'profit centres'.
So true. Well said. I feel sorry for the Skoda brand (at the global level) which does make some nice cars, but has a bunch of incompetent monkeys in India spoiling the show for them.
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:32   #1332
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
.....Much damage has been done by Skoda India and most of us are not feeling very forgiving!
I for one, am not for the forgive and forget line of action. I ran into the ground the mechanic who stole my carb. even though it cost me something like the value of the whole bike. King Solomon must be turning in his grave!

I am sorry if I sounded as if I was chiding anyone. I was not, I was just trying to give a little perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diffsoft View Post
Ravveendra:

......
Further you have the ex-MD cosying up with the dealer of Skoda until recently.


..... ,
Forget 'cosying up till recently', there are several posts here stating that the ex-MD is now a partner with the people behind Nummer-eins.

Regarding the 'every' dealer bit. There are enough posts implying that to own a Skoda and to take it to an A.S.S. means to have parts substituted. Though no one has actually said 'every dealer' the implication was quite strong and clear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
I never say / said that Skoda should leave India. That would be detremental to the owners of Skoda cars. The way things are VAG is digging in it's heels in India.

We all know of the market potential, as do automobile manufacturing companies. No they are not going to leave, (nor do we want them to) The only thing they need to sort out is the dealerships' workshop operations.

The workshop of an Automotive agency is the money spinner for any agency. Be it Maruti or Mercedes, we are only wanting that ethical practises are implemented with an Iron hand.

Cheers
+1 to that. Something I too was trying to say, unfortunately, not as effectively. One cannot emphasise enough on the ethical practices bit. So also, one cannot lose sight of the common sense approach.


Quote:
Originally Posted by evo View Post
hahaha!

Now that would be something, wont it? An itsy bitsy teeny weeny, yellow polka dot Czekini!
LOL, that is quite a ditty. It had me grinning from ear to ear, esp. as the song played itself out in my head.

Last edited by Ravveendrra : 13th April 2009 at 11:36.
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:49   #1333
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
...Regarding the 'every' dealer bit. There are enough posts implying that to own a Skoda and to take it to an A.S.S. means to have parts substituted. Though no one has actually said 'every dealer' the implication was quite strong and clear. ...
I disagree strongly, I never got the implication. In fact I myself do not think so. You had folks say good words for JMD, for Vinayak in Bangalore in this thread and this forum!

In fact I think you thought the posts in the thread implied ".... . that every dealer steals parts from every car... " (emphasis mine)

Sorry for pushing this but had to get the implication right since we are now moving from what we said to what we implied

Cheers,
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Old 13th April 2009, 11:57   #1334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Regarding the 'every' dealer bit. There are enough posts implying that to own a Skoda and to take it to an A.S.S. means to have parts substituted. Though no one has actually said 'every dealer' the implication was quite strong and clear.
.
I agree. I have been happy with Vinayak, they are not perfect, they may be over process oriented but I feel they are honest, transparent and you have the option on how far to go.

Publicity wise - it take one rotten apple.

I know my VRs is not the paragon of reliability. I know Skoda India lend very little support (the jury is out on whether it is an attitude or competence issue!).

Will I buy a Skoda again ? The answer is not no but maybe - depending on how reliable the next few models are! Until I can afford a BMW, it is my only option for a drivers car. Everyone comments on how secure they feel in it.

One trick up our sleeves for servicing post warranty is to visit your friendly VW dealer expecially if you have a Laura or new Superb. As in our surveys, VW service is not bad - the Laura and Superb are Jetta and Passat under the skin. Hence we have options. In the UK , a lot of VW and Audi;s go to Skoda dealers for service due to better service (mainly family owned concerns)
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:09   #1335
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
Looking at all these issues, I still don't understand few things.

- How are Skoda sales going up year after year?

- When other companies (Fiat) goofed up on service, their sales crashed. Why is Skoda immune to this? Is it because Fiat / Ford cars are cheap and people can make a noise and Skoda's are expensive? Maybe owners feel that they would look stupid having paid 1.4 million bucks for a car and are left high and dry by the company?

And what's worse is that compared to Skoda, Ford and Fiat seem like angels!
One of the reason Skoda managed to sell in decent numbers is because of customer perception that the car is built like a tank and on top of it gives excellent mileage. Before this thread was started I was among of 100s of car enthusiasts who would recommend Skoda to a potential buyer. This thread has helped the skeletons to fall.

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