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Old 15th April 2009, 04:50   #46
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
@Maverick- Will agree with you on this.
However i feel women drivers are not as much informed about the laws as much male drivers are hence women drivers commit such mistakes on the ignorance side while male drivers do it as they have no regard for the law.
Yes,it may be that women drivers are less informed,but then whose fault is it? The fault of the lady who breaks the law,the fault of the driving school she went to,or is it the fault of the guy who issued her Driving Licence.
And yes,women do escape away by crying and stuff,a girl (probably in 16s) on an activa suddenly came out of nowhere in front of my car,she was probabily avoiding the traffic check post ahead and hit my bumper,result:even after hard braking by me,she hit the bumper,broke my number plate and fell,quite scared I helped her get her up and then on seeing her alright slapped her in all my anger.By then the traffic guy had cared to come forward,he asked both of us to park our vehicles aside,I wasn't carrying my licence then and he was about to handle me a challan for rash driving and broken no. plete,despite of the fact that the plate was broken in front of him.Luckily,a call to dad and his connections with the local SP saved me from those bribe hungry cops.
As for the girl,her statement in pure rude hindi was "what the hell will you do?Challan hi katega na kaat de,mera baap reporter hai,teri wardi utarwa dungi!" .And to my astoinishment he let her go,not to mention her threat to me as well for getting me behind the bars for 'misbehaving'! However,that threat of hers never materialized.

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Old 15th April 2009, 10:31   #47
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Default I want to change myself and not this system first.

Don't try to change the system or the country overnight. Change is inevitable for good or bad thats in our hand. Take parking for instance how many of us have parked the car wrongly thinking " arre I will be back in two mins". Agreed we don't have infrastructure but hey we are getting there.

We need to change our behavior at an individual level first. For instance whenever I got to town now a days, I park my car at Inox and take a cab its the best thing to do. Car is safe, no illegal parking and stress free. I now know 5 of my friends who do that and the number is increasing. I hope eventually we as drivers don't commit any breach of law and give the officers a chance to do whatever!

We should say "I will change and not wait for the system to change"
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Old 15th April 2009, 11:31   #48
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Don't try to change the system or the country overnight. Change is inevitable for good or bad thats in our hand. Take parking for instance how many of us have parked the car wrongly thinking " arre I will be back in two mins". Agreed we don't have infrastructure but hey we are getting there.

We need to change our behavior at an individual level first. For instance whenever I got to town now a days, I park my car at Inox and take a cab its the best thing to do. Car is safe, no illegal parking and stress free. I now know 5 of my friends who do that and the number is increasing. I hope eventually we as drivers don't commit any breach of law and give the officers a chance to do whatever!

We should say "I will change and not wait for the system to change"
+1. IMO its improbable that the system will ever change because we are so used to accepting mediocrity, but we can change ourselves so these people don't affect us. Since I learnt how to drive, I have always parked properly and observed the rules so that I don't inconvenience others. Of course, that hasn't stopped the pandus from towing away my car on a couple of occasions even when it has been properly parked and damaging the bumper As always, arguing with them about the legality aspect was futile and demeaning.

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Old 15th April 2009, 11:39   #49
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+1. IMO its improbable that the system will ever change because we are so used to accepting mediocrity, but we can change ourselves so these people don't affect us. Since I learnt how to drive, I have always parked properly and observed the rules so that I don't inconvenience others. Of course, that hasn't stopped the pandus from towing away my car on a couple of occasions even when it has been properly parked and damaging the bumper As always, arguing with them about the legality aspect was futile and demeaning.
Yes i will agree with both the preceeding posts,however I am of an opinion that,we humans are prone to error,and for a mistake like wrong parking,the fine and the running to places that follows is enough of a punishment.In the whole process,if the car gets damaged and then if we have to shell out thousands,give away our no-claim bonus,all due the fact that the towing wasnt proper,is a bit too much of a punishment for the offence.

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Old 15th April 2009, 11:48   #50
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for a mistake like wrong parking,the fine and the running to places that follows is enough of a punishment.In the whole process,if the car gets damaged and then if we have to shell out thousands,give away our no-claim bonus,all due the fact that the towing wasnt proper,is a bit too much of a punishment for the offence.

Regards.
Exactly my point. If we make a mistake like parking incorrectly, the fine is enough, as that is the only legal punishment. But if our cars have been damaged, then the cops/towing guys have also made a mistake and should be penalised for that,instead of people trying to hide their mistakes behind the lame excuses of cops being overworked, underpaid and what not. If that were the case, then every hardworking employee anywhere should rightfully make mistakes daily and brush it off with these kind of excuses
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Old 15th April 2009, 12:30   #51
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So by that yardstick, if someone has committed a bigger crime like, say, getting drunk & driving, in addition to the fine, his car should be totaled as a deterrent. What say?
I happen to find this as an excellent suggestion.
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Old 15th April 2009, 14:23   #52
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[quote=maverick030581;1260381]
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
here in Mumbai at least, I have seen cops letting drunk drivers go in front of my eyes for as little as 200 bucks. Multiple times. So that is the value of a potential human life being lost for these "bechara" cops of yours. And these are the same guys that me and my friends have had run-ins with for helping other people or for no fault of ours, and we have been talked to in the filthiest, most condescending language you can ever hope to hear, even with us being civilized. Even if they have been cussed out by others, so what? It is one of the pitfalls of their job and they better handle it without talking down to me or to any person whose taxes pay their damn salary.
So I really hope you have experiences with our "upholders of the law" personally before passing comments that are easy to make, trying to sound like a saint.

You missed what I said maverick - I have dealt with cops in UP, Haryana, Delhi and Punjab. Mind you, Mumbai and Bangalore cops are mild compared to the guys from up north - so yes I do speak from experience. Ever dealt with a Punjab cop?

I speak to them in their language and calmly and I have never been abused by a cop. I wonder why it's different with you? I've been pulled up for speeding, wrong parking, a broken number plate and a couple of other things I don't even remember.

In the example of the drunk driver - it's interesting how the cop is to blame and you have no opinion of the guy driving drunk.
Let me add two more things to underpaid and overworked, which will really get your goat - ill-trained and emasculated.

What condition are you referring to? Just being born into an underprivileged family does not give anyone the right to take bribes and insult other people and destroy their property. Or does it according to you?

Of course not.

Everyone has opportunities and well, if they were content with just their salaries, there are plenty of similar paying jobs out there. The only reason why they get into these jobs is for the illegitimate money, and the thrill of power.

Doesn't everybody want to earn more? Some of us are lucky enought to have the opportunity to work hard and earn more legally. Others don't and hence are tempted to take bribes. Why is that a difficult concept to grasp? I disagree with your general sweeping statement that `everyone has opportunities'. No, everyone does not have opprtunities - it's the luck of the draw. Ask the rag-picker outside your house about the wonderful opportunites ahead of him/her. Being underpaid is one of the biggest drivers for corruption in our government.

And how do we know why they join the force? Has one of your cop friends confided in you?

Wake up & smell the **** our country is in, rather than dreaming of roses. Or the next time your car gets damaged by a towing guy, please do nothing and don't get upset. Praise him instead for the hard work he put in. In addition, if you want to do some good, please start by compensating other victims of the traffic cops, since your "poor" cops won't.

Im sorry, but I can't quite discern what you are trying to say here.

And PS, I'm in a job of my choice, that I happen to be good at, that I take only pride (and no bribes) in doing. I should hope thats the case with you as well, but maybe it isn't.

Im happy for you, really. I could speak about my job, how good I am etc. but I think that detracts from the topic.

PS2-I think its your thinking thats filmy and idealistic at best, why are you trying to create solutions on this thread like the wheel locks idea? Since you believe in doing good, you should put the idea to the Traffic Commissioner in Delhi who won't ever read this thread.

There is a basic difference between our ideologies maverick and that is - I believe in free speech. Why shouldn't I float an idea and why do you assume I haven't raised it with Delhi Traffic Police/Government?

Maybe the only reason why I'm feeling a little hot is because I was stuck in traffic, delayed by an hour because the traffic cops were standing around, not doing their job again (not that I've ever seen them doing their job many times anyway) while an election rally passed at a snail's pace, and I had to wait. Enough said. And to each his own. Exactly why this country has no way forward. But hey, maybe we can all dream this country into the best one !
Damn the RDB hangover.
This forum is about different ideas and we are allowed to disagree. The reason I added emasculated is because of examples in this thread itself. In the example of the traffic jam above the cop probably has orders to let the rally pass. What is he to do, disobey them? A few posts above, one person spoke about how a woman driving a scooter hit his car. The woman claimed to be a reporter's daughter and the guy knew the SP - talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place! This is exactly what I said - `jaanta hai mera baap kaun hai'.
Oh and one other thing, I'm very well connected but I have never thrown my weight around with a cop. Maybe that is a reason why I've never been abused by one

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Originally Posted by blacmagic View Post
Starscream, I know what Ive written look like excuses but they are not. you cannot be everywhere and do everything at once.
after reading your emphatic statement about how we should be a part of the solution, I expected more than "how about traffic cops start using wheel locks?" how is that solution - if it can be called that - different from me 'cribbing' "how about greedy politicians stop eating our money?"

blac, that is a start and an actionable idea rather than a sweeping statement to reform the entire system and addresses the point of this thread - how to prevent damage to a car.

frankly, Im disappointed. I thought you were going to take the IPS exam and drill some sense into our cops.

Ahh, frankly blac Im too old and too dumb We need naw jawans like you!

if you discount cars parked wrong and obstructing traffic, that leaves only cars which are parked correctly. why would they even need to be touched?
that - if you notice - appears to be the major concern here. cars being towed and violated from spots which are or look perfectly legal.
Many a times cars are parked on the side of the road, on the pavement where they don't obstruct traffic but are not in a designated parking. In these cases immobilizing them is perhaps a better option than towing them. But I agree, often there aren't proper signages and one doesn't know if an area is authorized parking or not.
One reason why they are so keen to tow at least in central Delhi (and I know this because I work in a sensitive building) is because of the threat of a car bomb terror attack.

Last edited by StarScream : 15th April 2009 at 14:28.
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Old 15th April 2009, 14:32   #53
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
But I agree, many a times there aren't proper signages and one doesn't know if an area is authorized parking or not.
That's the point.

In truth:
Parking allowed unless prohibited by signs / in contravention of regulations (which are general guidelines and not location-specific).

Our cops' bluff:
Parking not allowed unless permitted by signs.

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Old 15th April 2009, 14:37   #54
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Yes,it may be that women drivers are less informed,but then whose fault is it? The fault of the lady who breaks the law,the fault of the driving school she went to,or is it the fault of the guy who issued her Driving Licence.
First of all I really like woman drivers.
I was just stating a fact. How many woman drivers have got license by passing driving tests? Barely any.
They will drive in middle,you blow horn- they will keep driving in middle as if deaf since birth.
They will stop anywhere without any reason or warning.
They dont know if there is anything in the car called - Indicator which is used to move left or right, they see the turn they take the turn, simple.
They try their best to bang into your car somehow and when they succeed YOU are always at fault and have to bear the consequences.
Boils my blood a lot when am driving and they irritate the hell out of me but i still like them.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal but thats expected if you are in a traffic mess with a gal.
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Old 15th April 2009, 14:42   #55
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[quote=StarScream;1261341]
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Originally Posted by maverick030581 View Post

This forum is about different ideas and we are allowed to disagree. The reason I added emasculated is because of examples in this thread itself. In the example of the traffic jam above the cop probably has orders to let the rally pass. What is he to do, disobey them? A few posts above, one person spoke about how a woman driving a scooter hit his car. The woman claimed to be a reporter's daughter and the guy knew the SP - talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place! This is exactly what I said - `jaanta hai mera baap kaun hai'.

Oh and one other thing, I'm very well connected but I have never thrown my weight around with a cop. Maybe that is a reason why I've never been abused by one
Maybe being handed over a challan you did not deserve/a bribe seeking cop is a very normal thing for you,and you may have by now been accustommed to them from all your experience. I on the other hand am a relatively new driver,and yes I live in Punjab so I know about Haryana/punjab cops as much as you do if not more. If a cop tries to be unfair,its my duty to prevent him from doing so,whether I do it with my connections or my Dad's, the point is the job should be done and the cop should know that if he does something wrong there are chances he might land in some serious troubles. Its that despite being well connected you never went for 'mera baap kaun hai' kind of attitude and was more than happy to get challans you did not deserve, but for me its my Duty as a citizen to ensure no one takes undue advantages of the power he enjoys.


Quote:
Many a times cars are parked on the side of the road, on the pavement where they don't obstruct traffic but are not in a designated parking. In these cases immobilizing them is perhaps a better option than towing them. But I agree, often there aren't proper signages and one doesn't know if an area is authorized parking or not.
One reason why they are so keen to tow at least in central Delhi (and I know this because I work in a sensitive building) is because of the threat of a car bomb terror attack.
Now, this again sounds a bit off the mark, you mean if a car has been parked at a wrong place ,in all probability there is a bomb inside it? And then why not the police brings in the bomb diffusing squad, will towing away a bomb equipped car be potentially less dangerous? I fail to understand the logic behind it, what if it explodes in all the traffic while it was being towed away? How does towing helps preventing an explosion?

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Old 15th April 2009, 14:47   #56
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
First of all I really like woman drivers.
I was just stating a fact. How many woman drivers have got license by passing driving tests? Barely any.
They will drive in middle,you blow horn- they will keep driving in middle as if deaf since birth.
They will stop anywhere without any reason or warning.
They dont know if there is anything in the car called - Indicator which is used to move left or right, they see the turn they take the turn, simple.
They try their best to bang into your car somehow and when they succeed YOU are always at fault and have to bear the consequences.
Boils my blood a lot when am driving and they irritate the hell out of me but i still like them.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal but thats expected if you are in a traffic mess with a gal.

Yes,you are very much right.
OFF TOPIC:And I must admit, you have a great sense of humour, i read and re-read the first line after reading your post.
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Old 15th April 2009, 14:48   #57
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Guys, please go easy on the bold font! Makes for hard reading.

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
First of all I really like woman drivers.
I was just stating a fact. How many woman drivers have got license by passing driving tests? Barely any.
They will drive in middle,you blow horn- they will keep driving in middle as if deaf since birth.
They will stop anywhere without any reason or warning.
They dont know if there is anything in the car called - Indicator which is used to move left or right, they see the turn they take the turn, simple.
They try their best to bang into your car somehow and when they succeed YOU are always at fault and have to bear the consequences.
Boils my blood a lot when am driving and they irritate the hell out of me but i still like them.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal but thats expected if you are in a traffic mess with a gal.
Harry10, every single point you've mentioned applies equally if not more to men drivers in our country. Auto drivers are of course the worst, followed by all regular drivers-- except members of T-BHP of course
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Old 15th April 2009, 15:18   #58
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[quote=YC.BALENO.CHD;1261393]
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post

Maybe being handed over a challan you did not deserve/a bribe seeking cop is a very normal thing for you,and you may have by now been accustommed to them from all your experience. I on the other hand am a relatively new driver,and yes I live in Punjab so I know about Haryana/punjab cops as much as you do if not more. If a cop tries to be unfair,its my duty to prevent him from doing so,whether I do it with my connections or my Dad's, the point is the job should be done and the cop should know that if he does something wrong there are chances he might land in some serious troubles. Its that despite being well connected you never went for 'mera baap kaun hai' kind of attitude and was more than happy to get challans you did not deserve, but for me its my Duty as a citizen to ensure no one takes undue advantages of the power he enjoys.



Now, this again sounds a bit off the mark, you mean if a car has been parked at a wrong place ,in all probability there is a bomb inside it? And then why not the police brings in the bomb diffusing squad, will towing away a bomb equipped car be potentially less dangerous? I fail to understand the logic behind it, what if it explodes in all the traffic while it was being towed away? How does towing helps preventing an explosion?
Ok, If I was speeding I paid the challan. If I was parked in a wrong place, and my car got towed, I paid the fine. I wasn't handed a fine for being a saint. One other thing, you were driving without a license. That makes you a law-breaker irrespective of what happens afterwards. The cop was not entirely wrong in fining you.

What I love about this forum is how people take a view to the extreme and then respond. Did I say if a car is parked in a wrong place it has a bomb in it? What I said was, and let me try to be a little more lucid, cars on pavements in front of sensitive buildings like the one where I work are considered a security threat.
And your logic is very sound - don't move the car is it has a bomb in it. However, the cops don't know if there is a bomb in it. All they know is parking in that spot is risky and the car has to be moved so that the owner does not make that mistake again. All this was specific to the location where I work and not a general thesis on bomb-disposal.

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Old 15th April 2009, 15:28   #59
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Ok, If I was speeding I paid the challan. If I was parked in a wrong place, and my car got towed, I paid the fine. I wasn't handed a fine for being a saint. One other thing, you were driving without a license. That makes you a law-breaker irrespective of what happens afterwards. The cop was not entirely wrong in fining you.
Again you are defending unnecessarily. Does me not having a license denotes that I was driving rash,and when the no. plate was broken in front of him,does a challan for 'driving' the car without the plate was of any good?especially the car had not moved an inch after the plate was broken.And the challan for driving without a license is VEHICLE DRIVEN BY UNAUTHORIZED PERSON,and certainly not RASH DRIVING.
Yes,you pay the fine when you break the law,what if you have to do the same for not breaking the law? Will you be as happy then? Regarding your bomb theory,I am speechless.a suspect car bomb is towed away by the contarctor,and no one calls the bomb disposal squad.
And FIY I too love this forum because of the same fact due to which you do.
All thanks to you.
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Old 15th April 2009, 15:49   #60
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Again you are defending unnecessarily. Does me not having a license denotes that I was driving rash,

No it just denotes that you were driving without a license.

and when the no. plate was broken in front of him,does a challan for 'driving' the car without the plate was of any good?especially the car had not moved an inch after the plate was broken.

No, that was wrong. But assuming this matter had gone to court if someone had got seriously injured, you'd have been in the dock for driving without a license. That would be the first thing the opposing lawyer would mention.

And the challan for driving without a license is VEHICLE DRIVEN BY UNAUTHORIZED PERSON,and certainly not RASH DRIVING.

Driving without a license is an offense - period. Whether the cop challaned you correctly or not is a different matter.

Yes,you pay the fine when you break the law,what if you have to do the same for not breaking the law?

But you broke the law! By not having you license on you. As I said, whether the cop understood this correctly or not is a different matter.

Will you be as happy then? Regarding your bomb theory,I am speechless.a suspect car bomb is towed away by the contarctor,and no one calls the bomb disposal squad.
I, respectfully, ask you to read my previous post again.

Last edited by StarScream : 15th April 2009 at 15:56.
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