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Old 15th August 2005, 18:45   #196
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Veyron1,

If i am right, the endeavour has leaf-springs suspension at the back right?? How is the rear-seat comfort and handling on bad roads..

Manish.
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Old 15th August 2005, 20:16   #197
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Quote:

If i am right, the endeavour has leaf-springs suspension at the back right?? How is the rear-seat comfort and handling on bad roads..
In one word - HORRIBLE. The Endeavours ride quality can jarr the bones off the toughest of army chaps.

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Old 15th August 2005, 20:38   #198
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Thumbs up The Safari is nice !!!

hey ! Endeavor is definitely off the list...but the SAfari is nice...needs a little more power...and whole lot of styling...improvement...but I need a a LAnd Cruiser...
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Old 15th August 2005, 22:30   #199
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Originally Posted by GTO
In one word - HORRIBLE. The Endeavours ride quality can jarr the bones off the toughest of army chaps.
GTO
Hmm, in that case.. I am still sticking to the Telcoline.. Got to make a decision by September end..
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Old 16th August 2005, 00:44   #200
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Telcoline specs are on the tata page now. 90ps 4x4.
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Old 16th August 2005, 08:16   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
verdict- if you have the moolah, go for the endeavour....although it is roughly two and a half lacs dearer than the safari in 2wd form, (the gap goes up to 3.5 for 4wd), it is worth every penny. the rear seats aren't as great as the safari's, but it's an excellent suv, and built like a tank- the build quality of the endeavour is much better than the safaris and corollas...
Ford build better than the Corolla. Sit on the rear seat while travelling on some great indian highways and this thought would go up in smoke.
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Old 16th August 2005, 08:24   #202
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The Ford Endeavour is built on Ranger chassis featuring solid rear axles, one of the reasons for its poor ride, the saddest part is the anaemic Mazda engine which is leftover from the 80s, although not a bad engine, it is hopelessly under powered for this application, the Endeavour crawls when going uphill and has to be revved mercilessly. Ford in US has a bad rep with Endeavours and Explorers, the die hard 4WD guys call it Exploder as the rear diff has a tendency to explode, if you can spare a little more money, go for the Terracan, a far better option. The Safari DICOR is a modified 407 engine which has a tough lower end, so with proper care, it can be made to last as well.

Last edited by Gurkha : 16th August 2005 at 08:26. Reason: Typo
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Old 16th August 2005, 19:01   #203
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Ford build better than the Corolla.Sit on the rear seat while travelling on some great indian highways and this thought would go up in smoke.
i was only quoting the build of the endeavour, not it's ride- i found it to be better put together than the safari or the corolla- i found that the trims of the corolla squeak (only slightly) when it hits rough patches.... i wasn't saying that the ford's overall build quality is better than the toyotas. try hitting the rough patches with a fusion, and it'll start whining away with those doors and dash interiors; at the same time, try doing so with the innova, and it'll be pleasantly quiet. trust me, i have tried all these, and am just speaking what i experienced..... in fact, i believe that the innova, in some areas, is better than the corolla in terms of build quality. but that's not to say that the corolla is inferior. it's good, but it's just that the innova's better...

and nishant, i did try out the endeavour extensively on highways and bad roads....it felt okay....although the rear isn't what you might call "bliss"....


Quote:
How is the rear-seat comfort and handling on bad roads
like i said, the rear seats aren't as good as the safari's- in fact, they are nowhere near the safari's. but the endeavour handles the rough with apolomb, and almost at par with the safari. the rear leafs are not the only factor for the harsh ride quality- the qualis had almost the same setup, and had acceptable ride. it's just that the endeavour behaves more or less like the gypsy, on harsh roads at low speeds- the rear leafs are not as flexible as the qualis's- but i think it can be fixed with the help of revised dampers and bushes . yes, the ride quality isn't that great at the back, but not that bad either.

Quote:
Hmm, in that case.. I am still sticking to the Telcoline
err...manish, the telcoline has stiffer suspension than the endeavour, and it also sports leafs at the rear....and with respect to the performance- remember the sierra turbo 4x4? well, the figures are going to be quite similar....


Quote:
if you can spare a little more money, go for the Terracan, a far better option.
yup, the new terracan is a helluva SUV, with 163 horses under it's hood, and pumping out more than 330nm of torque.... the hyundai guys told me that along with engine revisions, the suspension has been tuned too.... so i'm guessing the earlier "bobbing" effect while cornering or traversing the rough will not be present.... i personally feel that it is the best SUV in it's price category- even the more expensive pajero sports similar engine specs- but it pumps out almost the same power with 300 cee-cees more, and has a monocoque (talking about the 3.2 DI-D here)..... but more on that after some personal inspection....
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Old 16th August 2005, 19:52   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
err...manish, the telcoline has stiffer suspension than the endeavour, and it also sports leafs at the rear....and with respect to the performance- remember the sierra turbo 4x4? well, the figures are going to be quite similar....
Hmm, the Telcoline specs says, "Semi elliptical leaf springs" whereas the Ford Specs says "Progressive Linear Rate Leaf Springs with Low Friction Pads".. I seriously wonder what that means..
But suffice to know that both the vehicles have leaf-spring suspension.. Ford may offer better ride than the Telcoline because of better body weight in the rear plus comfortable seats.. But then you can't stuff your luggage in the back on long drives..

I had read somewhere.. "What's off-road if you can't carry a motor-cycle, mountain bike, or a fully rigged tent? Or at least an outdoor grille?" Agreed you can't put people in the back.. But atleast you should be able to stuff in all your goodies and your wife's and kid's goodies too on a long trip right??

BTW, i thought the sierra Turbo had an excellent performance.. It was very contemporary at the time it was launched.. The only thing that i think went against it was that it was a two-door..
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Old 16th August 2005, 20:30   #205
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Hey Man23ish
I recomend you get yourself a used Sierra for rock bottom price, completely rebuild everything and drop in a DICOR engine. It will go
like a rocket sled.
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Old 17th August 2005, 00:24   #206
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Quote:
Hey Man23ish
I recomend you get yourself a used Sierra for rock bottom price, completely rebuild everything and drop in a DICOR engine. It will go
like a rocket sled.
mpower, i used to own a sierra, (NA) and i was not at all satisfied with the performance it gave me- but it is an extremely good car, and was launched far ahead of it's time; even the cars that we see today do not have the appeal of the sierra.

as for the performance, no need for a dicor engine in the sierra- i had used a turbo 4x4 (yes, a 4x4) for about two days, and suffice to say that i was mighty impressed. the car had amazing acceleration, and used to max the speedo out (which was at 160). even the gear lever was shorter than the N.A version, and the centre console was pulled out farther out so that the driver could reach the controls of the a/c, etc. without stretching his hand, unlike the N.A.... and after all this thrilling performance, it gave about 13-14 kmpl..!!! now if that isn't great, then what is...???

p.s- just for reference, the safari dicor has a power-to-weight ratio of 51.68 bhp/tonne (115 bhp and 2225 kgs,4x4) and the sierra turbo had 52.02 bhp/tonne (90 bhp at 1730 kgs, 4x4;1610 4x2)...that should give an idea as to how good the car was, THEN..... and just so you know, finding a secondhand sierra turbo 4x4 is like finding a needle in a haystack.....trust me, i searched heaven and hell, but couldn't find one...if any of youse know of any one in existence, do tell....

Quote:
Hmm, the Telcoline specs says, "Semi elliptical leaf springs" whereas the Ford Specs says "Progressive Linear Rate Leaf Springs with Low Friction Pads".. I seriously wonder what that means..
manish, there are mainly 5 types of leaf springs- fully elliptical, quarter elliptical, three quarter elliptical,semi-elliptical, and transverse. while the explanation of all these type of springs are long, it should suffice to say that all incorporate different arrangements of metal plates or leaves, in the same pattern. and the "progressive..." leaf springs of the endeavour is just ford lingo for better dampened fastening of semi-elliptic leaf springs. basically, semi-elliptic leaves are common designs for high-load applications...
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Old 17th August 2005, 13:01   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower
Hey Man23ish
I recomend you get yourself a used Sierra for rock bottom price, completely rebuild everything and drop in a DICOR engine. It will go
like a rocket sled.
HA, you mean i should spend money buying an old Sierra and a new Safari both.. And then waste time pulling out the engine from the Safari and plonking it into the Sierra.. Doesn't make economic sense to me..

Besides, If that were so easy.. TATA's wouldn't have spent the time and energy to redesign the vehicle.. They could have bought the engines from ISUZU or TOYOTA and plonked them into their vehicles.. For CRDI (DICOR), there is a range of variables that come into effect.. Primarily the ECU, the sensors, and a lot of intricacies that go with it.. Again the Weight of the Sierra being less as compared to the Safari. It would Truely be a rocket.. But i seriously doubt if the Drive-Train would be upto the mark to handle that amount of power..

I had bought a used 1991 Toyota Camry V6 while i was in USA recently.. It turned out that the transmission on that vehicle was designed for a V4-engine.. And after prolonged usage of the vehicle the transmission was damaged.. There were a lot of problems with the vehicle.. And after spending a lot of time and money on the car.. I had to junk it.. Moral of the story: Make sure that the output power of your engine matches the capacity of the Drive-Train.. Else you end up with broken gears.. Also, revv the vehicle at the appropriate RPM's while changing gears lest you want a broken drive-train..
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Old 17th August 2005, 20:43   #208
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Why do you need to buy a Safari just to get the engine? You think people creating the B-Zens are buying brand new Balenos just for
the engine?

Anyways, I was'nt serious when I suggested, I was just day dreaming. Point is it can be done easily.
Creating dream machines is never about economic sense, but in this case it can be done for cheaper than a brand new Safari.
Sierra ladder frame is similar to the Sumo which already uses the 407 engine in the Spacio version.
Yes you are right about 'some' transmissions not being able to take the torque, so just get a trans from Safari as well.

Sorry to hear about your Camry. Any automatic transmission will need a rebuild at around 150K miles.
By the way the only V4 engine I know if is from a VFR750 sportsbike.
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Old 18th August 2005, 04:27   #209
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Veyron, We owned 2 Estates and my biggest regret was not buying the Sierra Turbo. Here's a chart that shows P/W ratio and more important, torque to weight ratios of our leading lux ute contenders along with the Sierra DICOR concept.

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Old 18th August 2005, 08:55   #210
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Here's a chart that shows P/W ratio and more important, torque to weight ratios of our leading lux ute contenders along with the Sierra DICOR concept.
errr..mpower, i think you miscalculated the power/weight of the sierra turbo 4x4 - the 56(55.90) bhp/tonne ratio is for the 4x2, at 1610 kgs and 90 bhp.... the 4x4 has a power to weight ratio of 52.02 bhp/tonne, like i mentioned before (1730 kgs, at 90 bhp)....

and i think you didn't incorporate the increase in weight of the sierra after plonking the dicor powerplant...the difference in weights of the 2.0 IDI and the DICOR safari (4x4) is 185 kgs.... which means the engine weighs a good 150 kgs+.... (considering some of the weight went into the modded equipment).....

but, an interesting concept nevertheless...if tata could produce the sierra again with a DICOR engine, the same suspension (albeit revised) a 4x4, and a 1700 kg kerb weight limit, with a price tag of say 8 lacs, then i'm pretty sure quite a few bhpians would be gunning for it.... me included....
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