Safari Common Rail Engine Launch? EDIT 010805 Now driven. Edit 190805 Now BOUGHT!!!

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by GTO

would be extremely foolish to raise the price by even a single rupee...If anything, they must take the price lower than at the current levels.

I agree, there is no reason for a Safari to cost any more than a Scorpio CRDi. Maybe its a little more spacious, so I might pay 50K extra.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I agree, there is no reason for a Safari to cost any more than a Scorpio CRDi. Maybe its a little more spacious, so I might pay 50K extra.

Beg to differ - despite being in the same 'category', there is a world of difference between the two vehicles. The Safari is a much better vehicle and its only weakness has been the 2 litre diesel engine. If they plonk in a 3 litre or at least a 2.5 litre CR diesel engine, I'd classify the vehicle in a different category altogether. It is probably the most comfortable vehicle to travel in, this side of the D segment (its actually more comfortable than some of them, since the Mondy is a D segmenter).

[Revvmaster]

40-50k increase is acceptable, provided Tata does something about the interior plastic quality as well and sorts out the reliability issues. No sensible person would pay a penny more than Rs. 11 lakh for a Safari. As GTO mentions, considering tooling and depreciation factors, Tata shouldn't otherwise increase the selling price of the vehicle, except if there are appreciable changes done to the vehicle.

And can Tata discontinue its TV Commercials please. They still depict the 1st gen Safari in action, the one with 5 slats on the grille versus the 3 you find on Safari Evo 2.0.

Revv

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Beg to differ - despite being in the same 'category', there is a world of difference between the two vehicles. The Safari is a much better vehicle and

It probably is better designed (and thats good for TATA), but what I'm saying is that when the specs are sooo close, the price should be close too. front engine, RWD, ladder frame construction, 4 cyl turbo-diesel. Resonably modern interior, designed in India.

I mean......... part to part its so similar and the Safari is 10% bigger (although Mahindra has 3rd row seating). So, thats why I said that it should cost no more for TATA to build this than it costs Mahindra to
build a Scorpio. Like someone mentioned, Safari's tooling should be all depreciated by now. For indian conditions, and SUV with a soft suspension is defnetly going to be the most comfy option. But, you pay the price in bodyroll and handling in the Safari.

Only problem with Scorpio is that the lower priced variants drag down the image whereas TATA markets the Safari as a luxury vehicle

[veyron1]

It probably is better designed (and thats good for TATA), but what I'm saying is that when the specs are sooo close, the price should be close too. front engine, RWD, ladder frame construction, 4 cyl turbo-diesel. Resonably modern interior, designed in India.

errrr...then shouldn't the endeavour and the terracan be priced similarly....??

the point is, the safari is a better designed car; way better than the scorpio. agreed, it might not be worth paying more than 11 lacs...

And can Tata discontinue its TV Commercials please. They still depict the 1st gen Safari in action, the one with 5 slats on the grille versus the 3 you find on Safari Evo 2.0.

and if you watch closely, you will notice that the hood is popping open as soon as it splashes into the water..... but a good concept, nevertheless- would've been even better if they had used the new safari- without the hood popping open, of course....

[devarshi84]

I started this price discussion by saying that TATA would price it around 10-12 lacs but I was thinking this from a company's standpoint. Why wouldnt Tata price the crdi at 10-12 when Tucson with a crdi engine from a similar competitor like hyundai is selling for 14?????Tata still gives bang for the buck with the hight quality blaupunkt stereo,abs,airbags, dual a/c space and comfort.Tata and Hyundai currently are the closest competitors after maruti at the top spot and such a move can be certainly forecasted.

Logically though tata can beat scorpio by pricing it around 9 lacs fully loaded and also cannibalise some C+ segement sedan sales. I may choose the second option.

Tata should learn from maruti and their pricing for the 800. Over the years they made it so cheap that the complete middle class could buy it.A safari at 9 lacs will increase the goodwill of tata and reap profits in the long term.But most of the issues must be ironed out before bringing the product in the market.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by veyron1

errrr...then shouldn't the endeavour and the terracan be priced similarly....??

Terracan and Endeavour are not Indian designs and also use a lot of import content. The Terracan is probably a CBU import.

[SUV]

Guy's

I drive a 2005 Safari Myself .. and i have driven / owned a Petrol, a 98 Safari Diesel .. and i can vouch that Tata have Definitely improved on Quality as far a Safari is concerned.

Even the Power delivery is smooth .... in cabin NVH has reduced .. Rattle is almost 90% gone ..

Body and Paint finish is good .. not like the old wavy metal finish .. i will post some pics for you guy's to take a look ..

[veyron1]

Terracan and Endeavour are not Indian designs and also use a lot of import content. The Terracan is probably a CBU import.

nono... i meant designwise- since, according to you, two similarly designed SUVs should also be similarly priced (indian or otherwise)....hence the example; and i think terracan is a skd..... and besides, the 4X4 version of the scorpio costs close to 9 lacs+ (on-road), which is more than the cost of the LX 4X4 version of the safari...

and like SUV pointed out, expect tata to come out with a pretty good product; and going by their rate of improvements over the years, i guess it's safe to assume that the new safari crdi will not disappoint......

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Why wouldnt Tata price the crdi at 10-12 when Tucson with a crdi engine from a similar competitor like hyundai is selling for 14?????

If TATA prices the Safari at those levels, they will only make the Tucson look more desirable suddenly. Given a 15% price differential, I would rather stretch myself a bit and go for the Hyundai at those prices. Reasons: newer design, better build quality, probably better reliability (Tata's CRD range is unknown while Hyundai's is proven), first class service and peace of mind.

I wouldnt pay that kind of premium for newer grilles and an engine that should've been in that vehicle to start with...

[devarshi84]

If people bought that anaemic old diesel for 10lacs why wouldnt people buy the new crdi for 11??? Tata is third after hyundai with not a high margin.

even I hope tata brings the new safari at 9.

[Harrie]

Guys have a look at the excerpts from a email that i got from a senior and colleuge of mine.

The Tatas fell out with Bosch and opted for Delphi to develop the common rail pump. In Europe, Delphi pumps are not at all preferred, as they have constraints in technology since Bosch has patented deep freezing and ECR machining. Mahindra, Hyundai and Maruti Udyog are pitching in money to develop CRDi kits through MICO-Bosch in Audugodi. Only Tata Motors have gone to Delphi, a move which I am sure will backfire.

Over the years, the Bari plant had productivity issues and India was closing in on Euro 3. Now Bosch has invested 1500 crores, MUL 150 crores, Hyundai 300 crores and Mahindra some 200 crores to shift the plant from Bari and Prague after CP, CPK proving to Bangalore (Audugodi plant). The planned production is about 2500 kits a day from October 2006. This will be supplied to all diesel vehicles except tractors. The complementing engines will come up in the plants of Hyundai (for the getz, elantra, accent), MUL (for swift, zen, esteem) and Mahindra (for scorpio as well as for other vehicles). To give a roll over, MUL has discontinued production of Zen D and Esteem D effective this week.

[man23ish]

Originally Posted by SUV

Even the Power delivery is smooth .... in cabin NVH has reduced .. Rattle is almost 90% gone ..

The NVH of a vehicle is inversely proportional to the heaviness of the vehicle. So as the engine was very noisy, TATA had to increase the weight of the vehicle to dampen the noise.. Now that we have better technology to reduce NVH.. Tata's should take off some of the weight from the vehicle and give it that xXtra punch in the form of P/W ratio.. Thereby, shaving of the extra steel from the vehicle and reducing the prices..

The price should be competitively placed along with the Scorpio..

[tsk1979]

Tata has thick sheets because at that time it lacked technology to produce thin ones. Now the assembly line is already there along with production setup. 115PS is adequate for a 2ton SuV, and i doubt Tata is going to weight reduction before the X7 platform slated to be in production in 2007. that will be the totally new safari with reduced weight and price. Its a new platform altogether.

[SUV]

I have driven vehicles with delphi and Bosch equipped injection units .. i can say bosch is the leader .. with Bosch injection components the engine is a lot smoother and more responsive. I wouldnt be surprised if the safari comes with Both Delphi and Bosch Pump's like the current one in production TVS & Mico :-)

I guess Tata's went with Delphi for development cost .. Since Delphi is relatively new to India compared to Bosch .. and i am sure Delphi would have given a better deal.

Anyway from My Experience i can say " NEVER BUY A TATA @ Launch" ... not because they products are bad .. the Delaers are not provided Adequate training on New Upgrade's .. and since the New Safari has a New Heart it makes it even more difficult for Service Personnel without training to fix fault's.

Though TataMotors takes Direct Customer Complaints seriously the backend operation's are in a bad shape ..

Here is a case ..

My Safari Blew the AC Cooling Coil @ 900Km .. i went to the dealer and he expressed his in ability to change it in a day's time since he did not have spares .. I sent out a mail to tata motors nd Lo .. it was fixed in half a day's time. The cooling coil just appeared in his stock .. just kidding :-) .. they sent out the part on express delivery ..

Next time you guy's have any gripes about serivice send out a mail to Tata Motor's .. you are sure to receive a call from them within a day ....

And guy's guess what .. Tata will probably be the only company who will offer a 3 year / unlimited milage warranty :-) on a Safari in India !!! I have one so its true :-)

One More Case on a 3 month old Indica :-

Symptom : Car stops suddenly with the check engine Light flashing .. Starts after sometime ... stops again ..

Cause : One of the wire leading to the ECU was jammed between the Steering column and the Dash @ the time of Production ..

Time taken to Idnetify the cause - 3 Day's !!!