Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th December 2009, 13:59   #46
BHPian
 
harishnair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Quilon/ Sharjah
Posts: 512
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
The POLO costs 7,50,000 in UK. Imagine what it is going to cost in Inida?

Why doesn't someone tell the manufacturers that if they can't get a hatchback for less than 5 lakhs, please don't waste our time.

Looks like this one is going to promise to dissapoint. We don't need another FABIA and JAZZ competitor, we're looking to slash waiting periods on the SWIFT!
VW has already announced that the Polo is going to be competing with Swift/Punto. The Indian version of the Polo is a lot different from the international one and they have gone in for a lot of cost cutting measures to keep the prices down.

It is high taxes levied by the govt. on imports which result in the high prices of the cars sold in India and there is very little for the manufacturers to do.
harishnair is offline  
Old 28th December 2009, 14:07   #47
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 315 Times
Default

What makes the Polo special and why are we eagerly waiting for it:
  • Underpowered petrol engine (assuming no TSI)
  • Outdated and unrefined diesel engine (assuming PD engine)
  • Overweight for a hatchback compared to Indian hatchback standards
  • average interiors (just going by the scoops)
  • Pricing is speculative but I believe it wont be at Swift levels and would be somewhere between Swift and Punto. If it goes beyond Punto pricing with unexciting engines, it would disappear in the horizon.
Elegant as well as sporty looks is the only thing the Polo scores at.

Finally, what is it that the Polo offers more than the Punto in reality?
dipen is offline  
Old 28th December 2009, 15:40   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
agspins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: MH-31
Posts: 1,571
Thanked: 305 Times
Default

Found these while googling...
Here are links to Polo production at Chakan

VW Polo production begins in Chakan, Pune, India - a set on Flickr
agspins is offline  
Old 28th December 2009, 16:30   #49
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 315 Times
Default

Fabia and Polo in the same rollout lines. So they would share the engines. Bad.
dipen is offline  
Old 28th December 2009, 18:22   #50
BHPian
 
theEnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 534
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
The POLO costs 7,50,000 in UK. Imagine what it is going to cost in Inida?

Why doesn't someone tell the manufacturers that if they can't get a hatchback for less than 5 lakhs, please don't waste our time.

Looks like this one is going to promise to dissapoint. We don't need another FABIA and JAZZ competitor, we're looking to slash waiting periods on the SWIFT!
There are lots of people who are willing to buy (or have already bought) a hatchback for more than 5L. Just because the rear of the car has a different configuration from a saloon does not mean it has to be a cheap car.

You wanna tell Porsche to go home with the Panamera? That's a hatchback too, that some people are paying 1.4 Cr ~ 2.0 Cr for.

Many people (including members of this forum) are willing to pay the price for a 'real' VW Polo, with all the features of the VW Polo sold in Europe. We dont want another cheapened, underpowered car.

If you want a cheap car why not go buy a Tata Indica? No point waiting for a VW for less than 5L... it isn't going to happen.
theEnd is offline  
Old 28th December 2009, 20:40   #51
BHPian
 
twinblades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: bangalore
Posts: 128
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

Its not that companies want to do away with the good stuff in the car. Taxes and market demand determine what features need to be done away it.
I have a question. On an average how much more are we(Indians) paying for our cars. A long time back it used to be around 2 times the cost of the car in other countries. Certain cars like BMW used to be around 125%. Is it still the same or has that changed?

Last edited by twinblades : 28th December 2009 at 20:44.
twinblades is offline  
Old 29th December 2009, 07:31   #52
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: chennai
Posts: 111
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
There are lots of people who are willing to buy (or have already bought) a hatchback for more than 5L. Just because the rear of the car has a different configuration from a saloon does not mean it has to be a cheap car.

You wanna tell Porsche to go home with the Panamera? That's a hatchback too, that some people are paying 1.4 Cr ~ 2.0 Cr for.

Many people (including members of this forum) are willing to pay the price for a 'real' VW Polo, with all the features of the VW Polo sold in Europe. We dont want another cheapened, underpowered car.

If you want a cheap car why not go buy a Tata Indica? No point waiting for a VW for less than 5L... it isn't going to happen.
awesome explanation dude.HIGHLY LOGICAL!
brakehorsepower is offline  
Old 29th December 2009, 12:34   #53
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 315 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
If you want a cheap car why not go buy a Tata Indica? No point waiting for a VW for less than 5L... it isn't going to happen.
At the risk of sounding commanding (purely based on intution), I strongly believe that the Polo base model would be priced below 5 laks ex-showroom Delhi.
Note that the Polo does not have much in its favor apart from being a VW. In the economy segment, masses don't associate German with quality but they regard it as an expensive machine (for its upkeep).

Strong build, fit and finish, high quality interiors are a good-to-have feature in this segment, but not necessarily the deal-maker. Swift has none of these and still is the highest selling car in its segment month over month, year over year (both petrol and diesel). These features just have to be at acceptable levels.

To enjoy good handling, one does need a bit of performance too. Just imagine if we get a 60-70hp petrol engine lugging a near 1100kg kerb weight car.
dipen is offline  
Old 29th December 2009, 13:53   #54
BHPian
 
roms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 640
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
Strong build, fit and finish, high quality interiors are a good-to-have feature in this segment, but not necessarily the deal-maker. Swift has none of these and still is the highest selling car in its segment month over month, year over year (both petrol and diesel). These features just have to be at acceptable levels.

To enjoy good handling, one does need a bit of performance too. Just imagine if we get a 60-70hp petrol engine lugging a near 1100kg kerb weight car.
Well, frankly, we dont really know what will click with the masses and what wont. Take the Hyundai i20 for example. A slow starter due to its higher price tag, but the Honda Jazz's higher price tag suddenly made this premium hatch very desirable, and why not? Its got a bit of everything going for it..looks,quality, refinement, a long list of equipment including six airbags and a sunroof, and surprisingly its a very decent overall drive.

And it comes from India's third biggest car manufacturer which means A.S.S should be more than satisfactory and so will the resale value. Infact, I think its redefined the premium hatch segment and has let other manufacturers realise what the so-called 'aam junta' wants. And especially if you compare the sales figures of the Punto and Jazz in recent months, you realise that the i20 is pretty much the benchmark. The Swift is getting old and IMO its just does not do enough to be called a premium hatch. Does not feel like one either. Its more in the Palio, Aveo U-va, Getz, Indica Vista category. Strictly my opinion.

I drive a Palio 1.6, and to me the i20's 80 bhp 1.2 Kappa feels as fast or even better than the 1.6's 100 bhp motor, atleast till 80 km/h. And comparatively, its very refined even at 90 km/h in 3rd gear as compared to the 1.6! I was shocked to see that from a 1.2 engine. Maybe its difference in engine technology over the past decade, but these seemingly small engines are adequately powerful for the job and very economical and refined at the same time. Engine makers have realised that its high torque at low revs that works in the cut and thrust of our city traffic and are tuning their engines accordingly.

My point is, if the 5-7 lakh i20 can do 3.5k to 4K units month after month, there is no reason why a similarly specced VW Polo can't do as well eventually. I say eventually because VW will have to do some amount of convincing abut its A.S.S and spare parts prices, which in turn will determine resale value. The idea is to not compromise on quality like the Punto. Thats another example. Good driving dynamics, decent petrol motor, good looks but the poor quality control and the consequent niggling issues are not going down too well with the market and its reflecting in the sales. Ofcourse, the brand itself is not a strong one and for that alone, they should not have compromised on the quality.

Last edited by roms : 29th December 2009 at 14:10.
roms is offline  
Old 30th December 2009, 20:14   #55
BHPian
 
Gautam Misra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bhubaneshwar
Posts: 220
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

IMHO this thread may be merged with the following thread-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ecs-price.html

I hope that the Mods may kindly do the needful.
Gautam Misra is offline  
Old 31st December 2009, 09:54   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 2,035
Thanked: 315 Times
Default

@roms
liked the way you expressed your thoughts. totallly unbiased view.

Only think I disagree/doubt is how did you feel the the 1.6 Palio and i20 similar even just till 80. I understand that the Kappa is a refined motor and Palio is a heavy car but still the 1.6 is a torque machine.

Coming back to Polo, I still am very skeptical about its success. European and American autos need to learn how to extract maximum power from naturally aspirated engines. The Japs and Koreans seem to have perfected this art very well.
All Korean and Jap 1.2(s) make 80-90 ps of power with acceptable torque levels.
dipen is offline  
Old 31st December 2009, 17:09   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
khoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dilli
Posts: 2,722
Thanked: 1,253 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
like Andre Rodriguez wrote in the Dec issue of Top Gear, I want my Polo with a 1.8TSI engine with DSG paddle-shifters! I've got a 10L cheque waiting.
What are these journalists paid these days OR are they being paid to write up such irresponsible statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
Fabia and Polo in the same rollout lines. So they would share the engines. Bad.
Not necessarily. Cars may be assembeled on the same line but the parts can always be picked up from different bins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
What makes the Polo special and why are we eagerly waiting for it:
  • Underpowered petrol engine (assuming no TSI)
  • Outdated and unrefined diesel engine (assuming PD engine)
  • Overweight for a hatchback compared to Indian hatchback standards
  • average interiors (just going by the scoops)
  • Pricing is speculative but I believe it wont be at Swift levels and would be somewhere between Swift and Punto. If it goes beyond Punto pricing with unexciting engines, it would disappear in the horizon.
Elegant as well as sporty looks is the only thing the Polo scores at.
Finally, what is it that the Polo offers more than the Punto in reality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
At the risk of sounding commanding (purely based on intution), I strongly believe that the Polo base model would be priced below 5 laks ex-showroom Delhi.
Note that the Polo does not have much in its favor apart from being a VW. In the economy segment, masses don't associate German with quality but they regard it as an expensive machine (for its upkeep).

Strong build, fit and finish, high quality interiors are a good-to-have feature in this segment, but not necessarily the deal-maker. Swift has none of these and still is the highest selling car in its segment month over month, year over year (both petrol and diesel). These features just have to be at acceptable levels.

To enjoy good handling, one does need a bit of performance too. Just imagine if we get a 60-70hp petrol engine lugging a near 1100kg kerb weight car.
+1 to both of your posts above and from the shocker of a price tag on the current Jetta variants and given the stripped down Petrol version that is being offered I believe this is exactly what is going to happen in Polo's case.
khoj is offline  
Old 31st December 2009, 19:16   #58
BHPian
 
theEnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 534
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
What are these journalists paid these days OR are they being paid to write up such irresponsible statements.
What's so irresponsible about wanting a car with a powerful engine? And being willing to pay the right price for it?
theEnd is offline  
Old 31st December 2009, 21:19   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
khoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dilli
Posts: 2,722
Thanked: 1,253 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd View Post
What's so irresponsible about wanting a car with a powerful engine? And being willing to pay the right price for it?
And how does the journalist know the right price?

Note from Mod : Team-BHP's VW Polo Testdrive report has been uploaded at this linky. Please continue the discussion over on that thread.

This thread = closed.

Last edited by GTO : 27th February 2010 at 01:03. Reason: Adding thread closure note
khoj is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014 Porsche Panamera saloon getting ready for Shanghai Auto Show sarathlal The International Automotive Scene 0 11th March 2013 20:20
Need help for getting my Gypsy 'Rally-ready' Gentle Giant 4x4 Vehicles 2 31st January 2012 12:41
Kerala SRTC Online booking portal getting ready ? joecherian Street Experiences 7 19th January 2010 17:49
SAE 2009: all-electric Tata Indica getting ready for Norway, then the world frankmehta The Indian Car Scene 18 18th September 2009 21:11
European patent office leaks final preproduction Suzuki Kizashi sedan sketches sidindica The International Automotive Scene 9 12th September 2008 21:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:16.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks