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Old 8th July 2009, 15:39   #451
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Hahaha....

I love this thread!

I dont think even the Hyundai management gave as much thought to the i20 prices as we all are in this thread!!
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Old 8th July 2009, 15:46   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
Many comments on the forum say that Indians have a snob value for Sedans. Just curious to know do hatches sell more or Sedans sell more, particularly in DEVELOPED countries?
What I saw - In Australia, I've seen mostly the Sedans only, very very few negligible hatches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb10gagan View Post
A hatch in developed country is not restricted to sub 4 meter length (some 5 meter station wagons can technically be called hatchbacks).
Ok. for simplicity in understanding & from our perspective, if we keep defination of "hatch" as sub-4 meter (not including 5 meter station wagons), then which sells more in Developed countries - these "smaller" Hatches or Sedans?
Say in UK, US, Canada, Switzerland, Sweden, Italy, South Africa, Australia - curious to know someone's feedback who has visited these countries & observed it or lives there.
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Old 8th July 2009, 15:54   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmshaw View Post
After going through the threads on Punto, Jazz, i20 P and now i20 D, I observe that there is something or the other which the general members are unhappy about with each.

Punto has most favorable comments amongst the 3, based on it being a Fiat, lower price compared to the others, but taken a beating on interior quality and A.S.S.

Jazz is underequipped, overpriced but gives one quality and brand equity.

i20 falls somewhere between the above 2, a balancing act. The 1.2 P has all going for it except price and engine. General view - wait for a better engine.

Now that i20 D is here - All the i20P +ves, plus a good 1.4 CRDi (first impressions). -ves? Ofcourse still the price, because... [One can add n number of reasons from the brand to it being just a hatchback, to more expensive than Fiat MJD etc etc].

I couldn't help but think, what are we really expecting of a premium hatchback? Super engine, loaded to the gills, quality but priced at a discount such that one doesn't get into that mindset of 'I can pay just xxx extra and get a sedan'?
Isn't it wishful thinking that we can get all we desire at OUR price??
I think you have summarized the whole discussion brilliantly. The big problem is people trying to come to terms that "Hatch In India" costs 8L too.. We cant yet digest this fact as we consider hatch to be small car (marutis, matizz, santros...). It is just matter of time...
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Old 8th July 2009, 16:02   #454
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Well Its not really comparable e.g in most of these developed countries people drive automatics which dont sell much in India.

The sedans there are often door versions while those wont be much popular here The list is long. What suits us may not suit them & vice versa.
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Old 8th July 2009, 16:05   #455
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Lived in US for 4 years.
The americans ridicule small cars ... the bigger the better for them. Not many hatches there. Their wide roads, cheap petrol prices all re-inforce this thinking.

VW Beetle/Mini cooper were the only hatchbacks that were popular (more as a fancy car), but 9/10 times you see only girls behind the wheel.

many people buy the sporty 2-Door coupe sedans too. And as far as 4-dr sedans considered, corolla/civic/lancer/Altima etc are generally considered the starting-level sedans.

Last edited by neotraveller : 8th July 2009 at 16:08.
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Old 8th July 2009, 16:16   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhasin View Post
..... and "Sunroof" on their cars. We all know the NO-NOs associated with sunroofs if they are done in aftermarket... Which other manufacturer south of 11 lacs gives you a sunroof?
The Skoda Fabia provides sunroof and well is under 11 lakhs [8L, infact for 1.4 petrol and 8.9 for diesel].

Why, you're forgetting the very own brand you're rooting for, here.. Don't some variants of the the Hyundai i10 come with Sunroof? And well under 11 lakhs?
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Old 8th July 2009, 16:45   #457
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In my view, Hyundai has lost a golden opportunity to create another volume seller after the Santro / i10 by sticking a premium price on the i20. How long can they flog the Santro for volume? They need a new volume seller and I was hoping the i20 will be the one. Sadly that is not to be.

the i20 is a very good car with all the bells and whistles. Its just a question of will you pay premium money for this or go to other models at the same price - the Dzire ZDi has most of the i20s features (save for side / curtain airbags and sunroof) for the same price and comes with a. National Engine and b. the all important boot
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:04   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotraveller View Post
Lived in US for 4 years.
The americans ridicule small cars ... the bigger the better for them. Not many hatches there. Their wide roads, cheap petrol prices all re-inforce this thinking.

VW Beetle/Mini cooper were the only hatchbacks that were popular (more as a fancy car), but 9/10 times you see only girls behind the wheel.

many people buy the sporty 2-Door coupe sedans too. And as far as 4-dr sedans considered, corolla/civic/lancer/Altima etc are generally considered the starting-level sedans.
Not only Americans, What I saw in Australia is hardly any small hatches, & my guess is list will be long in pther developed countries too.

Forget Developed countries, Bangkok (Thailand) also has mostly Sedans with Toyota Corrola serving as Taxi's (fare is almost comparable to Mumbai Taxi fare of 30-yr old Padmini's)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
What suits us may not suit them & vice versa.
Exactly. My question is why we do say that INDIANs have snob value for Sedans. How do we conclude what suits us? Do we say smaller hatch suits us - why? Is it because when Car industry evolved in India, it started with Fiat, M800 & then other "affordable" hatches & looking at Income distribution of our population, those are the most affordable cars for larger part of population? Do we say this? If the answer is yes, then Hatch is selling more here because IT IS (or WAS?) CONSIDERED TO BE AFFORDABLE.
Its only now that these premium hatches are priced in upper band that this debate gained momentum.
But then the issue is why do we compare a top-end hatch with a low-end sedan to drive home a point? Why can't we compare Apple to Apple?
e.g. Punto E+ is to be compared with Linea E+
i20 Asta (O) CRDI is to be compared with Verna top-end (with additional cost of Airbags in Verna)
Jazz? - Well, nothing to compare about . Can't compare with ANHC as Jazz has only 1.2 Engine

Sedan is not only a "Hatch+Boot". One of the most imp parameter is the safety on highway. Then there are other parameters Ride & Handling Qualities etc. Only Punto compares with Sedans in these parameters of safety & highway manners.
Then why do we accuse INDIANs to have a snob value for Sedan? Isn't it actually a fact that Sedan is several notches above the comparable Hatch?

Last edited by VahanPujari : 8th July 2009 at 17:09.
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:09   #459
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Arent we getting any official team bhp TD of i20 diesel? Am waiting for it.

Autocar has commented that "performance isnt earth shattering with 5000 rpm redline on tacho, neither the i20 D has responsiveness of 1.4 duratorq nor the revv happy nature of 1.3 multijet, only the mid range is strong which will help in overtakings"

Am quite surprised, with 90bhp on the tap i expect i20 to fare really well in performance segment because gross weight is not too much.. Dont know, zigwhels is famous for messing TD's, is ACI the same?
Think only tbhp TD can solve the mystery now.

Last edited by coolboy007 : 8th July 2009 at 17:10.
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:11   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
premium brand image of Hyundai?

I am sure Maruti commands a better brand image compared to Hyundai in India!

If Maruti can price Swift, Ritz at reasonable levels, why is Hyundai overpricing their cars?
IMHO they are committing the same blunder they did with Getz earlier, instead of pitching Getz against Swift, they thought Santro is good enough for Swift and happilly overpriced Getz!
And we know the results!

Hyundai has a better image than most other companies in India, bar a few. Atleast nobody is 'scared' to go in for an i20, just because its a hyundai. This happens with some other companies, where customers are scared to go for a car, because is made by a certain company. get my drift??

Unless one is extremely stupid or blind, one can easily make out why Hyundai cars are more expensive than maruti, within 5 minutes of sitting inside both!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
Don't think you can write a lie in this forum and get away with it. the 1.6 was never priced at 6L. Even the limited edition S10 was 5.75 ex. And that was the premium for the signature of GOD. The top end GTX had Alloys, ABS and Airbag.
Brother, I do not believe in this pointless blabber, i state something, which i've got facts for. And nobody is telling lies to you and getting away with it.


Current price after discounts of the 1.6 sport is around 4lac. (On road). Just confirmed this with a dealer here.

Attached herewith are the Pages 21 and 162 of Autocar india January 2002 edition, which carried the test of the palio S10 and 1.2sport. Price mentioned for the S10 is 5.90lac (est) and it was the same price initially in Cochin. The price of the GTX (not safety pack) is 5.41. Both are ex showroom, and non abs versions. Add atleast 50-60k for taxes etc. Now, are they still under 6l?? Unless you are referring to ex showroom prices. I don not have any connection where i can own the car by paying the ex showroom amount. Do you??

Hyundai i20 Diesel and 1.4 petrol EDIT: Now Launched..!!!-08072009826.jpg

Hyundai i20 Diesel and 1.4 petrol EDIT: Now Launched..!!!-08072009827.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
The pricing is on the high side agreed but it is not that bad.

Look at this way. If I were to buy a Swift at 6.2L with ABS and then add alloys and wider tyres for 50K, then some decent ICE for 30K, remote locking and some other stuff, I would have spent close to 7L. Still I would not get airbags, climate control, electrical mirrors, rear wash wipe, tilt and telescoping steering, onboard trip computer, steering mounted audio controls. With the i20 I get all the above features, 15bhp more, better quality interiors, more space compared to swift, lesser rattles and more.

I think 1L is justifiable when compared to swift. The 80K extra compared to the Punto makes the i20 look expensive since both are similarly speced. Once i drive the Punto MJD and i20CRDi I will be in a better position to decide whether the i20 commands the premium.

Excatly. Finally brilliant post vid. Atleast now people will stip comparing the i20 with the swift and ritz!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minardi View Post
Makes logical sense, but i doubt whether it works that way in practice. Someone who has a budget of 8L in the first place, will not even think of a 6.2L Swift. And I doubt he/she will even look at a hatch in the first place.

It is those, who have a budget of a max 6 L, stretch it out to 6.2L to buy a Swift. Then they are too broke to add anything else

Again, very true. This car is targetted at a different audience, why cant the others get this point??

Quote:
Originally Posted by live2drive View Post
Heh! I wonder if this is an i20 thread anymore. It's more of FIAT vs HYUNDAI.
Come on guys no point bashing FIAT or HYUNDAI. Wonder why FIAT fanboys are bashing i20 everywhere on the forum.
Let the choice be left to an individual who wanna buy these cars and pay the so called *premium* to show off the i20 in their garages.
Its always like this. theay always want everyone to keep praising fiat cars and press opinions down upon them Naturally, the others aren't stupid, and if by any chance they react, the fanboys start a royal war and completely muddle up the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmbabu View Post
Come on, you really don't know why? Don't you remember the famous Onida tagline?
THE best answer one can give!!

Last edited by JayD : 8th July 2009 at 17:17.
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:37   #461
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[quote=neotraveller;1375737]Lived in US for 4 years.
The americans ridicule small cars ... the bigger the better for them. Not many hatches there. Their wide roads, cheap petrol prices all re-inforce this thinking.

No they do not. Which is why the American automobile industry has collapsed. GM has collapsed partly because all they did was build bigger and bigger. Their consumers have abandoned them. The Americans have switched to smaller more fuel efficient cars. Their small cars are not as small as our M800 or Santro but still smaller than what they used to drive (Hummers, Trucks etc).
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:37   #462
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1.6 Sport at 4L on road? I would like to buy two. I am sure you are talking about the Stile 1.1

S10 retailed for 5.75 ex showroom and 6.5 onroad in Bangalore. I know, because I bought one. And as I said before, S10 was a limited edition and that was sold at that price because of the Signature of GOD.

GTX sold for 5.22 according to your pic. So they reduced the prices from 5.22 ex to 4.2 ex. Not from 6 ex to 4 ex.

And there are quite a no of differences between the GTX and the Stile sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Current price after discounts of the 1.6 sport is around 4lac. (On road). Just confirmed this with a dealer here.

Attached herewith are the Pages 21 and 162 of Autocar india January 2002 edition, which carried the test of the palio S10 and 1.2sport. Price mentioned for the S10 is 5.90lac (est) and it was the same price initially in Cochin. The price of the GTX (not safety pack) is 5.41. Both are ex showroom, and non abs versions. Add atleast 50-60k for taxes etc. Now, are they still under 6l?? Unless you are referring to ex showroom prices. I don not have any connection where i can own the car by paying the ex showroom amount. Do you??

Last edited by ashwinpak : 8th July 2009 at 17:39.
 
Old 8th July 2009, 17:47   #463
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OK... I am trying to simplify things here by assuming a typical situation.
  • I am well-heeled executive who can afford a car worth Rs 8 lakhs, despite recession.
  • I drive 60 km a day (quite normal in Delhi especially the people who work in Gurgaon and live in Delhi) and I want a fuel efficient diesel car.
  • I want comfortable interiors which look fresh (and uncommon) and good as well as lots of interior space for wife, small toddler and parents / in-laws .
  • I also want all the safety equipment for my highway drives on weekends to my in-laws' / relatives' places, and for the same reason I want a big boot and lots of storage cubby holes for Bisleri bottles.
  • The car should fit in my cramped DDA / apartment / plotted housing parking space which is just enough for my neighbours' Palio / Swift / GP / Getz. The sedan owners are hated for occupying too much space anyway.
  • Occasionally (esp on the highway and Delhi-Gurgaon Expressway) I remember my Pulsar / RX100 days and like to surprise that pesky Tavera cab.
The i20 CRDi ticks all the boxes. No other car (I think) does that so well. Not even the Jazz especially the 2nd and last point.

disclaimer: I can only imagine this situation; None of the points above except the last one are applicable in my case.
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:47   #464
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Such high prices for a i20. Perhaps the pricing has been decided taking into account the extra cash put into the pockets of the few after the budget. Some will be caught, but perhaps the shoe can be on the other foot also. Perhaps, people who were planning to buy a Hyundai have been suddenly been give tax breaks, and may now go for a Jazz. This is very likely if we consider Hyundai's Europe chief recent statement about being on i20 in Europe because of people trading down to a Hyundai.

Last edited by vasudeva : 8th July 2009 at 17:49.
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Old 8th July 2009, 17:54   #465
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We can keep arguing over the prices for the rest of our lives but the past few launches of Hyundai show that they are trying to position their cars higher then Maruti , Tata and Fiat cars. I think they are probably trying to position themselves as makers of premium cars that are better then the lowly Maruti's, Tata's and Fiat's and I feel they are willing to sacrifice volumes for getting that image. i10 is priced higher then A-Star, Getz was priced higher then Swift, i20 is priced way higher then Ritz and Punto and the Verna is priced higher then Fiesta and Linea.
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