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Old 21st June 2009, 13:40   #46
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[quote=CBlazer;1355964]They should understand that there is now a definite market in India for premium diesel hatches.

Really? How many premium diesel Fusions and Fabias do you see on road? When we have good looking and sanely priced diesel Swifts/Puntos/Vistas around, who needs these so called premium diesel hatches?
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Old 21st June 2009, 13:48   #47
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For all you know they will launch the diesel variant but only in the base Magna trim. So no abs+EBD, no airbags, no alloys, no foldable mirrors, no rear wiper/washer, no electric mirrors and no steering controls. All this with piddly tyres as well.
I sure hope not or the Swift and Getz diesel story will be repeated with the Punto and i20. As it is, Hyundai first allowed Maruti and now Fiat to get a headstart in the premium diesel hatch segment. By december-Jan, if Fiat play their cards well, the Punto will be established in the market as THE premium diesel hatch to buy. Hyundai will then not only have to offer all the Punto features but go one step ahead and give something extra to entice buyers into their showrooms.

They could do that with a 90bhp diesel engine. Fiat could respond with a 1.6L 110bhp one which would make Hyundai come up with the 1.5L 110bhp one which would make Fiat offer a 1.6L 120bhp one and so on .

Going by what Hyundai is doing, I think they are a bit lost and unsure of what to give in the Indian market. I get the feeling that they want to position themselves higher then Maruti and Fiat in our market and hence I feel that even if the i20 comes with all the Punto features, it may end up costing a good 70-100K more then an equivalent Punto.

Last edited by amit : 21st June 2009 at 13:49.
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Old 21st June 2009, 15:11   #48
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
When we have good looking and sanely priced diesel Swifts/Puntos/Vistas around, who needs these so called premium diesel hatches?
That's like saying "When we have good looking and sanely priced Sonata's/Accords/Camrys around, who needs Mercs, Audis and BMWs?"

I believe there is a genuine market for premium hatches. There are a lot of people out there, living in congested cities, who do not have space to park big cars, yet want all the luxury features of a big car. Premium hatches fit right in.
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Old 21st June 2009, 16:31   #49
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Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
That's like saying "When we have good looking and sanely priced Sonata's/Accords/Camrys around, who needs Mercs, Audis and BMWs?"

I believe there is a genuine market for premium hatches. There are a lot of people out there, living in congested cities, who do not have space to park big cars, yet want all the luxury features of a big car. Premium hatches fit right in.
Mate, Hyundai is by no stretch of imagination a premium brand. They thave tried positioning themselves as such and failed miserably. To most Indians, Hyundai means, inexpensive ,low maintainence low to mid end cars. That is the reason their forays in the c and D segments have been failures even when the same products have done pretty well in the US and European markets.
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Old 21st June 2009, 16:57   #50
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Really? How many premium diesel Fusions and Fabias do you see on road?
They're not there because the said brands have legendary commitment towards keeping their customer happy post-sale.

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Mate, Hyundai is by no stretch of imagination a premium brand.
That doesn't disqualify the i20 as a premium hatch. Don't confuse brand image with product segmentation. Maybe the Sonata bracket might not exactly be Hyundai's ghetto but 7 lakhs+fantastic product is very much their playing turf.

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Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
I believe there is a genuine market for premium hatches. There are a lot of people out there, living in congested cities, who do not have space to park big cars, yet want all the luxury features of a big car. Premium hatches fit right in.
Completely agree with you there.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 21st June 2009 at 17:03.
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Old 21st June 2009, 17:08   #51
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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Mate, Hyundai is by no stretch of imagination a premium brand. They thave tried positioning themselves as such and failed miserably. To most Indians, Hyundai means, inexpensive ,low maintainence low to mid end cars. That is the reason their forays in the c and D segments have been failures even when the same products have done pretty well in the US and European markets.
According to you, expensive, high on maintainance car brands are eligible to be classified under *premium* brands?
Just curious to know, what's your USP of judging premium brands?

And if the same products have done well in the US and European markets, then according to your theory HYUNDAI should be tagged as a premium brand. Confused? eh.
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Old 21st June 2009, 17:17   #52
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How big is the premium hatch segment? Can we say a hatch above Rs.6.0L is a premium hatch?, as we start getting sedan's at these prices. Looking at the best sellers quantities (maruti swift)all the manufacturers must be just aiming at these volumes (i.e the masses). Hence will we get a 90bhp i20 or a punto is a big Q.
IMO i20 will be released with a 75 bhp motor at a very competitive price.
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Old 21st June 2009, 17:43   #53
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I think that car companies should announce in advance about new models..

i20 CRDi is not a new development / model for hyundai. They should be in a good position to estimate when they can launch it ...

For e.g. If tommorow Hyundai announce i20 diesel by say sept-oct , i will definitely postpone my purchase until the launch. I am sure others will too.

Last edited by AbhiJ : 21st June 2009 at 17:45.
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Old 21st June 2009, 18:07   #54
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A premium hatch is all about a premium feel, equipment/features offered, quality of materials used. Nothing really to do with a brand. No reason why brand A or B should not make a premium hatch. Of course the onus is on the manufacturer to follow up with the right A.S.S., etc. as with any other car. I do believe manufacturers should also offer bigger engines in these hatches apart from the so called engines for the masses.

I totally agree that congestion in urban areas will make this a very important segment for all manufacturers.

Last edited by CBlazer : 21st June 2009 at 18:11.
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Old 21st June 2009, 18:41   #55
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Originally Posted by kiren View Post
How big is the premium hatch segment? Can we say a hatch above Rs.6.0L is a premium hatch?, as we start getting sedan's at these prices. Looking at the best sellers quantities (maruti swift)all the manufacturers must be just aiming at these volumes (i.e the masses). Hence will we get a 90bhp i20 or a punto is a big Q.
IMO i20 will be released with a 75 bhp motor at a very competitive price.
IIRC,Hyundai India CEO/MD mentioned in one of the interviews (few months back) that they will be bringing in 74BHP 1.4CRDI and will be priced around 80K premium above the current petrol versions.

Last edited by cruiser_1982 : 21st June 2009 at 18:50.
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Old 21st June 2009, 21:17   #56
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I know at-least 3 people who are waiting for diesel premium hatches like the i20 to launch, just because they have limited parking spaces in their apartments and therefore cannot park a sedan. And almost 90% of Swift VDi owners on this forum will agree that they hate the fact that there wasn't and still isn't a ZDi variant. Now Maruti is no premium brand either, but people who buy a Maruti too want premium features.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 11:11   #57
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Originally Posted by newcoolgadgets View Post
I know at-least 3 people who are waiting for diesel premium hatches like the i20 to launch, just because they have limited parking spaces in their apartments and therefore cannot park a sedan. And almost 90% of Swift VDi owners on this forum will agree that they hate the fact that there wasn't and still isn't a ZDi variant. Now Maruti is no premium brand either, but people who buy a Maruti too want premium features.
Count me in that group. A premium diesel hatch which is fun to drive and offers all the safety features is what I am after. DZire with it's quirky styling does not appeal to me. Punto is exciting, but I would wait and watch what Hyundai does, before deciding. i.e if they do it fast enough.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 11:25   #58
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
They could do that with a 90bhp diesel engine. Fiat could respond with a 1.6L 110bhp one which would make Hyundai come up with the 1.5L 110bhp one which would make Fiat offer a 1.6L 120bhp one and so on .
Pretty wishful thinking eh?
Sine when did companies start responding to more powerful engines of competitors.
Hyundai has a 110BHP verna, but Fiat did not launch 110bhp linea, did they.
Fiat did not launch palio with more horses than the getz crdi, or swift diesel?
India is primarily a economy market.
Few fiat enthusiasts can cry hoarse about the 1.6L 100 horse engine from Palio, but Fiat will look at the masses. In fact anybody would look at the masses.
Hyundai has been the only exception with getz crdi, and verna crdi, but they are learning.
The FE oriented i10/i20 with help from Mr Khan are aimed at the FE crowd. If you want to sell in India you have to appeal to FE crowd.
Here even a 20L car tries to showcase FE as its main appeal.

Make a car which gets better or equal FE to competitors, does not need to see the service station for more than once in 10K kms, and is within 20K of the competition you have a winner.

Unfortunately nobody has really cracked this. Tata makes a good FE Vista, which is cheaper and more VFM, but be assured that you will visit the service station more than once in 10K kms.
Hyundai will ensure no visits to service station but will cost more. Ditto to Honda.
Maruti seems to have struck a balance atleast in the budget hatch segment. Boring, non exciting boxy cars which totally lack any "appeal", yet they sell.

Swift has been their only foray into excitement, but guess what has the waiting list? The diesel!

This country buys cars to commute, not to drive. Thats why companies make commuters, and look at the history of Automobile in India, the commuters have been successful.
Until driving becomes a recreational activity also, this is not going to change.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:09   #59
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update:

i had booked a getz crdi, the dealer intially said that it would be delivered in 15 days.
now the dealer says that they have for now, put on hold the deliveries of getz crdi.
the possible reason he suspects in the impending release of i20 crdi 1.4, because they want the customers to have a look at i20 diesel also.
he was not sure of the price but engine is going to be 1.4 liters.
now hyundai says that my getz crdi will only be alloted to dealer by june end.
so by interpretation i guess i20 crdi should be out by end of this month.
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Old 22nd June 2009, 17:30   #60
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Originally Posted by pb10gagan View Post
i had booked a getz crdi, the dealer intially said that it would be delivered in 15 days.
now the dealer says that they have for now, put on hold the deliveries of getz crdi.
the possible reason he suspects in the impending release of i20 crdi 1.4, because they want the customers to have a look at i20 diesel also.
I don't think that could be the reason. Wouldn't Hyundai want to off load all Getz diesel cars before launching the i20? Or is Hyundai planning to sell both Getz and i20 diesel together?
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