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Old 3rd June 2005, 11:01   #31
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Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Well there are quite a few people who hate the Petra because of Fiat. Dunno about Skoda though. Even the Indica/Indigo have theirbunch of haters. I think it is a matter of who is local and who is not. The most vocal people will have their opinions heard more. That's all.
I don't like using the word 'HATE'. I always say ' Petra is good as a car' but as a package it is not a good deal though.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 11:26   #32
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this is an enthusiast forum. so come out with a 200Bhp cat for 15lakhs and everybody will drool. However nake a 53HP 3lac car they will pooh pooh not looking at VFM. Hyundai is the most hated manufacturer on this forum. Second in place come Tata and Fiat. Tata because they make cars which are totally VFM offering nothing to enthusiast. For fiat we do not need reasons. Infact i find it very ironic that the tata petrol powerplant is easily capable of 100bhp+ with minor mods(it does 85 in stock indigo) but most people write it off. Understood that tata has quality problems but most of them are minor problems and there customer supports makes up for that many times over. Also look at how much they have improved.
I would not give any credit to maruti or for that matter any other foreign manufacturer. How many of these cars are actually designed in India!?
Enough of my ranting. the threads going offtopic.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 11:30   #33
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Originally Posted by SMG
As far as new product launches are concerned they already have an appropriate car for every segment, right from entry level to luxury sedan to SUV. Since Sep 2004 (9 months) , they launched Getz, Tucson and a modified Santro, Within a very near future modified Accents and Sonatas are coming so what else you want then?
Yeah, but how many cars they are selling in each segment is a different matter altogether, which does matter right?? Its not sufficient to have a great portfolio of vehicles, you should be able to sell those in the market too..

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Originally Posted by SMG
And towards pricing, I believe Hyundai’s pricing is already reasonable. Discounts and price restructuring do happen every now and then. Any manufacturer (not necessarily car makers) will want to cash on novelty so there is nothing wrong if Hyundai initially charged more for Getz and now offering some discounts. What pricing structure do you have in mind then?
If the prices are reasonable, why are the discounts in place.. Get your story straight dude.. Decide on a price and then stick to it.. Resale value is also a big factor for brand creation.. Look at Daewoo, their resale value even in 97-98 was comparable to the B-segment vehicles.. And Daewoo had also offered discounts, as well as their prices were hugely negotiable.. No wonder they went bankrupt..

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Originally Posted by SMG
Hyundai started as a totally unknown brand and in less than a decade they became second largest carmaker in this country! No, not because of luck factor, they do have some concrete plans laid out based on very strategic thinking. Well thought product mix, (right from entry level to Luxury sedan to SUV), an excellent After Sales Support network and very imaginative, clever marketing, all contribute towards their success of today and tomorrow.
Yeah right, Hyundai simply cashed on the success of Maruti, since people were looking for alternatives.. Most people who bought Hyundai santros were image conscious and didn't want to be seen in an M800 and could not afford the Esteem also shahrukh khan played some part in Hyundai's success.. During the same time, Hyundai had a tough time selling its products in the Europe, USA thats the reason they decided to concentrate just on the Indian market.. Clever gameplan, But Hyundai succeeded only because other global players were initially reluctant in entering the Indian market..

I agree that Hyundai had used clever strategies in the past and launched some pretty neat products.. No body is debating that.. The point is pricing.. Hyundai should decide a price and then stick to it.. Remember your customer is your best advertisor.. And the price-cuts to promote sales criteria might work in Korea, but it doesn't work in India for a longer period of time.. Eventually the company ends up losing sales..
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Old 3rd June 2005, 11:53   #34
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Originally Posted by man23ish
Yeah, but how many cars they are selling in each segment is a different matter altogether, which does matter right?? Its not sufficient to have a great portfolio of vehicles, you should be able to sell those in the market too..
man23ish, did you checked car sales statistics before posting this? I believe not , for your kind information :

Santro sold 103K in 2004-5! This is comparable to M-800 (116K), Indiaca (105K), Wagon-R (73161), and forum favorite Palio sold only 3984!!

Accent sold 40991, this is also comparable to Indigo (39000), Ikon (21883) , Esteem (21848), NHC (32766) and much better than Baleno (7785), Lancer (3690), corsa (4594) ... And all time forum favarite Siena / Petra 1443!!


Getz sold 9853 in just 7 months! While Fusion sold 833 in 4 months!!

Elantra sold 4523, compare this with Octy (6882), Optra (8628), corolla (9861), not bad performance either.

Sonata sold 870 , compare this with Camry (844), Mondeo (45) Superb (237), Vectra (46)

Still you want to say " you should be able to sell those in the market too.. " ?
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:01   #35
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Originally Posted by man23ish
If the prices are reasonable, why are the discounts in place.. Get your story straight dude.. Decide on a price and then stick to it.. Resale value is also a big factor for brand creation.. Look at Daewoo, their resale value even in 97-98 was comparable to the B-segment vehicles.. And Daewoo had also offered discounts, as well as their prices were hugely negotiable.. No wonder they went bankrupt..
.
Who told you that Daewoo went bankrupt because of Discounts!!

Hyundai discounts are as simple as Maruti discounts . Then why Maruti slashed Baleno prices from 800 k to 650K , what kind of discount is it? Do yopu know price cuts in Versa price? Price is often a flexible thing and a dynamic company always keep adjusting prices based on 'demand-Supply cycles' and 'Seasons' and so.

Why car ? How about Cell Phones, TV, Computers?

Tell me one sinle brand ,not necessarily car which has got a rigid price throughout its life span?
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:01   #36
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Don't want to get into Pro-Hyundai or Anti-Hyundai debate. But would like to draw attention to other such instances :

1. Maruti : Baleno price was cut off by almost 3 Lakhs from original price.
2. Fiat : Fiat rebadged Sienna to Petra and offered heavy discounts.

Of course, Hyundai does price restructuring more often than others. But, that is clever marketing strategy considering Indian buyer's mindset. All corporates (not just automobiles) will do that at some time or other.

Edit Note: SMG, you seem to raced ahead of me to point it out.

Last edited by RX135 : 3rd June 2005 at 12:03.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:06   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
this is an enthusiast forum. so come out with a 200Bhp car for 15lakhs and everybody will drool. However make a 53HP 3lac car they will pooh pooh not looking at VFM.

Tata because they make cars which are totally VFM offering nothing to enthusiast. Infact i find it very ironic that the tata petrol powerplant is easily capable of 100bhp+ with minor mods(it does 85 in stock indigo) but most people write it off. Understood that tata has quality problems but most of them are minor problems and their customer supports makes up for that many times over. Also look at how much they have improved.
Well, some of us seem to be enthusiastic about VFM

Brand image, while not important to some, is extremely important to others.

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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:07   #38
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WagonR/Zen you will find that Hyundai has been much better in the game.
But on this forum i have seen that hyundai is hated for silly reasons like the the Sonata looking too much like an accord and Maruti is loved for one model in 12 years!
Play a Bugger game - Elantra.. LOL Well TSK what can i say?? Maruti Zen still lives up to its name. Compare it with a Santro. The zen is faster, pepier, more fuel efficient then the Santro and dead realiable.

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200Bhp car for 15lakhs and everybody will drool
I have seen that more people drool on the RS rather then the Accord V6 which does produce 220BhP so thats untrue that people will drool on a 200BHP car..

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However make a 53HP 3lac car they will pooh pooh not looking at VFM.
You are talking about the Indica i am sure?? I agree it is Fuel efficient. But what about the refinement and performance. Its even slower then a Zen Peugot or a Esteem peugot. Poor refinement and too noisy.

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Hyundai is the most hated manufacturer on this forum. Second in place come Tata and Fiat.
Who ever said that? Reason for hating hyundai is that they aim to lauch quantity cars and not quality. Elantra is such a cheap car. Looks worst then even a Petra as far as interiors are concerned. Plus ther stupid advertisment which is really pissing people of their mind.

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Tata because they make cars which are totally VFM offering nothing to enthusiast.
and this forum is full of enthusiats?????

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Infact i find it very ironic that the tata petrol powerplant is easily capable of 100bhp+ with minor mods(it does 85 in stock indigo) but most people write it off. Understood that tata has quality problems but most of them are minor problems
Quality is what people are looking for. NHC produces 77bhp and has a power to weight of 74.xx but it has quality. Well the tata indigo petrol is capable no doubt but what will you do with 100+bhp with such poor handling and poor brakes. In order to reach 100 - 0 you need brakes as well. No wonder i see NHC Vtec being a total failure comapred to OHC vtec since it doesnot have the same dynamics and yeah people prefer to mod Suzukis rather then Tatas..




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I would say wagonR is going down
Not at all. In fact wagon R beat Santro in sales in some month which led to 5 seater campaign by hyundai.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:10   #39
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but of late i seem to seeing a LOT of elantras on mumbai roads...all of a sudden. while on that, are there any elantra owners on this forum?
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:13   #40
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Originally Posted by man23ish


Yeah right, Hyundai simply cashed on the success of Maruti, since people were looking for alternatives.. Most people who bought Hyundai santros were image conscious and didn't want to be seen in an M800 and could not afford the Esteem also shahrukh khan played some part in Hyundai's success.. During the same time, Hyundai had a tough time selling its products in the Europe, USA thats the reason they decided to concentrate just on the Indian market.. Clever gameplan, But Hyundai succeeded only because other global players were initially reluctant in entering the Indian market..

.

Hyundai cashing on Maruti's success? How you relate this? Hyundai offered a better product than M-800 , and even at a premium people bought it in tons. Tata motors got Indica on a different theme Maruti price , Amby's space, it clicked!

So both Tata and Hyundai are successful in knowing the pulse of the market and delivering a product that people are interested in.

I am in US and see Accents, Sonatas and Elantra every day, they doing well , although not in the tune of Honda / Totota but their presence is felt.

If you say , Hyundai came to India because they couldn't do better in US and Eurpoe , then what about Suzuki , Maruti's partner? Do you know how they are doing in US? Then you also want to say that FORD came to India because they are making losses in US!!!
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:14   #41
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Originally Posted by SMG
I don't like using the word 'HATE'. I always say ' Petra is good as a car' but as a package it is not a good deal though.
Well, I was not pointing you or anyone else out.

And if you hate the Petra, you have reason too and I respect that. What I am trying to say is that people have opinions and the ones who shout loudest get heard. Hyundai maybe the most hated manufacturer here but that is not hurting their sales. Fiat mayb the most loved, but that is not improving their sales. So why bother? LOL
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:15   #42
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but of late i seem to seeing a LOT of elantras on mumbai roads...all of a sudden. while on that, are there any elantra owners on this forum
Thanx to it being sold at 2lacs discount..
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:39   #43
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Originally Posted by Montoya
Thanx to it being sold at 2lacs discount..
Yes, Montoya , See the magic of discounts, I also started seeing lots of Balenos on the street now-a-days , thanks to being sold at 250K+ discount! and lots of Versa too, Oh God discounts here too?

Baleno (yes, the highly regarded car over here) , before that 250K discount sold 603 only in 2003-2004, Yes I repeate it sold just 603 in year 2003-2004 and after that price cut ( I call it as a discount though) sold 7785 in 2004-2005! Versa jumped from 1947 to 4376!!


Poor Maruti , it is going bankrupt now because of such discounts (?)

Last edited by SMG : 3rd June 2005 at 12:42.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:45   #44
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Originally Posted by SMG
Baleno (yes, the highly regarded car over here) , before that 250K discount sold 603 only in 2003-2004, Yes I repeate it sold just 603 in year 2003-2004 and after that price cut ( I call it as a discount though) sold 7785 in 2004-2005! Versa jumped from 1947 to 4376!!
Just imagine the plight of those 603 people who bought the same product for 250K more...
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Old 3rd June 2005, 12:45   #45
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Maruti Zen still lives up to its name. Compare it with a Santro. The zen is faster, pepier, more fuel efficient then the Santro and dead realiable.
Some people may still love it, but it is rather outdated car when compared with Santro. Santro is more spacious, allows good city handling and offers decent ride as well. Haven't heard of Santro's having any reliability issues either. More apt comparison would be Wagon-R and Santro.

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You are talking about the Indica i am sure?? I agree it is Fuel efficient. But what about the refinement and performance. Its even slower then a Zen Peugot or a Esteem peugot. Poor refinement and too noisy.
I have used Indigo and it did not have performace and has poor gear shift. But it offers fantastic ride and space that no Maruti can offer (not taking Swift into account). And it is fuel efficient (same reason why many marutis are selling in market). It is not noisy "inside" the cabin. And it is far safer than Zen and Esteem combined together

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Who ever said that? Reason for hating hyundai is that they aim to lauch quantity cars and not quality.
Really? I think it has better quality than 800, alto. I personally dont like Santro (or accent) at all, but I would not rubbish it as cheap low grade car.

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Well the tata indigo petrol is capable no doubt but what will you do with 100+bhp with such poor handling and poor brakes. In order to reach 100 - 0 you need brakes as well.
If I am not mistaken, I saw your other post which complained about poor brakes on NHC
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