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Old 29th May 2009, 13:47   #256
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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post

So I am not sure if Jazz is really out of race even before it stats to run, I guess it will be a contender to reckon with!

Lets wait and watch

- Harish.
ok man you win its all good - we shall see loads of jazzes on our roads. If only haiyundai and fiat and suzuki had followed these conversions, they could have made much more money and we would still have the same number or who knows more hatches on our roads

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Old 29th May 2009, 14:42   #257
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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
Well, India is not the only country where the price of the basic version of Jazz is priced at around 7 Lakhs. The Jazz 1.2 engine in UK Which is the S variant. The price is 9,990 pounds (from the official Honda website). Just simple math, today's ex-rate is 75.82 Rs to a pound. So the cost works out to be 7,57,441.8 which I guess is around what is talked about in India. There is the concept of Purchasing Power Parity which actually makes this equation more better ( I mean the car more cheaper in India).


Now that you have brought some economics into the question time for me to jump in with my two cents.

1) PPP : or purchasing power parity, if this were the case for pricing of cars in India cars would be a hell lot cheaper than they are. consider simple macburger parity sir, a burger retails for about 2 GBP while the same one in India is about 20 bucks. the PPP using this simple method is 1 GBP = Rs 10!
going by that rate they should sell the Jazz at a Nano beating price of 99,900!!

2)
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Well, there are some features in the car like side curtains etc, which I am not sure is due to Local regulations (sort of a necessary evil ).
necessary evil ?? Since when was your life's protection an evil. feel free to buy the A star with its 3 star rating and cherish its mangled remains should a god forbidden crash reduce it to a heap of metal!


do open up your eyes and realize that the Indian customer is being taken for a massive ride by these so called "premium" badges. This is not a stand against a car in particular. If you like the jazz please go ahead and buy it by all means, its just that I do not think the car is worth my money.
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Old 29th May 2009, 15:01   #258
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Default Had a look at the (jazz)y today! Preview Website is also up NOW!

Just visited the dealer and saw the jazz today in flesh. Had a feel of her or maybe more appropriate would be to say "touch" , as i was not even allowed to start her up(though she was not in the showroom) since the official launch date as stated by the dealer is 10th June and she can ONLY be viewed as of NOW!

She sure feels solidly built, dash looks and feels classy. I don't know if what the dealer said is true or not about the doors opening to almost 80 degrees wide but it did seem like it. Spacious i must say though i im not very sure about sitting at the back especially anyone with "daddy long legs"! I could be wrong but 'i' certainly didnt get the feeling of being comfortable at the back but again its subjective. Boot space is just about ok, and will have to fold the rear seats if you aspire for more. Engine bay is neatly packed(tight)! Looks are again subjective but to me she looks cute and as someone said looks like a mini innova that too when viewed from the side. What i'm sold on is not on the looks front but that of the "build quality" Cant get over it! Sure feels better than even the City. "Pricey"? could be something to watch out for. On my way back saw a Sparkle Blue i20 pull up alongside my car at the traffic signal. Kind of gave me the feeling that the i20 had more road presence(muscle) and aura about her than the jazz.(not saying this because i20 is on my radar). Wonder who will turn out to be the "plain jane" amongst the three, jazz/GP/i20!

The Honda Jazz preview Website is up NOW! Check out the below link.

Honda Jazz :: Home


regards
Smooth Sailing

Last edited by Smooth Sailing : 29th May 2009 at 15:07.
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Old 29th May 2009, 15:16   #259
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Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Because, they make the car here in India. They pay the workers and all their employees as per Indian standards, and then they charge the same amount as they do in UK.

Indirect taxes in India are more, mainly due to double taxations. But the cheap costs compensate for the same.

I agree with you about worker and other costs in India being lower. Also what is more galling is that with the Jazz 1.2 the tax burden on Honda is lowered. Yet this price and these features. It's hard for me to comprehend.

I don't see the reason for such pricing in India but if I were to speculate . . .

These companies target earning a certain amount of profit, and since there are not too many buyers in India for these cars [read anything over 5-6L] they got to squeeze that profit out of those limited number of cars that they sell.
In Honda's case that margin is 20%, if I recall correctly.
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Old 29th May 2009, 15:52   #260
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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
Rent for a 1 BHK in UK (taking my cousin's data who is onsite in UK ) 750 GBP = 58,000 INR. Our BLR guy can get a same or may be ever better house at 10,000 INR. So PPP of 1 INR = 5.8 GBP.
750 GBP, true - but that is if you are living at the city centre. And mostly only the 'onsite' guys get to do that.

And that 1-2BHK house in UK will be a class apart, you can't compare it to Bangalore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
This can not be always true as there are other factors that affect the PPP like for instance if you consider the basic cost of a loaf of bread it b/w .3 to .4 GBP (b/w 25 - 30 INR) which in Bangalore would be b/w 10 - 15 INR. So here the PPP would be 1 INR = 2 to 2.5 GBP.

Similarly fuel prices .998 or 1 GBP per litre of Petrol and in BLR 45 INR again PPP of 2.

It does not end here you can compare the purchasing power in many other angles, like cost of electricity, mobile rentals, airline prices etc.
Agreed UK is expensive.

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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
So based on the various different geo - social - political influences you can avg the PPP to be around 2.5 to 3.

Meaning that the 1 GBP = 2.5 ~ 3 on practical cost of living basis. Comparing this with our ( NO 1) (please see above) Bingo! we have currency conversion factor and PPP to be almost the same 3
True - PPP at a factor of 3. But you are missing a very big point here! We are not talking about luxuary cars here. These cars are very much a part of the common living and form part of the PPP calculation.

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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
So the 9,990 GBP in UK and the 7.5 L in India for the Jazz on either PPP basis or the currency conversion basis are the same
You are just converting currencies, not even applying the PPP! -thats called convenience accounting.

The logic is very simple. Everything there is 3-4 times the price, so should be the cars? And interestingly as you go higher, they tend to get cheaper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
The net take home (either in currency conversion basis or PP basis) is more in BLR than UK as the tax rates in India (~ 35 is 30% lesser then the 50 in UK) thats a HUGE gain. Meaning with our BLR guy at the end of the day has more money to spend (or the net EMI for the Jazz will hurt less post tax) than our UK fellow.
Please check the tax rate in UK!
Income tax rates

I have also done my share of UK.

I was amazed, since I drive a 8 year old WagonR here and my counterparts drove less aged BMWs!

If you think, we are able to afford these cars because our take homes are better, think again! It is because we are used to buying cars which we can barely afford in our incomes. For them buying car is like buying an expensive couch.

The only thing they consider hard to afford is a house. And we aren't even at that stage, we find cars hard to afford

Last edited by SLK : 29th May 2009 at 15:55.
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Old 29th May 2009, 17:43   #261
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Just visited the dealer and saw the jazz today in flesh.
Which dealer did you check out ?
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Old 29th May 2009, 20:27   #262
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I don't understand the logic of blaming Honda for over-pricing their products. If at all, it shd be the indian car buying public that should be blamed, as they seem to be lapping up whatever Honda offers at whatever rates. Now if you are the GM-Mktg of Honda India, and if your research and past experience tells u that Jazz will sell at 8L OTR, will u try to sell it at lower rates?
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Old 30th May 2009, 04:19   #263
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Well if you compare jazz price with the uk also compare crv and other car price.Honda has grown into a greedy company taking indians for a ride.
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Old 30th May 2009, 09:41   #264
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Originally Posted by ahuja365 View Post
Well if you compare jazz price with the uk also compare crv and other car price.Honda has grown into a greedy company taking indians for a ride.
Not that I am supporting Honda but who doesn't want extra buck these days? If I know that my "vada pav" sells at 15 Rs. rather than the 5 Rs one, why should I be bothered? Just quoting a simple example of a "Jumbo King Vada Pav" and the normal Vada pav guy. Its us who have to choose where we want to eat? Isn't it?
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Old 30th May 2009, 09:54   #265
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Which dealer did you check out ?
indivic: Saw the "lady in red" at Sundaram Honda. She was parked in the basement (under the showroom).
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Old 30th May 2009, 10:48   #266
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I was expecting Honda's pricing to be defended and it has been done. I wonder why Hyundai, Skoda and Fiat have not been shown this largesse.

Since we are comparing UK and Indian prices here are a few more examples:

Hyundai i20 1.2L - GBP 9500 OTR = INR 7,20,290

Skoda Fabia 1.2L - GBP 9500 = INR 7,20,290.

Skoda Fabia 1.4L TDi - GBP 11,500 = INR 8,71,930.

Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 MJD 90ps Eleganza = GBP 13,650 = INR 10,34,943.

All variants chosen without any optional features. Conversion rate taken as discussed earlier at 1 GBP = INR 75.82. Exact Indian prices are not known as the Skoda India website doesn't show prices, Hyundai i20's microsite is down and the GP hasn't been launched yet.

Using the UK and Indian pricing logic, I don't see any problem with i20 and Fabia pricing. Why, then, were these cars prices universally condemned and ciritised? Going by this logic, we should happily pay a million bucks for the GP.

Now here is the icing on the cake.

Fiat 500 Lounge 1.3 MJD - GBP 11,100 = INR 8,41,602.

So Fiat imports the 500 as a CBU and sells it at 13 Lakhs while Honda manufactures the Jazz here paying labour in INR, using self admitted 70% local content , uses the excise benefits for small cars and still prices the Jazz at UK price points AND that's still okay with us!

Last edited by amit : 30th May 2009 at 10:52.
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Old 30th May 2009, 11:52   #267
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So Fiat imports the 500 as a CBU and sells it at 13 Lakhs while Honda manufactures the Jazz here paying labour in INR, using self admitted 70% local content , uses the excise benefits for small cars and still prices the Jazz at UK price points AND that's still okay with us!
Isn't it always like that? People who would buy a Jazz will defend its price and criticize others. Same for people who would buy other cars. They criticize Honda pricing.

I remember the Bangled BMW 7 series. It sold more than its previous version and non-buying people continue criticizing it. Ultimately, its the number of people who like something and buy them irrespective of what others think.

Some manufacturers have built up that reputation and others are in pursuit of the same.
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Old 30th May 2009, 12:53   #268
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On the website, the car looks really nice in red color
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Old 30th May 2009, 13:52   #269
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Originally Posted by loving_alaap View Post
On the website, the car looks really nice in red color
It is even more appealing in flesh. Thanks for the tip Smooth Sailing, I also had a look at the Jazz.

Positives

1) Magic seats like they were offered in the NHC in SEA markets make an appearance
2) Rear seats tumble 60:40 and also create a flat loading space
3) Car feels well put together,but some flimsy plastics can be seen here and there
4) Boot is really huge for a hatchback and the low loading lip is only even more convenient
5) Interior is black (dashboard) and grey (seats) theme instead of beige fad, the large glass area did let in light even in the basement but it wont be the brightest cabin
6) Seating height is just about correct, neither too low nor high
7) No transmission tunnel intruding in the rear, typical of the new gen Honda offerings

Negatives

1) Surprising but yes - the magic seat arrangement. It has made the rear seats stiff, you don't sink into them any more like in the Civic or get cushioned like in the Vista, check out the pics on ACI May'09 edition, you can see how thin the rear seats are
2) Pricing expected to be 6.5 - 7 ex. showroom, so definitely higher than i20, but only 2 bags instead of the 6 in i20 Asta(O) at a lower pricing point
3) No parcel shelf, way to go HSCI ! No parcel shelf on a 7-7.5 lakh hatch, no idea if it will be an expensive Honda accessory

3) I felt that the Korean car is more plush than the Jap, now if only the Koreans can plunk in a 1.4l power plant and keep the price increase as minimal as possible...
4) This particular car had MRF tyres, ZVTS I think and 175/65 R14 if I remember correctly, not so sure if that is a good move, at this price 15ers could have been given
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Old 30th May 2009, 14:03   #270
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Indivic, as usual parcel can purchased along with fogs, alloys etc for a this new honda!!!

expect price of 500-1000 rs
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