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Old 13th May 2009, 09:44   #31
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Sid, I applaud you, you did it again.
The Jazz seems to be having most of what i20 gives (except alloys), but more importantly it gives a better engine than the toy given in the i20. All Hyundai has to do is plonk in a more powerful heart, and the i20 should give Honda a tough fight.
I can otherwise foresee Honda wiping the floor with all the rest. In the scrum, the U-Va and Fabia will wither away, the Getz (great little car by the way) will be probably withdrawn, and only Maruti may face up to the Jazz.
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Old 13th May 2009, 09:58   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post

Lets take for eg its nearest competitors, i20.

Engine: i20 Sluggish and boring
Engine: Jazz Frugal and peppiest in its segmet. Even puts likes of Linea to waters
I20 engine: 80 PS @ 5200 RPM, Torque :11.4 KgM/4000 rpm
Jazz Engine: 90 PS @6000 RPM, Torque : 11.2 KgM/4800 rpm

On paper, hyundai kappa feels better. It attains both the peak torque and peak power at a lower RPM than 1.2L VTEC.

So calling the 1.2L VTEC, the peppiest in the segment is unfair.Please do base your arguments on facts alone. The actual verdict will come out once the test drives for Jazz begins.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:15   #33
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Very good info Sid. Looking at the features, I am sure this would be a high end hatch and would be competing with Skoda Fabia. It would be great if you can put out an indicative price.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:18   #34
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Originally Posted by Minardi View Post
@GTO,
Looking at the number of scoops sidindica has come up with, can we reward him by making him a 'Distinguished Member' of T-BHP? I am not aware of technical requirements for this position like min. no. of post, etc....
I second this. The sheer value sid brings to this community is mind boggling. For this itself, he should be the distinguished member.

Let us wait for the pricing. Otherwise, Jazz ticks all the boxes, except the non-availability of diesel.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:22   #35
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
Otherwise, Jazz ticks all the boxes, except the non-availability of diesel.
And the non-availability of alloys (as OE).
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:28   #36
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Originally Posted by Navneet View Post
And the non-availability of alloys (as OE).
Yes. Missed that one.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:32   #37
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^ and electric mirrors, I started realizing how awesome that feature is specially when you park on Mumbai roads
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:33   #38
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Engine: Jazz Frugal and peppiest in its segmet. Even puts likes of Linea to waters
That's interesting. How do you know that the Jazz engine is peppier then Linea when no one on this forum has driven the Jazz till now? We also cribbed and blasted Hyundai for offering a 1.2L engine in a premium hatch but you are hailing Honda for offering a 1.2L engine in their hatch which will be more expensive then i20? Just because it has I-VTEC? Have you noticed that the peak torque comes in at 4800rpm in this technological marvel of a I-Vtec engine?

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GP/Linea suffer from boring petrol and to an extent diesel engine/old
What amazes me is that Fiat's 1.3 MJD FGT in a Maruti Swift is a marvel of technolgy but the same engine in VGT format is old technology in a Fiat Linea!

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have always focused on selling a single platform (Petra/Palio and now Punto/Linea).
What's the problem with single platform? Do you know that the City and Jazz are from the same platform?

As for the Jazz, the specs are boring. There is nothing exciting about the car or the specs. It's a typical Honda product. Lacks features and specs and will be over priced. Honda is taking the Indian market for granted. Tragedy is that they will get away with it again. I would really like to know the reasons for omission of fog lights, alloy's and ACC from their cars. And by reason, I mean a logical reason. Surely their margins are not that squeezed.

Quote:
Quote:
Jazz ticks all the boxes, except the non-availability of diesel.
Quote:
And the non-availability of alloys (as OE).
Quote:
and electric mirrors,
And fog lights.

And ACC.

Last edited by amit : 13th May 2009 at 10:37.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:40   #39
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Features maybe, but specs???

Top that with class leading space/practicality, honda resale, honda snob value, honda maintainence cost ..........would more than warrant the initial high price howsoever much we personally might dislike it.

# I assume you are inferring that all of the above comes inherent in a Honda or have you seen the inside of the car to judge the space/practicality value of the car?

Now features itself dont make a car, else you would have seen the likes of SX4 setting the sales alight in their segment or Chevy Optra taking C+ segment by a ride. Its the combination of brand, car, safety with features being the icing on the cake. Honda has not been providing the icing on its models, but the pudding itself is good.

# Is the Sx4 a failure then? I highly doubt the maruti brand has lost any sheen or lacks any of the factors you mentioned in your first paragraph.
Isn't it time the Indian customer wanted the pudding and the Icing if it is paying for both? Is that too much to ask for?

Lets take for eg its nearest competitors, i20.

Engine: i20 Sluggish and boring
Engine: Jazz Frugal and peppiest in its segmet. Even puts likes of Linea to waters


# Again, you seem to have not only test driven the Jazz but also carried out an analysis of the fuel efficiency. Would kindly request you to please post a detailed review so that prospective customers like myself can benefit from your experience.


An i20 wih airbags (Asta) is 5.6 lakhs ex-showroom. In addition to Jazz,you get a load of features that are nice to have but not a must have, of course one would love alloys, but thats another story.

What i20 lacks though are must haves and cant be bought aftermarket, poor engine for its size, less room for rear seat passengers, poor quality audio. Jazz with aftermarket alloys is quite a match for i20 plus one better having a good engine.

# Please make that Jazz with aftermarket alloys, aftermarket climate control and aftermarket electrically controlled Side view mirrors. Oh My bad, the last two are not possible, right?

So if Hyundai can sell an 80 ps car with engine of i10 for 5.6 lakhs, I am sure Honda can demand 6.5 and get away with it.

Next competitor, Fabia...... considering Skoda A.S.S and the sales figure of this car, along with some aggragarian engine options, do I even need to waste my energies writing a comparison.

# Indeed, why flog a dead horse?

A new car launch isn't time for a pissing contest. We own our vehicles and not the other way around. Rather then getting caught up in a game of oneupmanship that too on an on line forum , why not just discuss the vehicle in a gentlemanly manner, respect others decisions and prior purchases and make up our mind, albeit silently?

my two cents!
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:42   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser_1982 View Post
I20 engine: 80 PS @ 5200 RPM, Torque :11.4 KgM/4000 rpm
Jazz Engine: 90 PS @6000 RPM, Torque : 11.2 KgM/4800 rpm

On paper, hyundai kappa feels better. It attains both the peak torque and peak power at a lower RPM than 1.2L VTEC.

So calling the 1.2L VTEC, the peppiest in the segment is unfair.Please do base your arguments on facts alone. The actual verdict will come out once the test drives for Jazz begins.
I cannot agree more. Assuming a flat torque at the top end (which is never the case) at 5200rpm the Honda will be only 78ps! Thus given the same gearing it is obvious in terms of performance there will be very little to choose. Torque wise the i20 is better any day. I do not think in real life I have ever taken my Accent above 4500 rpm!

However, given the Honda image and their designing a car for the 1200cc / 4m law they must be complemented. The i20 may turn out to be the poor man's Jazz! Fabia must be suffering due to the knocks (deservedly) that Skoda are taking on service etc.

Last edited by sgiitk : 13th May 2009 at 10:43.
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Old 13th May 2009, 10:51   #41
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As for the Jazz, the specs are boring. There is nothing exciting about the car or the specs. It's a typical Honda product. Lacks features and specs and will be over priced. Honda is taking the Indian market for granted. Tragedy is that they will get away with it again. I would really like to know the reasons for omission of fog lights, alloy's and ACC from their cars. And by reason, I mean a logical reason. Surely their margins are not that squeezed.
I absolutely agree - the saving grace could be its huge size. I feel it is more in the Fusion/Marina league and may offer excellent space inside and big boot, and Honda does get away with ridiculous price; because the competition is still not perceived as reliable as Honda's are. Fiat can change this story with GP in next couple of years, but they really need to put in lot of efforts in their *** and fix all those minor cheap plastics issues as well.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:08   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Now features itself dont make a car, else you would have seen the likes of SX4 setting the sales alight in their segment or Chevy Optra taking C+ segment by a ride. Its the combination of brand, car, safety with features being the icing on the cake. Honda has not been providing the icing on its models, but the pudding itself is good.

Next competitor, Fabia...... considering Skoda A.S.S and the sales figure of this car, along with some aggragarian engine options, do I even need to waste my energies writing a comparison.
aseem:
When we buy a car, as you said, we look at many factors not just the engine. But note it down, whether its Linea, i20 or even the forth coming GP, Jazz, nothing could beat the build quality and road handling manners of Fabia (I mean in India ). May be Skoda A.S.S is not up to the mark but I don't have any other complaints with my Great Fabia.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:23   #43
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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
I realize that they are in two different segments, I had made a similar observation about SX4 not having vtech head in India, which is being offered in Jazz. As far as Linea MJD is concerned, its definitely frugal, but a 85 ps engine for a car of its weight, is far from ideal.

ANHC sales do show that Indians do value Honda as a brand. Of course in a country where likes of BMW 3 series sell for close to a 70,000$ the prespective is a bit scewed.
If MJD had a larger engine it would have definately made an exceptional car, but trust me, the current one is quite adequate, unless you want a rush everytime you hit the gas, in that case neither the linea nor ANHC or the jazz will be useful, there is a difference in engine performance for sure but not as much as discussed in various "Test Drives" around, again like you mentioned its my personal view and opinion, respect your views about Honda.


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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
another thread turning into a fiat vs honda platform. LOL!! atleast honda fanboys accept that FIAT is in competition. I think thats a worthy praise from "mighty Honda" fans.
No intention of that dude, would rather stick to the JAZZ topic which interests me more. But having driven a Linea MJD for couple of months and I thought will put in my views on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvldvr View Post
Well honda is coming up with an under 5 lacs hatch soon. Todays newspaper state that the entire R&D, sourcing of spare parts etc will be based in India to bring down the costs. This vehicle is specially aimed at the Indian Mass volume market, unlike the city jazz etc. Seems like a great initiative from honda. To get honda quality at under 5 lacs would not be bad idea at all.
I saw one of the auto shows forgot which one, which mentioend that Jazz was to be priced around 4-5 lacs, which will make it an excellent value, considering Honda's reliability, I am itching to get one soon, but in the hindsight I feel should wait for the Punto to come out and compare both !
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:25   #44
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Sid bhai! Tussi Great Ho! You did it again!
Guess the specs are pretty much in line with expectations. And since Honda doesn't intend to sell this like hot cakes, they can get away with less features and high price!
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:25   #45
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Nice scoop Sid !!

To me, not having fog lamps, alloys and electrical side view mirrors make the vehicle feel like 'not-so-premium' hatchback.
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