Whom do you hate the most. Please read before voting.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by rks

I
I believe that the old Santro has a more aerodynamic shape than the Xing when it comes to 140+ speeds, but I am not sure about this. Anyway, I see that you are a 2004 Alto Lx owner. How do you think your car compares to the old Santro, which you dismiss with such contempt? In the city, Santro is obviously a better car. On the highway, the 800 cc Alto will get clobbered, there is no comparison. At least that is my impression, based on my experience. To be frank, I would not exchange my 2000 Santro for your 2004 Alto, regardless of resale values and market perceptions.

dude you are comparing two wrong cars. u cannot compare santro with alto. in the city as well as on the highway the alto will always be slower than the santro. i have driven both cars for a long while. alto is always a confident stable car at sharp turns than santro. turn a santro at speeds of 70-80 and turn an alto, u will feel the difference.

well and when the cost factor peeps in, there are lots of factors that alto proves to be VFM.

and well if u compare zen, alto 1.1 litre with santro i bet they will beat santro anytime.

[rider60]

i am totally surprised to find Hyundai getting the highest votes,

i would vote against the following tata, GM, HM, Fiat, Maruthi, ford, Skoda, toyota, honda and M&M.

well first its the tatas, because they have not till date taken care of the engine over heating issue in their R&D on the regular and TDI diesel engines, which is responsible for blowing the gaskets, which is a shame. and tons more mentioned before. The seating position in the indica is too upright and one cant relax at all, even a 800 has a more comfortable seating position.

GM for not trying to understanding the way Indian customers prefer their cars to be and wrong approach packages that hit big time on brand and resale of their cars, They literally screwed the SRV, and no diesel mid segment sedan?

HM for screwing up Mitsubishi cars and seriously they want a customer to buy a revamped amby but not a CONTESSA?

Fiat, i think most of us have the same problem with them.

Maruthi made my all time favourite 800 and zen, which they managed to screw royally and they are the most KANJOOS, of the lot, man 165/80-R14 even on a diesel swift thats heights and the LXI LDI models of swift and SX4 are an outright loot under our noses, JUST cant tell you how much i hate them for their kanjoosi with the swift and SX4(FIT AND FINISH).


Ford cars are good till first 40000kms and then you start paying huge amounts for spares and service, thats really pathetic, even to day the bumper of a escort costs close to 20grand man thats pathetic, and the cream on the butter is one needs to run around or wait months to get the spares.

all the comments given to hyundai in the previous pages also belong to this manufacturer, SKODA, they are taxis abroad, and OCTAVIA is long discontinued internationally and we still pay up ROYAL amounts for this and the LAURA thats suppose to be the replacement, but it is pushed into the next segment in India and they sell it at say 3-4lacs more? ridiculous? i say so.

toyota for repeatedly failing at the corolla man thats too much already.

honda people love this brand too much man 10lacs for the top model city isnt it too much? we get SX4 and others for much lesser prices.

M&M i seriously expect them to launch a 4x4 as a replacement to the classic and they have failed to fill in that gap.

i have not voted for any since all manufacturers have their share of flaws and i hate them equally for the specific reasons i mentioned.

[santosh911]

Tata has got to be the most hated. Is there any satisfied customer out there? for 20 years Tata has taken Indian consumers for a ride. The media too have kowtowed to Tata and not brought to lightthe plight of thousands of Tata vehicle owners

[rider60]

well, i think we bhpians here very well remember the Ford's case where metro ford did not respond well when one of their service personnel crashed a car sent for service.

then there is this case of lemon SUMO whose case is still being fought right?

but there was this case of sonata where this was similarly banged by the service personnel but not damaged as heavily as to twist the chassis like in the ford's case and yet a brand new car was replaced right?

now i dont remember the threads mods and other please help me find these threads and paste them here.

this shows after all the wrong hype, unethical selling strategies and ugly looking cars Hyundai, still responds very well to customer's troubles and makes sure they are happy with their cars.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Not able to make up my mind against a manufacturer, although i think FIAT deserves the vote here for their pathetic attitude towards customers.

Hyundai is way ahead of the pack? Thats surprising! Knew they would be up in the top 3, but the most hated brand?

TATA comes second. But, all their current products are rather outdated, and we should be able to judge them better after the launch of new Indica and Nano.

FIAT is in third. Hmmm, a common man's poll might have put them in first or second. But then, team-bhp is an enthusiat's community.

[vijit.gangwar]

Fail to understand the significance of this poll...

[rks]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

alto is always a confident stable car at sharp turns than santro. turn a santro at speeds of 70-80 and turn an alto, u will feel the difference.

I have not driven an Alto, but my Santro routinely takes corners at 80+ speeds. If you compare stock Alto with stock Santro, you see that Alto has skinnier tyres/wheels and a softer suspension, and Santro's power steering is superior. These factors will work against high-speed handling of Alto when compared to Santro. Regarding Santro, it depends on how the car is maintained. Alignment/balancing should be done and tyre pressures should be accurately set. You can take the stock Santro to 120+ speeds even in wet conditions and confidently cut lanes or take corners, at least when there aren't exceptionally strong cross-winds (as in just prior to a thundershower). The stock Alto has no chance.

well and when the cost factor peeps in, there are lots of factors that alto proves to be VFM.

Here is where the 800 cc Alto is a winner.

and well if u compare zen, alto 1.1 litre with santro i bet they will beat santro anytime.

Ahh.. now we are talkiing about a real contest. In a drag race, the Alto 1.1 is probably quickest and there would not be much to choose between a Xing and a Zen (Xing will have to be gunned in 4th gear to 150+ speeds). But in real-world driving conditions, the factors I mentioned previously will come into play, and will work in favour of Santro. The Santro's superior torque and superior maneuverability will make it one tough car to beat and in the end, it may come down to luck and driver skills. I will put my money on the Santro any day.

Now let us consider my old Santro. On paper, it should fall short of the above cars, because it has a 1-lit engine with 55 BHP power (the Zen's 1-lit engine delivers 60 BHP). But mine is a "modded" old Santro. It is a Speed 97 addict, and has alloy wheels with low offset (which gives the car a wider track). Plus I use stock-size 155/70 tubeless tyres with pressures jacked up to ~35 psi, on the 5J alloys (as opposed to 4J stock rims). My car can take corners at much higher speeds than the stock Xing, and I believe that Speed 97 has added 3-4 BHP to my car (high-octane fuel can add even 12 BHP for more powerful cars). The pickup is also much better with Speed 97 and the engine is really smooth, despite 75000 kms on the odo. The 80 kmph cornering speed that you talk about is routine stuff for my car. I generally overtake Xings and Zens, but to be honest, I haven't found many drivers interested in playing at ~140 kmph speeds even amongst sedans, SUVs and the more powerful hatches like Swifts. Especially now that the rains have started.

@aaggoswami: You are entitled to your opinion, and I am not in the least offended by it. But really I think you have some wrong impressions of the Santro. The 900 cc Matiz or the 800 cc Alto cannot compare with a Santro (old or new). As for Wagon R, if shod with the Vxi model's 155/65 tyres it can play in Santro's territory. The Wagon R wins in city for ride comfort and fuel economy, but the Santro will win on the highway because of its stiffer suspension (read: better cornering) and superior torque. As for old Zen or Alto 1.1, please read what I have written above.

[AMATMO]

does nobody feel mitsubishi is neglecting indian market?

[amit_mechengg]

I have not driven an Alto, but my Santro routinely takes corners at 80+ speeds. If you compare stock Alto with stock Santro, you see that Alto has skinnier tyres/wheels and a softer suspension, and Santro's power steering is superior. These factors will work against high-speed handling of Alto when compared to Santro. Regarding Santro, it depends on how the car is maintained. Alignment/balancing should be done and tyre pressures should be accurately set. You can take the stock Santro to 120+ speeds even in wet conditions and confidently cut lanes or take corners, at least when there aren't exceptionally strong cross-winds (as in just prior to a thundershower). The stock Alto has no chance.

despite of all these factors on stock alto and santro ( i have used both stock) i found alto more confident and stable and i think is all because of altos better centre of gravity as it is more flat and less tall. santro also suffers cross winds more than alto. if you put the same santro tyres on alto then its even better.

Now let us consider my old Santro. On paper, it should fall short of the above cars, because it has a 1-lit engine with 55 BHP power (the Zen's 1-lit engine delivers 60 BHP). But mine is a "modded" old Santro. It is a Speed 97 addict, and has alloy wheels with low offset (which gives the car a wider track). Plus I use stock-size 155/70 tubeless tyres with pressures jacked up to ~35 psi, on the 5J alloys (as opposed to 4J stock rims). My car can take corners at much higher speeds than the stock Xing, and I believe that Speed 97 has added 3-4 BHP to my car (high-octane fuel can add even 12 BHP for more powerful cars). The pickup is also much better with Speed 97 and the engine is really smooth, despite 75000 kms on the odo. The 80 kmph cornering speed that you talk about is routine stuff for my car. I generally overtake Xings and Zens, but to be honest, I haven't found many drivers interested in playing at ~140 kmph speeds even amongst sedans, SUVs and the more powerful hatches like Swifts. Especially now that the rains have started.

well yours seem to be a good modded santro, yes modded vehicles always call for different performances and we cannot compare them.

and yes if u compare the prices of Alto/Wagon R/ Zen and the after sales service, reliability with that of santros it makes a different story altogether.

[drkunaldas]

Originally Posted by Glass

I agree and believe the Santro is a neat car. I have a 99 DX and I like its looks better than the newer Santro. It is reliable and has no problems or rattles. The engine is great even today and the a/c is perfect.
It does not promise any more than that and delivers what it promises. It really pains to part with it, now that I wish to upgrade.

i have a santro 99 euro-2. it is reliable, efficicent, pleasure to drive. Engine is good and it is touching 97000kms (waiting for 100K). hyundai may be coping, but they copy well. kahte he na, nakal ke liye bhi to akal chaiye (in hindi, translated in english - even copying needs intelligence)

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by rks

Looks are subjective. Somehow I just love the looks of my old Santro. I would be lost if I looked out the window and didn't get to see my old reliable friend. And I would prefer this car anyday to your Palio 1.2, for various substantial reasons (including highway performance), as opposed to appearances.
.

I can understand your feelings here rks, it is the same with many consumers here. Once you've bought a particular model, that's the best, and you fall in love with that. In all other cars you tend to find problems and glitches compared to yours. Well, I am not that kind of person.

I liked Palio years before I could buy it. I liked some other modesl too, and still I like all of them.

What did you say about highway performance? I agree that Santro is peppier than a 1.2, but on a highway, Santro isn't the car to have. I have driven both on long road trips and Palio is a far better highway car. Ever driven the Santro above 100+Kmph on smooth but slightly intense curves on a highway? (Try the curves in GQ - NH7 from Hosur towards K.Giri and you'll know why.) Only thing that justifies comparison of a Santro and a Palio 1.2 is the underpowered engine in the 1.2. Comparing Santro with a 1.6 would be a crime.

And of course, the term 'ugly duckling' is not mine. That was the name given internationally by auto critics to your beloved Santro/Atos model. No offense meant here.

[agspins]

Mercedes for not pricing s class under 5 lacs...

whats the point in hating a any manufacturer...would that be of any good to anybody...

[junkishya]

I still remember the AutoIndia magazine cover page which showed step-by-step photos of a Santro toppling at 60kmph on a sharp turn. That was immediately after the first Santro came into market. One of the fierce competitor was Matiz. Hyundai was quick to publish similar photos of Matiz toppling at 60kmph !!

There is a fundamental difference between people buying Santro and people buying Palio.
A person buying Palio knows the the issues in the product but still goes and buys it becoz it's "Heart over Head". He is ready to take risks and safety is a primary consideration.
A person buying a Santro wants an Issue-less, Milege-waala car. Safety takes a back-seat this case. Most of the people whom I know have chosen Santro for the mentioned reasons. Safety was always a secondary consideration for them.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by junkishya

He is ready to take risks and safety is a primary consideration.

Yes, and FIAT has done well to offer all modern safety features in the car! Santro meets the safety requirements of European markets which AFAIK the Palio does not!

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Yes, and FIAT has done well to offer all modern safety features in the car! Santro meets the safety requirements of European markets which AFAIK the Palio does not!

Palio is made as the result of a world car project (A178) and it was not meant for rich Europian countries in the first place. Hence it is difficult to find any europe specific safety ratings for Palio. Anyhow, if you really want to know which is safer, bang both of them headon at 40 Kmph to a hard target. You'll know!

I once took a Santro for a road trip. (From Blr to Kollam) and I ended up having 3 bent wheels on it, which I know will not happen for a Palio's wheel that easily. And we're talking about saftey here, for a car that can't even take the usual potholes in our highways.

I would request you to take a look at a poll in team-bhp, to know the opinion of our fellow bhpians on the safest hatch. A mere 1.22% think that Santro is safest opposed to around 50% for Palio. That explains it right?