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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:05   #31
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Default Re: Tata Motors To Build Electric Car Worth Rs.10L!

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I beg to differ here. Hybrids are popular in US more than "pure" electric cars like Reva. Charging points are far and few in US & Europe. Only a couple of recognized supermarkets have it. Others Malls dont. The only practical use that i see is Home-Supermarket-Home runs and that too outside India. I do not see that it will be a hit in india.
Yes there are more hybrids than electric cars. However you'd be surprised to see the number of Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts now. I'm in the bay area and every third or fourth car here is either a Leaf or a Volt.

There are very valid reasons for buying either over here - the government gives you tax breaks of upto 10000$ if you purchase a fully electric car. Plus you get to use the carpool lane which is a seriously huge daily benefit. I travel daily from San Jose to Redwood City. For a commute like that, an all electric car can end up cutting down your commuting time from an hour to under 30 minutes.

Also unlike the junk that reva is, the leaf is safe, quick, comfortable and actually feels like a real car. Only issue is the price which at 38k is quite steep. However seemingly Nissan is gonna start assembling it here soon which should drop the price under 30k.

I seriously wish the Indian government is as serious as the government here about reducing the number of polluting vehicles on the road. Unfortunately they don't seem to care!

Last edited by reignofchaos : 23rd June 2012 at 02:07.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 02:24   #32
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

I was referring your claim of 'electric cars have failed in EU & US'. It's true that hybrids are more popular, which is mainly Prius, and that came to the market as a proper car some 8 or 10 years ago. Pure electric, non-hybrid cars just starting to arrive here - look up Nissan Leaf, which has been picking up momentum last two years.

Since Leaf has been a moderate success, all manufacturers are upping their game. Renault Fluence ZE is about to be released, also a smaller new car called Renualt Zoe is about to be released. Ford is bringing out EV version of Focus, there is talk of ev version of Mini from BMW, and various others are also jumping in. There are more and more charging outlets being placed here in Ireland at least, and there's a huge push from government and other pro-EV agencies here since 2010.

In short, the game is just starting and it's still too early to say electric cars have 'failed'.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:14   #33
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Default Re: Tata Motors To Build Electric Car Worth Rs.10L!

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Yes there are more hybrids than electric cars. However you'd be surprised to see the number of Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts now. I'm in the bay area and every third or fourth car here is either a Leaf or a Volt.

There are very valid reasons for buying either over here - the government gives you tax breaks of upto 10000$ if you purchase a fully electric car. Plus you get to use the carpool lane which is a seriously huge daily benefit. I travel daily from San Jose to Redwood City. For a commute like that, an all electric car can end up cutting down your commuting time from an hour to under 30 minutes.
I would love the Hybrids compared to the electric ones. Electric ones are good for people communiting to work on a fixed range of miles, instead hybrids have both options. Also the Prius is the major hit and driving it is like a video game with all electronic displays around. I ride the Honda Civic Hybrid which is also good for the price. Though not a pimpy ride like the full-time gas cars, using such cars make us little socially accountable.

Another doubt I had - sorry for off the topic! What is a "Natural Gas Vehicle- NGV"? Honda has NGVs as well and I see most USPS vans tagged as NGVs.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:29   #34
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Default Re: Tata Motors To Build Electric Car Worth Rs.10L!

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I would love the Hybrids compared to the electric ones. Electric ones are good for people communiting to work on a fixed range of miles, instead hybrids have both options. Also the Prius is the major hit and driving it is like a video game with all electronic displays around. I ride the Honda Civic Hybrid which is also good for the price. Though not a pimpy ride like the full-time gas cars, using such cars make us little socially accountable.

Another doubt I had - sorry for off the topic! What is a "Natural Gas Vehicle- NGV"? Honda has NGVs as well and I see most USPS vans tagged as NGVs.
IMHO Prius has absolutely no value. Its mileage is no better than an efficient diesel and its horrible to drive. Atleast the fully electric cars are truly clean to the consumer. Granted that there's a lot of pollution generated when building the batteries but once the car is built, it causes no pollution. Also the newer gen electrics can do as much as 120 miles on a single charge. Yes you can't take it outside your city, however that is plenty enough range for commuting.

An NGV is basically what CNG cars are in India. Only difference being that most of them here also have an auxillary battery and are hybrids and that these are built purely for natural gas use and are not designed for petrol.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:33   #35
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

One way to analyze the market is by the numbers of cars being sold...assuming the US would be a good benchmark, the penetration of the Hybrid vehicles is around 1.2 % of all other vehicles ( Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: Vehicles , Hybrid electric vehicles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

The interesting thing to note is the YoY growth of the Alternative Fuel Vehicles has been hugley positive and May 2012 clocked a growth of 26% ( Month on Month, ref to May 2012 Dashboard | Hybrid Cars).

Its too early to state that the electric / alternate fuel cars have failed...just another tid bit , there is tesla in our parking lot and its a joy to behold.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 06:54   #36
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
IMHO Prius has absolutely no value. Its mileage is no better than an efficient diesel and its horrible to drive. Atleast the fully electric cars are truly clean to the consumer. Granted that there's a lot of pollution generated when building the batteries but once the car is built, it causes no pollution. Also the newer gen electrics can do as much as 120 miles on a single charge. Yes you can't take it outside your city, however that is plenty enough range for commuting.
.
I have driven prius and I think the car is no worse than any other car, in my opinion. The mileage I got was about 39mpg, which translates to about 16.4 kmpl, so agree with you on the diesel part. In fact, I think diesel cars are better and robust.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 13:52   #37
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

The big big reason for failure of an electric vehicle is 'Range'. The current battery technology doesn't provide for any range greater than 100km on a single charge. The second biggest drawback is recharge time. An EV takes anywhere between 6-12 hrs to to a full recharge and 3-4 hrs for a top up/quick recharge.

Unless these two issues are solved and the EVs develop quick recharge times (15 mins or less) and range of 4-500km per charge the EV technology is never going mainstream.
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Old 25th June 2012, 14:12   #38
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
I seriously wish the Indian government is as serious as the government here about reducing the number of polluting vehicles on the road. Unfortunately they don't seem to care!
I hope so too. However, I dont see how they can even start to think of implementing separate lanes for electric cars when they dont even have enough space for a dedicated bus lane in most cities.
They could have started by at least promoting electric scooterettes by providing enough recharge outlets at central places/ petrol pumps or say a cash discount or payback for users. This could have taken some commute level motorbikes and even a few cars off the road.

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Since Leaf has been a moderate success, all manufacturers are upping their game..
In short, the game is just starting and it's still too early to say electric cars have 'failed'.
Oh, so what would happen to traffic in the dedicated lanes if the electric car sales pick up? That wont anymore be a reason to buy one then!
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Old 25th June 2012, 15:23   #39
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Default Re: Electric car to hit roads in Sept 2009: Ratan Tata

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
There are very valid reasons for buying either over here - the government gives you tax breaks of upto 10000$ if you purchase a fully electric car. Plus you get to use the carpool lane which is a seriously huge daily benefit

I seriously wish the Indian government is as serious as the government here about reducing the number of polluting vehicles on the road. Unfortunately they don't seem to care!
Yes the Govt will be serious about one thing - How to tax Electric cars as they would neither buy diesel or buy Petrol. The govt should give sales / service tax rebates to Prius owners at the bery least, since its one of the greenest vehicles one can own in india.

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
The big big reason for failure of an electric vehicle is 'Range'. The current battery technology doesn't provide for any range greater than 100km on a single charge. The second biggest drawback is recharge time. An EV takes anywhere between 6-12 hrs to to a full recharge and 3-4 hrs for a top up/quick recharge.

Unless these two issues are solved and the EVs develop quick recharge times (15 mins or less) and range of 4-500km per charge the EV technology is never going mainstream.
Right - I agree - I will buy an EV if i get at least 200 kms with single charge or at least real-time 100 kms/charge in peak hour chennai traffic with AC & Music system. 8 hrs idle time to too high at least for the average joe. I can spend 2 hours at the max for charging my car.
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