May 2009 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by GTO

MUV’s + SUV’s:

- Mahindra is king of the UV hill with a total of 8,033 utes sold. However, the Xylo’s celebration season is clearly over.

thanks a lot GTO. can we have a break up of the sales figures of the scorpio, xylo & bolero please?

and why is the xylo's celebration over? can you please specify?

Originally Posted by hemanthisgreat

I sincerely doubt that. If a mere 1000 or 2000 were canceled, it still leaves 15000 who bought it. It still is a huge number and they would have certainly said 15000 sold.

Anyhow, we should be able to get sales analysis for the xylo. Waiting to see that.

xylo is selling in huge numbers. i remember in april, it overtook the innova by a huge margin. i see a lot more xylos on mumbai roads than the new facelifted innovas.
good that people have accepted the xylo inspite of its ugly duckling looks.



@ autocarr: hey buddy, do you own the linea? your proflie says you own a 800.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by shrinivasap

a) I haven't seen any one in my life so far buying a car without doing research. When i say research, it doesn't mean only internet. You can ask your friends, watch reviews on TV, Read news papers, magazines etc etc. I took almost more than 6 months to decide and i am sure majority belongs to my category...after all, spending 9 to 10 lacs is huge...

Niggling Issues: Have you seen anywhere folks discussing ANHC Niggling Issues? Yes, it is not perfect, but it is the best option in that price range.

In India, generally research while purchasing the car ends up in asking friends, relatives, colleagues, acquaintances, garages etc. Its more of opnions than the research. And we all know how is the perception of market to Honda forming those opinions.

I took 2 months to decide & discarded ANHC. Simply too Plain.

If someone says that after all who wants Alloy Wheels, Automatic Climate Control, Rear AC Vents, CD System & USB port together, Bluetooth connectivity, Rear Sun Blind wtc, he is lying hoping deep down in desire that Honda gives them in ANHC at the same price. All these luxuries against Plastics (and ANHC has poor plastics as preported by many on this forum) is way too high & can't be compensated.

Originally Posted by shrinivasap

I am a proud owner of ANHC and i love it beacuse i don't have any issues. They day i face any issues, i will be the first person to report here.

You seem to sound like only your ANHC does not have any issues.
As mentioned Plastics can not be compared to abscense of all the equipments/ features Honda is depriving of Indian consumers.
Yes, the reason ould be Reliability of ANHC. thats true. And Honda seems to be ripping Indian consumers on it & the perception. Honda deserves it too as its not easier to build Reliability perception. But then there are lacs of car-owners using other cars for 5-6 years without any issues. e.g. My Ford Ikon ran impeccably for 6 years. Against it, that Civic-owners new Civic is repeatedly stalling (no such issue has yet come on Linea). One intends to use a car for 4-5 years in which generally most cars do not break down or give issues. Yes, for ANHC, the probability of giving issue could be lesser than other cars due to history. But than its a "probability" whereas the other car giving me all the quipments/ luxuries/ features is not a probability, its a certainty. Why not to enjoy all these luxuries than to depend on a "Probability"?

Originally Posted by crazyro

Hi autocarcr,

We have bought ANHC. I agree it is slightly overpriced. But the driving pleasure and peace of mind it gives is priceless !!!!!

I think you are only interested in features that we use once in a blue moon and isnt really interested in the most important aspects of a car.

No one talks about the cheap engines (hatchback engines) offered by Fiat in the Linea.

ANHC rocks !!!!

You are way too off, dude.
That same humble engine drives almost 15-20% of Indian cars with satisfied buyers. Way too high as compared to Honda. To that humble engine, add those luxuries/ equipments - Alloy wheels, Auto Climate Control, Fog Lamps, CD System & USB both, Rear AC Vents, Rear Sun Blind, which Honda never gives it in ANHC but gives some of them in Civic/ Accord.
Doesn't the comparison is unfair on ANHC? Shouldn't Linea have been compared with Civic?

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Honda and Toyota may be waiting and watching for Linea/Fiat to repeat its usual mistakes. If Fiat does not make a mess of it and keeps on bringing home segment leading volumes, then perhaps Toyonda may in 3-4 months bring down prices. Positive news for car makers is that commodity and plastic prices are not going to go up substantially in 2009, and could keep on declining or remain stable.

Very pertinent point. That might even force Honda to either give more equipments or rationalise the price. Thats why people love to see Fiat to do well this time

Originally Posted by akj53

As compared to Altis, Civic looses on the following counts (to name a few only) :-

Lack of goodies
Poor low speed torque
Less FE
Less seating comfort
Less ingress and egress comfort
Less boot space
I test drove City Automatic which is supposed to have a better gear box than Civic, but frankly that was not as smooth as that of Altis.
Less suitable as a family car
Less convenience and comfort factor
Arrogant and snobbish dealers.
Less Mileage warranty (40000 vs 1 lac of Altis)

I now wonder why no Honda-owner comes back to the above post saying who wants goodies, who cares for low speed torque, FE, seating comfort, ingress and egress comfort, boot space, convenience & comfort.

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

In India, generally research while purchasing the car ends up in asking friends, relatives, colleagues, acquaintances, garages etc. Its more of opnions than the research. And we all know how is the perception of market to Honda forming those opinions.

I took 2 months to decide & discarded ANHC. Simply too Plain.

If someone says that after all who wants Alloy Wheels, Automatic Climate Control, Rear AC Vents, CD System & USB port together, Bluetooth connectivity, Rear Sun Blind wtc, he is lying hoping deep down in desire that Honda gives them in ANHC at the same price. All these luxuries against Plastics (and ANHC has poor plastics as preported by many on this forum) is way too high & can't be compensated.


You seem to sound like only your ANHC does not have any issues.
As mentioned Plastics can not be compared to abscense of all the equipments/ features Honda is depriving of Indian consumers.
Yes, the reason ould be Reliability of ANHC. thats true. And Honda seems to be ripping Indian consumers on it & the perception. Honda deserves it too as its not easier to build Reliability perception. But then there are lacs of car-owners using other cars for 5-6 years without any issues. e.g. My Ford Ikon ran impeccably for 6 years. Against it, that Civic-owners new Civic is repeatedly stalling (no such issue has yet come on Linea). One intends to use a car for 4-5 years in which generally most cars do not break down or give issues. Yes, for ANHC, the probability of giving issue could be lesser than other cars due to history. But than its a "probability" whereas the other car giving me all the quipments/ luxuries/ features is not a probability, its a certainty. Why not to enjoy all these luxuries than to depend on a "Probability"?

Well said, Vahanpujari. I agree with your analysis, and it is correct that most research in India is limited to what friends and relatives recommend---in most cases it would end up with a Maruti or Honda.
Even when I'd narrowed down on the Fiesta 2 years ago, my BIL was recommending the Esteem, Baleno or the NHC. He did not even know that those models were getting phased out.He was also unaware of the GC issues of all Hondas in India (except the CRV), and how Honda was ripping of Indians with no features of ABS , airbags, etc, while still charging a premium.

He even said--'do you recall the number of Ikons one sees stalled on the roads'? I said 'I aint seen any, but I've certainly seen many Indicas'. I also told him that there were at least 20 Fords in my area that were 2 to 7 years old, and have never seen any of them stalled on the road.

It was only after he shifted to Hyd and saw scores of Fiestas on the road that he acknowledged my choice, moreso after driving the car.

[raj_5004]

coming to the debate, i would anyday prefer a linea over the ANHC. Hondas & Toyotas are literally robbing indians of their hard earned money by pricing their low specced car so high, especially when there are better options in the market. why? because they know that indians are very BRAND conscious. they will prefer only a car with a good brand name, even though it means depriving themselves of some creature comforts or necessities that others offer at a LOWER price.

i like the linea because:
1) it is priced very competitevely, unlike the ANHC.
2) it has great features which i dont want to miss in the ANHC, and later crib about!
3) forget the features that the linea offers, the ANHC is just plain & boring. not even alloys & fog lamps at this price!!!
4) linea looks good from all angles whereas the ANHC looks good only from the front.
5) lastly, i hate the pathetic build of the japs, i would anyday feel safer in the solid linea.

And who says, hondas are very reliable? have a look at this:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-not-care.html (Problems With My Civic And Honda Does Not Care)

and unlike what people talk about here, the majority of T-BHPians too prefer the linea over the ANHC & have voted for it as the best car in this segment. here-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...an-around.html (Which is the best C+ segment sedan around?)

[ImmortalZ]

I always complain about the indifferent dealers. The rest, well:

Lack of goodies - Xenons? I want projectors. I don't know anything else worthwhile. Does the Altis have rear A/C vents? If so, that is one thing I'd want.
Poor low speed torque - I have an A/T. It has tremendous low speed torque.
Less FE - Who cares? I would've bought a diesel if I wanted FE. One KMPL doesn't matter to me (or to anyone who is going to be spending 14L on a sedan).
Less seating comfort - My dad found the Civic back seats better than the Altis, when we tested it. The front seats with their side bolsters, awesome to be in, throwing it into corners. However, lumbar support not adjustable (perfect for me though) and the angle adjust without a ratchet is annoying.
Less ingress and egress comfort - Ergh, low slung sedans. They are both on the uncomfortable side. I agree with this.
Less boot space - Family travels light. I travel with near to no luggage at all. Swallows my dad's two humongous suitcases without a problem when he returns after 9 months of sailing. Pass!
I test drove City Automatic which is supposed to have a better gear box than Civic, but frankly that was not as smooth as that of Altis. - I found the four speed A/T positively horrendous. Civic A/T in sport mode is heaven and I don't even use the paddles.
Less suitable as a family car - Oh really?
Less convenience and comfort factor - Suspension is soft, without the ride quality from such a suspension. But delightful to drive.
Arrogant and snobbish dealers. - Agreed.
Less Mileage warranty (40000 vs 1 lac of Altis) - Both of them will go beyond 1 lac miles without a shadow of a doubt if maintained properly. For my usage, four years will hit 40k, if a bit less.

To be honest, none of this matters for me. I bought it to use for a few years, then I'll be swapping the engine, changing the suspension and making it a road rocket. The Altis never had a chance to be my car in the first place.

However, if I wanted a family sedan today, I'll still get the Civic. The Altis never did it for me. It didn't have anything to make me want it. The Xenons weren't better than the Civic's normal halogens. Cruise control? In our country? It will work for two seconds until someone jumps the divider, or cuts across your lane, or brakes to save cattle. Electric seat adjust? How many times will you use it? Once. To set it to your position. The engine doesn't hold a candle to the revv happy Honda and doesn't sound as well when you're thrashing it. It sounds painful. And as a beholder whose eye is surveying the Altis, it is catastrophically ugly - like a telescopic eyed goldfish.

I never found what I was looking for in the Altis. The Civic doesn't have all of it either. But it has some. That makes it my choice. Maybe twenty years down the line when I'm broke and if I'm going to buy a car with all my savings, I'll buy the Altis so I'll get one more kilometer per liter and more toys I'll use once. But until then...

[Technocrat]

Guys we have had enough of Honda Vs Fiat on the Forum. Any More Flaming Post on this will be deleted.

[automobilophile]

Originally Posted by vid6639

Due to increasing dollar prices/Japanese Yen, honda increased the CR-V price by 3.55Lakhs thereby killing it. The accord went up by 1L and Civic by 60K. This increase has affected sales badly.

Will this affect for both imported and locally manufactured cars? What about city? Is it also affected? Does honda manufacture any of the cars here, or just assembles them?

[indiandevil]

Originally Posted by automobilophile

Will this affect for both imported and locally manufactured cars? What about city? Is it also affected? Does honda manufacture any of the cars here, or just assembles them?

These price increases reflect the amount of imported components Honda uses in its various models. The CR-V being the highest, thus the 3 1/2 lac increase. The Civic and Accord use more localised products, so therefore not the drastic increase compared to that of the CR-V. The Honda City is manufactured from 99% of local components and products, so I dont think it's price will be affected that much. Honda manufactures the City and Jazz completely in India, as for the Civic, there are some components sourced from Japan and Thailand, and the Accord and CR-V have few components imported from Japan (a higher amount on the CR-V).

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by GTO;1338717-

RIP Mahindra-Renault! A measly 427 cars sold in the Logan’s worst performance yet. Most of those have got to be commercial sales (taxis et al). An outdated cut-price product at a premium price (over the Indigo)? I don’t think so. Renault must be fuming.

To make things worse - I note the big fleets are not buying more Logan's, they seem to opt for Indigo Marina's and FOrd Ikon TDCi - ther latter is a price killer

[manij]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

thanks a lot GTO.....and why is the xylo's celebration over? can you please specify?....

I am also eager to understand why xylo's celebration is over. The recent television ads indicate 17000 xylos booked. considering production of 3000-3500 vehicles per month (starting from mid-January), wonder if the supply is now more than demand.

[devarshi84]

I guess Logan will be officially out of the market in the coming 6 months.

[tanwaramit]

Originally Posted by manij

I am also eager to understand why xylo's celebration is over. The recent television ads indicate 17000 xylos booked. considering production of 3000-3500 vehicles per month (starting from mid-January), wonder if the supply is now more than demand.

Because, Booking is different than actual sales. ads are saying only about booked, why not Sold ?

[manij]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

I guess Logan will be officially out of the market in the coming 6 months.

I am suprised why their marketing folks are not acting. Not able to see much action over the last 6 months and I presume are still selling '08 stock. Probably another example of what happens when the power centers are far removed from the action and eventually when they get around to paying attention, would have lost whatever traction they had.

[royalcruiser]

and in today's reports -

First in 8 years: Tata Motors may report net loss for FY-09
First in 8 years: Tata Motors may report net loss for FY-09- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

the report talks of mainly the JLR deal and Tata's bleeding due to it .. actual numbers in India are also not much to write about, is it?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

In India, generally research while purchasing the car ends up in asking friends, relatives, colleagues, acquaintances, garages etc. Its more of opnions than the research. And we all know how is the perception of market to Honda forming those opinions.

Reputation & word on the street are built after years of effort (brand building, customer satisfaction, product reliability etc. etc.).

Originally Posted by raj_5004

coming to the debate, i would anyday prefer a linea over the ANHC. Hondas & Toyotas are literally robbing indians of their hard earned money by pricing their low specced car so high, especially when there are better options in the market. why? because they know that indians are very BRAND conscious. they will prefer only a car with a good brand name, even though it means depriving themselves of some creature comforts or necessities that others offer at a LOWER price.

There are many amongst us who buy a Honda for reasons other than just the "H" badge. My pick within the C segment sedan segment would be the new Honda City. Evidently, even the market thinks so.

However, don't just think that Honda can get away with anything. Look at the Civic's sales for the last 12 months. And the Jazz is ridiculously priced, without a doubt.

Originally Posted by manij

I am also eager to understand why xylo's celebration is over.

Decrease in call center / commercial orders, striking workers, initial hype dying down (as is for every launch)....

Originally Posted by devarshi84

I guess Logan will be officially out of the market in the coming 6 months.

Rather than pulling it out of the market, why can't they just price it reasonably? I mean, you really can't get away with a high tag for what is so obviously a low cost cut-price car.