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Old 29th June 2009, 11:12   #31
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
I really don't see why Honda's overpricing is such an issue to many members here.
Oh! common McLaren! If you are interested in a toy and you want to own it sometime down the line but you see that the price of the toy is going up by the day ... will you not be concerned? Will you not be angry? Will you not be desperate? All of us want a premium brand (from the mass point of view) and for sure we want it to be worth the money, are not we?
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Old 29th June 2009, 11:48   #32
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If market accepts Honda Pricing, what should be the problem? Indian consumers aren't jokers. They don't pay premium of there is no reason. If people pay blindly for "H" Badge, why Altis sells more than Civic? why Honda couldn't sell new variant of Accord and CRV post price hike?

Answer is - In that price band there are better options available. When I decided to pick ANHC, i paid the premium because i had no other choice which could fulfill my needs. But had my budget is between 12 to 15 lac, i would have picked Altis...I am not a Honda fanatic, but i know how to pick my choice.

We should learn to respect others choice, everyone has their reasoning and it is valid if you think from their perspective.
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Old 29th June 2009, 12:00   #33
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While this initial booking number is not an indication of a model's success or failure, one can safely bet that HONDA knows how to turn its lauch bookings into a long term success. they may go wrong this time but time will tell.

This thread, like any other thread where HONDA is discussed is merely going into the loop of how a "phoren" company has come into INDIA and "fooling" us "innocent" INDIANS into parting with our "hard earned" money which we are "ignorant" enough to not know where to spend it...comon - give me a break - either all of you who have this view think - the Indian customer is an idiot who does not know which car to buy or you think that the chaps at HONDA INDIA are supremely intelligent/cunning people who can take all of us for a ride for the last 10+ years

lets wait for the monthly sales figures to come in and also spend our time discussing what kind of people are buying the JAZZ and more importantly WHY ? im sure there are more logical answers than what we think - ( i for one dont know why as yet because i have not seen the car but that does not mean i assume everyone who booked the JAZZ is a DUD )
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Old 29th June 2009, 13:07   #34
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Originally Posted by highsteem View Post
Oh! common McLaren! If you are interested in a toy and you want to own it sometime down the line but you see that the price of the toy is going up by the day ... will you not be concerned? Will you not be angry? Will you not be desperate? All of us want a premium brand (from the mass point of view) and for sure we want it to be worth the money, are not we?
Point taken . I agree it is hard seeing desirable cars going up the price ladder but Honda is not alone in this. Mercedes, Audi, BMW and even VW (Passat petrol with an antique engine and dull interiors anyone?) do this stuff. Yet Honda is villain number one in many automotive forums in India. I agree that the Jazz is overpriced but since it is a free market, I disagree with the notion that Honda is 'wrong' or 'bad' because of their pricing strategy. Its their choice to price their cars however they want to and we've got to respect that at some level.

Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 29th June 2009 at 13:11.
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Old 29th June 2009, 13:36   #35
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Default Jazz? Serious-ly?

I'm no expert when it comes to analyzing the capabilities of cars, but I did some 're-search' on the specs of Jazz, Getz, Swift, A-Star, and U-VA. Herez what I came up with:

Name:  Jazz.gif
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If you compare the nearest contender to Jazz - the U-VA - the difference is 20mm in length, 25mm in width, 40mm in height, 20mm in wheelbase, and 28mm in GC (Jazz is less here). Without considering the Power and Torque figures ('m no expert to comment on that) there is a difference of 2.1Lakh between the highest model of U-VA and lowest model of Jazz. Worth it? Not in my opinion!

Disclaimer: All specs taken from the Websites of the respective cars/manufacturers.
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Old 29th June 2009, 23:30   #36
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Without considering the Power and Torque figures ('m no expert to comment on that) there is a difference of 2.1Lakh between the highest model of U-VA and lowest model of Jazz. Worth it? Not in my opinion!
Nice piece of work. Now it looks astonishingly costly!
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Old 29th June 2009, 23:37   #37
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Wasn't the Sales of the Skoda Fabia very good in the First 3 Months Of Launch ?
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Old 30th June 2009, 00:03   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
I'm no expert when it comes to analyzing the capabilities of cars, but I did some 're-search' on the specs of Jazz, Getz, Swift, A-Star, and U-VA. Herez what I came up with:

Attachment 152851

If you compare the nearest contender to Jazz - the U-VA - the difference is 20mm in length, 25mm in width, 40mm in height, 20mm in wheelbase, and 28mm in GC (Jazz is less here). Without considering the Power and Torque figures ('m no expert to comment on that) there is a difference of 2.1Lakh between the highest model of U-VA and lowest model of Jazz. Worth it? Not in my opinion!

Disclaimer: All specs taken from the Websites of the respective cars/manufacturers.
agree with you on all the points. But you are still missing Grandepunto, Fusion(6.94), I20(5.95), Ritz/swift and Fabia. Consider all and jazz(7.24) is still more expensive than all.(modelwise)

Last edited by devarshi84 : 30th June 2009 at 00:06.
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Old 30th June 2009, 06:59   #39
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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
agree with you on all the points. But you are still missing Grandepunto, Fusion(6.94), I20(5.95), Ritz/swift and Fabia. Consider all and jazz(7.24) is still more expensive than all.(modelwise)

And I think these are current models in the international market (in response to someone calling ONLY JAZZ a current model):
i10, i20, Grande Punto, Ritz(Splash), A-star (Alto), Fabia(??), and INDICA??(Vista). Are all current cars internationally and priced significantly less than Jazz. i20/a-star are significantly smaller.

Jazz in India has less safety features (which cost real money) an smaller engine compared to USA and Europe, so any pricing in India cannot be compared to prices in USA (no apple for oranges please)

Let this thread remain a comparision with comments, instead of it becoming another Honda bashing forum (not that they don't deserve that, with their awful attitude).

Jazz is overpriced, PERIOD.

If some persons want to buy it, so be it. Mercedese sells the A class internationally, so....

If you get the money you demand, thats OK. This is an open market, pricing is by market forces, or you perish. Who are we to dictate what price you must price your goods to sell. Everyone wants maximum profits. What the buyer wants and is ready to pay for it is the final word.

We must also look at the Civic sales. 1st few months,, nearly 1800-2000 per month. NOW????

Last edited by alankarm@sancha : 30th June 2009 at 07:12.
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Old 30th June 2009, 07:16   #40
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Honda Press Release:

The completely-redesigned 2009 Honda Fit is set to go on sale August 26 with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) starting at $14,550, plus a destination and handling charge of $670, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today. The Fit Sport, equipped with additional premium features, is also set to debut with a starting MSRP2 of $16,060, plus destination and handling.
The Fit is designed to lead the subcompact segment with a quality feel and a multi-functional interior. The Fit has become more refined for 2009 with a sportier demeanor through improved suspension, steering and body rigidity enhancements; an improved rear Magic Seat; and a high level of standard safety equipment, including the addition of the Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure and front seat active head restraints. A new, more powerful 117-horsepower, 1.5-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine further improves the Fit's high-revving, fun-to-drive character. Send through Y!M E-mail this
2009 Honda Fit Price
"With the all-new Fit, Honda is offering premium features and advanced technology within a high-function, small vehicle package," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "Customers who choose the Fit are choosing superior refinement and premium quality, along with value and economy." Dimensionally compact on the outside with an overall length of 161.6 inches, the interior provides a surprisingly spacious passenger volume of 90.8 cubic feet and a rear cargo volume of 20.6 cubic feet. The seats offer multiple seating and cargo-carrying configurations - tall object mode,
long object mode and utility mode - in addition to the standard five-passenger mode.

An improved rear Magic Seat provides one-motion dive-down functionality without having to remove the rear seat head restraints to folds flat into the floor, creating a rear cargo volume of 57.3 cubic feet. Dual-stage, dual-threshold front airbags, dual front-side airbags with passenger-side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS) and side-curtain airbags are standard equipment on all models.

The engine produces 117 horsepower at 6600 rpm and 106 lb-ft. of torque at 4800 rpm. A 5-speed manual transmission is standard and a 5-speed automatic transmission is available.
Steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters allow for manual gear selection on the Fit Sport equipped with the available automatic transmission. The Fit equipped with the available automatic transmission achieves an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) city/highway fuel economy rating1 of 28/35 miles per gallon. The Fit with a manual transmission and Fit Sport with either a manual or the available automatic transmission achieve an EPA city/highway fuel economy rating1 of 27/33 miles per gallon.

The Fit comes with standard amenities such as air conditioning, an AM/FM/CD audio system with four speakers, MP3/WMA playback capability, Radio Data System (RDS), auxiliary audio input jack, power windows, power mirrors and power door locks. The Fit Sport adds alloy wheels, an underbody aero kit, rear roofline spoiler, fog lights, security system with keyless remote entry and cruise control. The Fit Sport audio system provides six speakers, a five-mode equalizer and a USB Audio Interface . For the first time, the Fit is available with the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System with Voice Recognition on the Fit Sport, featuring a 6.5-inch screen and more than 7 million points of interest. Models equipped with the navigation system also include Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA), also known as electronic stability control.

The front MacPherson strut suspension and torsion beam rear suspension settings are tuned to provide a sporty, solid and dynamic driving experience. Upgraded by 1-inch on each model, larger 15- and 16-inch wheels (Fit and Fit Sport respectively) are shod with 175/65 R15 84S (Fit) and 185/55 R16 83H (Fit Sport) tires. The standard anti-lock braking system (ABS) with electronic brake distribution (EBD) uses 10.3-inch ventilated discs in the front and 7.9-inch drums in the rear.


My comment: Means discounts on the 2008 or 2007 modl Fit, the ones we are getting here. Also see the difference in the features, especially the safety and engine.

Last edited by alankarm@sancha : 30th June 2009 at 07:24.
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Old 30th June 2009, 07:22   #41
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This can be seen as good news and bad news.

Now we can expect 15 lkh OTR hatchbacks from BMW( 1 series) , Merc in few years in INDIA.
I don't think the BMW 1 series will be that cheap, 15 lac OTR price is definately a low estimate. I would estimate it to be around 20-27 lacs for the entire range starting at 118i to the 135i. In the UK, the 1 series coupe and 5-door start at 18,000 pounds, which is roughly 20 lacs, and the 3-door version starts at 15,000 pounds, which is 17 lacs. However, I do not believe that BMW will be launching the 3-door hatch version in India, as it would be very unpractical for space-minded Indian consumers. They will come with the coupe and 5 door hatch.
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Old 30th June 2009, 08:34   #42
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agree with you on all the points. But you are still missing Grandepunto, Fusion(6.94), I20(5.95), Ritz/swift and Fabia. Consider all and jazz(7.24) is still more expensive than all.(modelwise)
Including the above cars in the comparison. A reason to do this is that I plan to buy a pre-owned Fusion, which now makes a whole lot of sense (specially considering the low resale value of this highly underrated car). I honestly see Fusion as a misfit in the above comparison. Scores in almost all parameters except mileage and of course at a higher price.

As obvious, the comparison however is purely based on tech specs and does not consider subjective factors, and thus is not a true representation of ownership.

Data source - New Cars, Used Cars, Buy Cars, Sell Cars, New Car Prices, Used Car Prices - CarWale.com
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Old 30th June 2009, 08:59   #43
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I just don't understand what is the problem if Honda Jazz is priced at certain level. If, I as a buyer, can afford and see value in it, then it is completely my choice to pay for the car/ brand/ or whatever and others should have no concern or reason to tag me as a crazy buyer. If they cannot afford or see value in it, then please go else where. Why crib about it? Why are we making choices and decision for the vast buyers of this country. I feel that every buyer has a right to make their own choice and I would expect everyone to respect that.

Honda had built an impeccable brand world over and hence people buy their products, even if there are cheaper options available in the market. Now that is the pricing power that a brand gives to their products. How many of you if are in the business of making prodcuts would not do the same? Please be honest, at least to yourself.

Both Honda and Toyota are highly reliable and to prove this, there is no better testimony that the US market. I personally know and seen many people in the US buy the luxury american/ german cars for their weekend party's or get-together and for their daily grunt travelling, they depend on their Honda's and Toyota's. These cars are quite reliable even after running for over 150K miles.
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Old 30th June 2009, 09:53   #44
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The major reason for heartburn is people have been saving to buy the mini H, may be upto 6L, if Honda asked them to stretch they would have stretched to may be ~6.5L instead now it's 8L. Huge disappointment to see its going out of reach. And the adv. "Why so serious" just mocks at the foolishness of dreaming about the H. Should have junked the dream long back.

Last edited by ownerofazkaban : 30th June 2009 at 09:59.
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Old 30th June 2009, 10:28   #45
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Originally Posted by narayan View Post

This thread, like any other thread where HONDA is discussed is merely going into the loop of how a "phoren" company has come into INDIA and "fooling" us "innocent" INDIANS into parting with our "hard earned" money which we are "ignorant" enough to not know where to spend it...comon - give me a break - either all of you who have this view think - the Indian customer is an idiot who does not know which car to buy or you think that the chaps at HONDA INDIA are supremely intelligent/cunning people who can take all of us for a ride for the last 10+ years

( i for one dont know why as yet because i have not seen the car but that does not mean i assume everyone who booked the JAZZ is a DUD )
Well some persons claiming to be Yogi's, Maharishi's, Astrologers etc, have managed to fool Indians for 20 years let alone 10 so it is not really impossible to do that.

What one must credit while acknowledging that Jazz is overpriced is that the marketing (brand building team) guys at Honda India is the best in Honda worldwide and probably the best among car companies in India. They do not enjoy the kind of image that they have in India worldwide, nor do they beat the Toyota in sales in any other place worldwide, but in India they lead Toyota today and since while.

So thought the products remain the same wordwide this can be only attributed to smart marketing and of course the ability to confuse and mislead for 10+ years.

One doesn't require the entire set of Indian's to buy in to your philosopy, just require as many convinced guys as the ones who actually buy their cars. (They also need to have the ability to withstande the oppostion from the rest of the Indian Car buyers and of course have a bit more money to spare than the general car buyer.)
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