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Old 1st July 2009, 12:40   #61
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It proves there are lots of rich people in India even though percentage wise they may be small but in country like ours it is still still for Honda.
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Old 1st July 2009, 12:40   #62
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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
I'm not quite convinced with this statement. Does it mean that if Honda were to market Indica Vista as its own product, it could've been priced 2L higher than it current price?
Sorry for harping on the brand value, but, just trying to emphasize the importance of brand value. Read this -

If a company has weak brands, it is automatically at a competitive disadvantage – price competition and cost cutting will dominate management thinking and actions; employee morale will suffer.

On the other hand, strong brands allow the owners to exert more control over margin and/or share in their targeted markets. Strong brands provide a platform for efficient new product launches. Strong brands reduce marketing and selling costs per sales unit. Strong brands, managed correctly, create pricing and margin advantages in the near term, build and protect near and long term enterprise market value for stakeholders including investors, owners, employees, suppliers, and the community.

Coming to your point, I would yes, provided they make the required changes to car (i mean everything in the car) as per their own standards and then can price it higher.
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Old 1st July 2009, 13:03   #63
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I am of thinking that , when we think of buying premium brand we only have the option of affording Honda here in India. Most of them cannot afford a VW ,Audi, Merc ,BMW .....
So when Honda prices little bit high we seem it not be VFM.
None of premium car is VFM for money then.
So if we cannot afford a Honda there is no point in bashing Honda , we have FIAT always .
Honda is NOT a premium brand. No where in the world is it a premium brand. You can call Acura a premium brand, but not Honda. Please dont compare Honda with the likes of Merc, Audi or BMW.
The problem with Honda in India, is that they try to price it like a premium brand, maybe to mislead the less informed buyer. And while doing this they dont even bring the best specs in their products here, i.e jazz with 1.3L engine instead of 1.5L, civic without steering controls etc.
I have been outside India and trust me what bothers a sane person is not that they are pricing it way above what it is worth, but it is about how much. Jazz, City and Civic is priced almost at around 50% more than outside India. Why is there so much difference with locally built models?
I am not complaining about Accord or CRV since they are CBU, and it is only expected to have a 105% duties attached to it.

Last edited by mxx : 1st July 2009 at 13:11.
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Old 1st July 2009, 14:48   #64
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Honda is NOT a premium brand.
Please let's not get into this argument. This is pure perception on the buyer's part. I will say that it is a premium brand and you will say it is not. These are opinions only and no conclusion can ever be established on this.

Having said that, the majority of Indian buyers do believe in Honda being a cut above the rest as seen in the sales charts and brand evaluations like JD Power. So if most of the customers think its a better brand, Honda will naturally price their products higher. Why? Because Honda's ultimate aim is not to give us affordable motoring. It is to make profits.


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The problem is that we feel Honda has overpriced the car and this is in general a wrong thing to do so.
Yes they've overpriced it but I would disagree that this is wrong in any way. You know what you're buying. You know what they're charging for it. And you know what the competition is offering too. A buyer who's spending 7-9 lakhs will do his research. If he does not, then that's not Honda's problem is it?

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So what benefit do you derive from "brand value"?
A lot of things. Higher resale is among the more tangible aspects. There are intangible feelings too. Surely, you'll feel better driving a Merc than a Maruti? Same logic applies here but to a lesser extent when we compare Honda to its rivals.
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Old 1st July 2009, 14:51   #65
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Skoda is also a VW brand at lower end of price bracket except India still they did very well . Brand is not about premium pricing alone . Shahrukh khan stutters still he get 2 crores for making an appearnace at a dinner and another 50 lacs if he stays for dinner . People pay premium for the percieved value I don't think Honda is charging a premium they are chanrging a rate at which they have margins better than competition . It is not their fault that Tata Motors has a loss to $600 million in trying to acquire JLR
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Old 1st July 2009, 14:55   #66
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Lots of arguments over Honda's pricing. I can see why someone is willing to pay 1 lakh extra for a Honda. The value is not perception. Its built over time by offering people more than what a average (even more than some of the premium brands mentioned here) car company would provide. They did not build the brand by pricing premium but by building cars which could command the premium.

They became premium in the Indian market because there were companies which could sell inexpensive cars undercutting Hondas. They do cost more than American cars in US, more than most Japanese cars, more than Korean cars.

Last edited by srishiva : 1st July 2009 at 15:02.
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Old 1st July 2009, 22:09   #67
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Originally Posted by muralisk View Post

Coming to your point, I would yes, provided they make the required changes to car (i mean everything in the car) as per their own standards and then can price it higher.
Which means brand value by itself cannot sell a product. The product still needs to be within the customer expectations. And this is where I was trying to say that Jazz will/might fail.
Well, both of us have our observations. Lets wait for the June sales figures.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 01:09   #68
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Please let's not get into this argument. This is pure perception on the buyer's part. I will say that it is a premium brand and you will say it is not. These are opinions only and no conclusion can ever be established on this.
I don't want to be rude or argumentative, but that's simply not true. Honda isn't considered a premium brand even in developing countries in S. America and Africa - please take my word on this.
In fact I can't think of a single other country where people attach so much cache to a Honda badge. Premium brands are brands like Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus, Jaguar, Range Rover, even Acura. (I'm not even talking about the high-end stuff like Rollers, Ferraris, Astons, Lambos, Porsches, TVRs). How on Earth would you slot a Honda into that? We might as well put Mahindra, Tata, and Maruti in there too.


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A lot of things. Higher resale is among the more tangible aspects. There are intangible feelings too. Surely, you'll feel better driving a Merc than a Maruti? Same logic applies here but to a lesser extent when we compare Honda to its rivals.
Regarding the resale, Marutis and Hyundais all have pretty high resale, as anyone who's ever sold an 800, Zen, Swift, or Santro has found out. That doesn't make them premium brands. And yes, my Dad had a Merc, and I felt better about driving that than I did a Maruti because it was a better car. Having driven the Jazz, I cannot say that when I compare it to some of the other hatches out there.
I agree with you, however, about the snob value about the badge.

Lets's be honest.... I readily acknowledge that having the H badge in this country means something. I used to own a 3.0L V6 Accord, so I understand completely.

You make some very good points. Honda's ultimate aim is to make profits, so if they can price their products exorbitantly and get away with it, good luck to them. My point simply is that the Jazz is overpriced. That's all I'm trying to say. It doesn't mean I think it's a bad car. In fact I think it's a good car that's suffering from an illogical price tag.

And yes, McLaren rules.

Last edited by ghostrider : 2nd July 2009 at 01:14.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 01:22   #69
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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
I don't want to be rude or argumentative, but that's simply not true. Honda isn't considered a premium brand even in developing countries in S. America and Africa - please take my word on this.
I never thought you were rude man. In fact, I quite like the fact that we can put our points across without ugly personal comments. But as for the Honda brand, I know its nothing in the rest of the world but it is a premium here. Because, the majority of Indian buyers associate better brand equity with Honda. And we both agree on this fact.


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.
But...I still think the Jazz is overpriced. That's all I'm trying to say. It doesn't mean I think it's a bad car. In fact I think it's a good car that's suffering from some illogical pricing.
Again, we agree here. I too think the Jazz is overpriced as I've said earlier. However, I do not have a problem with Honda for doing so. All I am saying is that they are a company whose aim is to make profits. As long as they do so without misinformation, cheating, etc. I am fine with their strategy. I resent the accusations that Honda are bad or wrong to do as they have done.

And on that note, perhaps we should be back on topic which is how many Jazzes Honda sold this week.

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Old 2nd July 2009, 09:30   #70
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Default 2032 dispatches of Jazz to dealers in June.

News item in today's Economic Times says 2032 dispatches of Jazz to dealers - not sure how many have been sold by the dealers and how many are still in their stockyard.

"Honda Siel Cars recorded a 6.5% increase in sales to 5,039 units on the back of the 2,032 dispatches of its newly launched Jazz hatchback to dealers. Its flagship brand, the City, continued to do better than rivals, selling 2,351 cars in June. Demand for Honda’s other brands, Civic and Accord, was sluggish with 451 and 205 sedans sold in June."

Source : New models, low rates drive auto sales - Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
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Old 2nd July 2009, 10:01   #71
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Originally Posted by uday.ere View Post
"Honda Siel Cars recorded a 6.5% increase in sales to 5,039 units on the back of the 2,032 dispatches of its newly launched Jazz hatchback to dealers. Its flagship brand, the City, continued to do better than rivals, selling 2,351 cars in June. Demand for Honda’s other brands, Civic and Accord, was sluggish with 451 and 205 sedans sold in June."
This should be worrisome news for Honda.

- It's flagship product City is steadily losing steam. At one time, NHC used to sell between 4000-5000, while AHNC sales are fluctuating between 2500-3500, peaking out once in March 09 before price hike. 2351 is not at all a flattering number by NHC standards. However, it is too early to say if it is going Civic way.
- Even if it is assumed that 2000 Jazz are actually sold by Honda, it has novelty factor and going by its price, number of buyers will still be limited notwithstanding craze of 'H' brand in India.

June 2009 may be a teaser for what is to come in next few months. I am sure, Honda management is watching it very closely.
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Old 7th July 2009, 16:07   #72
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2000 jazz booked in 20 days.

2000 Honda Jazz Booked In 20 Days


Now what happened to the 'source' who said only 300 bookings so far??

Again this only shows to prove, anything with the H badge sells. Sigh!
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Old 7th July 2009, 23:56   #73
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2000 jazz booked in 20 days.

2000 Honda Jazz Booked In 20 Days


Now what happened to the 'source' who said only 300 bookings so far??

Again this only shows to prove, anything with the H badge sells. Sigh!
They have a monthly target of 2000. Considering it is the first month and there has been some very heavy dose marketing: TV Print Hoardings it is nothing to cheer for them. Lets see the numbers after 3 months once the novelty factor has worn off. Even Fabia sales were good in the initial months.
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Old 8th July 2009, 01:04   #74
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Thumbs down Jazz will lose the shine ....

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Originally Posted by driftagain View Post
They have a monthly target of 2000. Considering it is the first month and there has been some very heavy dose marketing: TV Print Hoardings it is nothing to cheer for them. Lets see the numbers after 3 months once the novelty factor has worn off. Even Fabia sales were good in the initial months.

True. even Fabia was considered the best car and was selling well only in the begining and even though they had a diesel engine and winning so many awards its sales have dipped sharply .Jazz will be the same way ,only the initial hype will be there and after thats gone with the wind ...
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Old 8th July 2009, 01:09   #75
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Thumbs down That website looks sad

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Originally Posted by driftagain View Post
They have a monthly target of 2000. Considering it is the first month and there has been some very heavy dose marketing: TV Print Hoardings it is nothing to cheer for them. Lets see the numbers after 3 months once the novelty factor has worn off. Even Fabia sales were good in the initial months.
The initial response will be good for any product,its only after 2-3 months ,you will see the clear picture .Issues liek people complaining about the mileage, pick up or comfort.Till then fingers crossed ...

Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2009 at 12:19. Reason: Lets not belittle other automotive websites please
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